Daily training
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Daily training
How many pushups do you do each day? What is your daily work out routine like?
"When two tigers fight, one is always injured. The other is dead."
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
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Brian Barry
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Grove City College, PA
- Contact:
Pushups? Traditional ones... very rarely do I work them. They develop slow-twitch, endurance based muscle fibers and I try to do exercises that will work the fast-twitch fibers, giving mostly strength, power, and speed. To work the same muscles, I may do benching, or plyometric pushups, or sometimes I will work one-arm pushups (takes twice the force, much more strength-based workout).
I've also been working on the "Uechi-ryu pushups" that Bill showed at his seminar at camp this summer. Those help develop stability for the striking surfaces that we have.
Traditional exercises like pushups definitely have their great health benefits but may not be as beneficial for martial artists as we think, because of specialization (you can't train for both a marathon and a high jump and be successful at either). In fact, our doing such exercises, though they increase our muscular endurance, may actually be decreasing the overall power that we can generate.
It depends on your goals.
I've also been working on the "Uechi-ryu pushups" that Bill showed at his seminar at camp this summer. Those help develop stability for the striking surfaces that we have.
Traditional exercises like pushups definitely have their great health benefits but may not be as beneficial for martial artists as we think, because of specialization (you can't train for both a marathon and a high jump and be successful at either). In fact, our doing such exercises, though they increase our muscular endurance, may actually be decreasing the overall power that we can generate.
It depends on your goals.
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Stryke
The exercising thing can be important, and some students need it during class. I was instructed once to cut-back my exercise-phase of my program in half and have the students do the "necessaries" during the interlude before classes on their own. Human nature being what it is, most don't do essentials on their own and would rather stand around and socialize rather than maximize before classes.
How much time does it take to do, say 15 pushups and 25 situps for warmups? 3 minutes?
Frankly, I find the Uechi exercises by themselves good, but bland and NOT ENOUGH! Therefore, I, personally, augment them with a few other goodies whenever I run classes. I like situps, pushups, several varieties of crunches, squats, and a grab-bag of other sundrious muscle-burning jewels.
I find it all good for fightng. But, like written above, it all depends upon what you are after.
Brian, what's a Uechi-ryu pushup?
How much time does it take to do, say 15 pushups and 25 situps for warmups? 3 minutes?
Frankly, I find the Uechi exercises by themselves good, but bland and NOT ENOUGH! Therefore, I, personally, augment them with a few other goodies whenever I run classes. I like situps, pushups, several varieties of crunches, squats, and a grab-bag of other sundrious muscle-burning jewels.
I find it all good for fightng. But, like written above, it all depends upon what you are after.
Brian, what's a Uechi-ryu pushup?
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I've enjoyed sitting back here and watching others comment.
I can explain the "Uechi Ryu pushup", Allen, as it is a phrase I coined. I learned this exercise from David Lamb of Nebraska (a very close fellow karateka), who learned it from an Okinawan pangainoon instructor.
As the knuckle pushup is to classic, seiken-based, Okinawan karate, so this pushup is to Uechi Ryu. As I explain to people, the "big three" techniques of Uechi are the boshiken (thumb fist), shoken (little fist), and hiraken (flat fist). These three techniques put the major force on the first knuckle of the thumb, the index finger, and the middle finger respectively. Soooo... If you take those three digits and bend them at that knuckle, and make a kind of tripod with them, you can support your weight on these three digits in that fashion in the same manner that you support you weight on the two striking knuckles of the fist in the classic knuckle pushup. When you go up on them, these digits should be equal angle from each other, just like a tripod. As such, you practice bearing weight on those digits in a manner similar to the forces that would be put on those digits when executing the boshiken, shoken, and hiraken. And it seems to work well to strengthen those digits for both the "yang" application (thrusting) as it does the "yin" application (grabbing and tearing).
I'll be happy to show you how I do it next time I see you. At first it seems almost impossible to do. But once your fingers/thumb get stronger and the surfaces a little more conditioned, you may find you can do it with a pushup (and even on a concrete floor) like myself. It just take practice and a little guidance.
Junior
You've already received some very good comments. I'll add.
It is an instructor's prerogative to add exercise in a class, or choose just to teach martial arts techniques (both the physical and the "mindset"). As it turns out, the vast majority of people come into a martial arts class to "get a good workout." So if your instructor chooses to spend half the class doing the daily dozen, well that's because the market demands it. I'm not altogether against that - for a beginner's class. I used to treat my introductory college karate classes that way. I wouldn't stop for water break until the mirrors were fogged and we had at least 2 or 3 people on the sidelines about to yak.
If the style is taequondo or wu shu where the athletic is preferred over the practical and efficient, well you can get a pretty decent workout just by drilling techniques and stances ad nauseum. This is especially true for fancy kicking. However some styles like Uechi Ryu or aikido are all about learning to fight as efficiently as possible. That's great from a self defense point of view. But if you want some cardio or want to lose weight and impress the chicks on the beach, you're eventually going to be disappointed with your karate. If you aim to maximize your karate ability, you aren't going to do it with karate technique alone. One doesn't do complete body training by repetitive striking on air molecules in the room. Even with lots of partner work, sooner or later, you are going to find that the waistline increases right along with your ability - hence the stereotype of the sanchin practitioner with the beer gut. That's your body telling you that your karate is great but your conditioning is going down the toilet.
