Sticks aren't swords...

BRAM · Post by **BRAM** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:46 pm

Lots of people like striking a stick like its a sword..and they say it represents a sword..
then in the context or drills or sparring, in vey next move after they cut, strike or block and opponent, they trap the opponent's stick ( pretending to be a sword) with their bare hand..lock it in place and then do some fantastic counter strike...
except IF the stick pretending to be a sword WAS a sword..they would have no hands or fingers left...

One should think about that..
A stick is not a sword..
trapping a bladed tool can have seriously disasterous results..
Yes, I know it can be demonstrated to work,, it works in practice, in class in non stress events..
But to train ones self to treat a stick and a blade as interchangeable can be a serious mistake.

just something to think about..

Bram

BRAM · Post by **BRAM** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 1:52 am

Thats correct..Guro dan as wel s others can stirp knives out BECAUSE they think of it as a blade..
Certain drills encourage the grabbing of the oopnents weapon to control it..in so doing..the training,,builds the confidence to hit the opponent, the quickly grab the tool...
Because of that I do not teach my blade students that drill..We know it..we do it so that we maintain the inregrity of Modern Arnis bibut we don;t dril it into muscle memory..
I taught a seminar and this one group kept grabbing my blade..
I had to tell them it was over..done..that if they grabbed the blade they wre dead..and it was such a muscle memory thing they couldn't stop grabbing for the blade..
because in memory it was a stick...

Gotta watch how we train..

Bram

Victor · Post by **Victor** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 5:51 am

Hi Bram,

You make a good point.

I do a little short stick from Bando's perspective, but mostly as a backup defensive capability.

The stick can parallel the knife/sword technique to a point, but really represents a different range of potnetial.

Self defense against bladed weapons, an art in which I am definately not an expert, takes careful trianing.

I once was able to attend a Dan Insanto clinic on just that, and he had a marvelous ability to strip knives out of peoples hands, and I'm quite sure it was based on decades of practice against blades, not sticks.

Just a thought,

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

I. Woolley · Post by **I. Woolley** » Fri May 30, 2003 6:16 am

yeah striking with stick is different than with a sword. I did some test cuting a week ago and realized my stick fighitng which was suposed to give me the skill to use a sword in cmbaot hindered me in cutting the targets 9plastic bottles filled with water) I either hit them at the wrong angle with the edge misalighned or with the wrong force knocing the bottles over.
the instant i switches to a base ball bat I killed each and every bottle I hit first time

Halford · Post by **Halford** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:47 am

I thought I'd get my two cents in now that I have found I can do so. The stick can represent a sword and that is why some sticks(in the Philippines) are carved and curved like swords so you won't forget to use the correct angles and hand/wrist placement. But, as noted by most everyone who has tried such, it is easy to forget that blades do cut, while sticks may not!(unless you use a sharp point for thrusting to certain soft spots on the body). Nothing new in what I am saying, of course, but as the entry before mine states, he had better luck with a club than with a blade on the items he was striking. The same holds true for sticks and blades. Blades may well cut but to be fully lethal they have to hit specific targets and usually penetrate the other's defenses,whether the others use sticks or blades in such defense. However, a strong, heavy stick, such as, bahi, can bash in the head, smash bones, and so forth and also deflect blades,etc. effectively. Well, happy head-hunting. Remember, if you don't practice, all the theory in the world won't help you. The real head hunters knew this and that is why some were able to actually cut off, lob off, heads. How many of today, including yours truly, could perform this feat even in the most optimal situations for such? Thanks for your time. Halford E. Jones, Executive Editor,Filipino Martial Arts Magazine at http://arnis.homestead.com

Arnisador84 · Post by **Arnisador84** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 9:55 pm

James Keating said at a seminar I attended that he prefers to teach blade before he teaches stick because you have to be more aware of the weapon. For example, vine disarms aren't as fun when your opponent has a blade. With a stick you don't have to worry about slashing your own arm open while disarming your opponent. For those of you who are familiar with centerblasting with sticks, I'm sure you've noticed how it doesn't directly translate to blade work. I personally started with stick and have since been taught blade application and it has worked out well for me, but I can definately see the benefit to his method.

Andrew Heuett

Halford · Post by **Halford** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:03 am

then there is disarming the blades with just the stick(s).In fact, a good deal is made of the concept in some groups of 'defanging the snake" but you can defang the snake in many ways with many weapons,ranging from a sledge hammer(if you are strong enough to wield one), a steel(if you can find one these days) garbage can cover,or a whip if used right,etc.,etc. But you are right in this that each master/group/expert/system teaches such in different ways, that is, the same thing is often taught but done differently,if you get my drift. We often talk about the same things but express the same thing with different words, different tones, different inflections,etc. Well, you know this. I am glad you started with the sticks,however,and then went to the blades. For many,the transition is not smooth,while for others, it is a piece of cake. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep training.