Throw like a girl, fight like a man.

Deep Sea · Post by **Deep Sea** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:58 pm

Thanks Dana.

In TKD there are a high percentage of females, much higher than in ma styles I've spent consideravble time with, and the suspicion is that is because there is less physical contact and they are not afraid of getting hit and when they do there's not much powerin it.

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:05 pm

the question: "Does learning Karate mean learning to fight like a man, even if you are a woman?"

personal opinion- nope- a "person" is learning a "style" and should fight the style-

but Dana brought up awesome points about what brings a woman to a fight- though I'd have to add- that "reasons" may change "after" learning and training. at least on the emotional and spiritual side. For me this is true at least. (i.e. what you perceive as a threat changes)

Also the point of "play-fighting" Dana is right on that part- but also- wanted to add that- for me- once I started training- (quick note- hub is also Sensei

) I found that play fighting has become really fun. Husband and I do so on regular basis- because we "can", we know "how" so we don't hurt each other. The play fighting goes verbal too- part of which turns into a kind of emotional conditioning- within a very secure unconditional loving relationship. You need to know that the other person is just as committed etc- and then while "verbaly fighting" it rarely escalates into something "real" with hurt feelings. Usually ends up in serious laughing at who can come up with the worst insult- (or best point to consider LOL) OR- who can get the other mad for "real" and ease it. What does this accomplish? Desensitization- "what get's me ready to fight" isn't being called a bad name- "have heard worse from hub"- see? Coarse it helps to know it isn't meant- plus the dicipline in staying calm and being able to react immediatley- it all changes within training- THAT'S the part I wish more women could understand and become enpowered to "practice" emotional defense- as well as spiritual defense- physical defense- i.e. Uechi can help in all these areas if you really apply yourself, and trust your partners etc-

The fighting like a man thing- it is also a measure of perception- fight like a women sensei says- ok, I'll be fluid, quick, diciplined, etc- fight like a man he says- I'll be strong conditioned- hearty- etc. (not to be taken that I think men can't be fluid or women aren't naturally strong- just examples)

Say Sensei tells a man- "train" ..... like a woman- what attributes would he apply? What picture comes to mind? Uma and her sword? or the woman across the street batting her purse against a would be robber?

Say Sensei says "train like a man?" what images would come to a woman?

half hard half soft- and both can be either and both should strive "for" both

any of this make sense?

basicaly the point is how you perceive a woman fighting is, and a man fighting- and if one or the other is better than the other.

I feel a competitive nature at times to be able to "take" as much as a man- which is kind of silly being that men and women's bodies are designed differently- but it's still there- and this part deals with conditioning-

It's all in where the man or woman takes their traing- or doesn't.

Thanks for letting me rambling and staying tuned in

LOL

Just my thoughts of coarse

Kerry

lookingglass · Post by **lookingglass** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:50 pm

I believe that woman are great competitors.
They bend the rules and I associate going up against the woman in this light. Have you ever trapped an angry cat. Square up with a woman and see what look you get. The women that I have seen angry to the point that they are going to fight scared me. The get so focused and are in a deep thought but ready to move and get you.
Men on the other had get loud and explain what they are going to do.
When Women is mad and gets quiet watch out.
For those of you that think this is sexest save it for another thread.
Watch men and woman basketball. The idea is to show off or make it big. It isnt just the game. Then watch the womans game and they just want to make a basket and win win win.
Men are always occupied by something other then the objective.
I understand that this is a broad statement ( no pun intended) but I am trying to explain myself in the best way possible.
If someone can relate then I am justified. I just hope no one takes offence to anything here>

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:56 am

LOL-
ya gotta love the "everything get's quiet"- when a woman yells- everyone shuts up thing LOL-

haven't seen anything offensive- and to take offense over an opinion is silly anyway-

Hope no one does that-

Men and women each have different things they can bring to any fight- I've seen men do the quiet thing too- and it's just as menecing- I've seen men who can't fight and claw eyes out (or attempt to) LOL-

One thing I find extremely interesting is watching the progressive training- the "competition" as it is. I've felt it- I've watched it- it's facinating. People and their reactions facinate me

Great topic!

Kerry

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:16 pm

Hi Kerry,

Great Post!

I think what you point up well in your post is that each person brings something different to every fight -- themselves. Each of us is a unique figher. We each have our own strengths and weaknesses. If we're lucky - we can figure those out in the safe environment of the dojo so we know what to look for if something terrible ever happens.

But it takes alot of courage to look at your skills with that much objectivity and say - this is what I really need to improve. It takes setting a bit of ego aside and really wanting your skills to be the best for you instead of building skills to please an instructor or only build your good skills that are easy to practice.

Looking glass has an interesting point in terms of what we expect will happen from fighters of different genders. But if you fight what you expect - you run the risk of losing what actually happens. Which is another reason to train with both genders - so that you fight a range of people, not just a range of men or a range of women.

Dana

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:16 pm

Thanks Dana- and of coarse excellent points made by you too. For some it also takes a measure of "humbleness" per se to take constructive critcism from Sensei- as well as fighters of the oposite sex too. That might be a valuable tool for teachers to try- having someone say- (for sake of all readers and skill levels-) do sanchin in front by themselves and have groups (depending on number of students) or each student see what that person can improve on... Suggestions from both genders- might bring in a mix of the fight like a girl-or man... definitions.... Almsot like "left handed hitters" in baseball and right handed hitters- both work and are valid, yet you have to have different techs to compete against them- I would think it's kind of the same thing in MA- just gender difference.

Take a reality senerio- say a strong healthy man is walking down the street- a MA gentleman- and some crazy lady who also has had some training- runs him down being chased by a store owner where she stole something from- or something happens so this crazy- not-so-unskilled woman is attacking the skilled man- it would be important for him to know- from his own collegues in the dojo- how to defend himself- against this crazy lady. In that case- it would be important to know "how to throw like a girl" as our bodies are different and he could apply the technique appropriate- espescially if she was just really going off on him-

Same the other way or a woman being attacked- she'd need to have enough power behind her to defend herself against another woman or man for that matter.

So both people's differences and strengths and weakness's are important to learn and be able to "fight within"...

more ideas

Kerry

lookingglass · Post by **lookingglass** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:19 pm

I learned something when in a class with Rose from Boston. She asked me to try and hit her in a demenstration of blocking. She did the uechi stare and for a molment I thought why is she looking at me like that. I felt like timon in the lion king. I am bigger but for the time I thought this might be bad. Confidence over whelmed me and she knew what she was doing because the foot work she had kept her away and the blocks were solid not just arm flings. I was impressed, she was the one that made me believe in uechi. In the beginning it looks stupid...

My teakwondo instructor is the fastest kicker and puncher and most agile and stretchy man I have ever know. He takes the discussion out of teakwondo not being effective in a street fight out of the eyes of any that see him preform.

The other side is my cousin was one of those tall slim girls. I had a bag out side and I worked on it all the time. Living in the country there is little to do that hasnt been done.

I showed her some kicks but that girl was able to kick harder then I expected. Her long slim legs exploded. I believe small guys can beat a big guy so a trained woman can defend herself even agains a bigger guy.

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:45 pm

What is the "Uechi-stare?"

Kerry

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:03 pm

"Glare in the Eyes with Fast Hands"

Is a nickname of Uechi on Okinawa. There isn't one prescribed Uechi glare - but rather a tradition in some schools of having a "fighting face" to focus the practitioner and unbalance the nerves of the adversary.

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:17 pm

Ahhh-

hm-

I'll have to ask hub if I "do" that LOL- Thanks D-

Kerry

Mary Chant · Post by **Mary Chant** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:55 pm

I have noticed an added benefit to the glare. Mine really results from an almost meditative type focus in which I'm not really looking at any particular part of the person, but almost through. It really helps me relax and have more appropriate responses to attacks, as well as helps my counters. When I can get in this zone, I don't over-block or over-distance, and my timing is better. I am frequently not in this zone, but having gotten there somewhat, I can sense where it is I am trying to return.

KerryM · Post by **KerryM** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:11 pm

Hi Mary- That seems a bit familiar to me!

Although I do look in the eye- I too get in a zone where- say if I'm working with a younger person that isn't used to eye contact- their smiles and or giggles don't get me going and they quickly realize this is "serious" time- it happens durring sparring and conditioning too. I also hit a different kind of zone while working on kata- alone- the zone goes "through" so to speak- but with a group or in the dojo- I "catch myself a bit more" and "react" over it- which I'm working on. (the no reaction part.)

Thanks for the post!

Kerry

2Green · Post by **2Green** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:42 am

My teacher has a most intimidating Uechi stare. He looks like a madman.
If I didn't know him I'd think I was dead already.
The transfixing stare has nature-based precedents too; there are various warnings about when and when not to fix your gaze on a threatening animal; there are references to the hurdle of your pet becoming comfortable with your gaze, and entering the trust phase.
I really do think that the intense eye-lock of Uechi is intended to intimidate the opponent. Sometimes in a blitz attack it's hard to keep from squinting or blinking, but I believe the eye contact is vital, and tends to distract or freeze the opponent.
It's well worth developing, in my opinion.

One more thing;
By looking straight ahead and keeping your eyes wide open, your peripheral vision is enhanced from all directions.
As soon as you start to "follow" (visually) a movement, your peripheral vision is lost in the "trailing" direction.

For example, if an opponent raises his hand above his head, and your vision follows that, you cannot pick up the low kick coming in.
Straight-ahead Uechi-stare would have recorded both.

OK, all the chemical-cocktail tunnel-vision exponents can shred me now!

NM