Brian already brought up a good point. A pushup is a nice exercise but... You're only going to get so much out of a pushup. In reality this is a resistance exercise, but it's missing the "progressive" aspect that exists in the weight room. Eventually your body will acclimate to what you do, and will refuse to develop any more - no matter how many of the buggers you do. In fact, if you do hundreds of them, then you are developing the body in the wrong way. Martial arts for self defense requires a body have as much fast twitch muscle as possible, and be capable of operating maximally in an anaerobic fashion. At that point where you are doing more than 10 or so comfortably, it's time to increase the resistance. But you can't do that with a pushup the way you can in the weight room.
BTW, there are exceptions to that "10 limit" rule. Abdominal (posture muscles), calf, toe, forearm, and finger elements of your body require more endurance and less explosive ability. But the major muscle groups should be capable of maximal explosions rather than the mindless, powerless "karate aerobics" or "kick boxing" that you see the airheads doing in modern gyms. Karate aerobics is an oxymoron.
Furthermore, a pushup is a "closed chain" exercise. By that I mean that there is little balance involved. A bench press on the other hand is an "open chain" exercise; if you don't focus on balancing the bar, it will fall. Open chain exercises are superior at developing attributes that can be realized on the playing field and on the street. So when you add in the balance and the variable resistance aspect, you have a superior exercise.
Pushups were done a lot in the past because that's all that was available. These days the pushup isn't quite a dinosaur; Brian already showed one example of it that taxes the fingers and thumbs in conjunction with demanding proper force delivery with the upper body. There's always some aspect of the exercise that can be emphasized that'll make it a nice supplement to a total training program. But you cannot expect to maximize your potential with calisthenics alone.
And I haven't even gotten into the plyometric side of things. Actually someone else aready did, with the clapping pushups. This gets into power development as opposed to strength development. Educated authors have written many books on just this type of training alone.
Here's my personal philosophy, since you asked. I will take a group of beginners and sweat them through the daily dozen because beginners walk in with little knowledge and little ability to motivate themselves. To some extent, they expect you to spoonfeed them their workouts.
Eventually though every serious martial artist will need to spend more and more dojo time doing technique and mindset work. It gets complex. This is great but... That means at a certain point the student must shoulder the responsibility of doing supplemental training on their own. This is why I never teach in any place that isn't a complete gym. I expect my students eventually to build their own training programs for their own needs. The nonkarate days are spent doing strength, power, speed, flexibility, and endurance work. And the longer you study, the more complex all that gets. That's good, because otherwise it can get very boring very fast.
- Bill
I can explain the "Uechi Ryu pushup", Allen, as it is a phrase I coined. I learned this exercise from David Lamb of Nebraska (a very close fellow karateka), who learned it from an Okinawan pangainoon instructor.
As the knuckle pushup is to classic, seiken-based, Okinawan karate, so this pushup is to Uechi Ryu. As I explain to people, the "big three" techniques of Uechi are the boshiken (thumb fist), shoken (little fist), and hiraken (flat fist). These three techniques put the major force on the first knuckle of the thumb, the index finger, and the middle finger respectively. Soooo... If you take those three digits and bend them at that knuckle, and make a kind of tripod with them, you can support your weight on these three digits in that fashion in the same manner that you support you weight on the two striking knuckles of the fist in the classic knuckle pushup. When you go up on them, these digits should be equal angle from each other, just like a tripod. As such, you practice bearing weight on those digits in a manner similar to the forces that would be put on those digits when executing the boshiken, shoken, and hiraken. And it seems to work well to strengthen those digits for both the "yang" application (thrusting) as it does the "yin" application (grabbing and tearing).
I'll be happy to show you how I do it next time I see you. At first it seems almost impossible to do. But once your fingers/thumb get stronger and the surfaces a little more conditioned, you may find you can do it with a pushup (and even on a concrete floor) like myself. It just take practice and a little guidance.
Junior
You've already received some very good comments. I'll add.
It is an instructor's prerogative to add exercise in a class, or choose just to teach martial arts techniques (both the physical and the "mindset"). As it turns out, the vast majority of people come into a martial arts class to "get a good workout." So if your instructor chooses to spend half the class doing the daily dozen, well that's because the market demands it. I'm not altogether against that - for a beginner's class. I used to treat my introductory college karate classes that way. I wouldn't stop for water break until the mirrors were fogged and we had at least 2 or 3 people on the sidelines about to yak.
If the style is taequondo or wu shu where the athletic is preferred over the practical and efficient, well you can get a pretty decent workout just by drilling techniques and stances ad nauseum. This is especially true for fancy kicking. However some styles like Uechi Ryu or aikido are all about learning to fight as efficiently as possible. That's great from a self defense point of view. But if you want some cardio or want to lose weight and impress the chicks on the beach, you're eventually going to be disappointed with your karate. If you aim to maximize your karate ability, you aren't going to do it with karate technique alone. One doesn't do complete body training by repetitive striking on air molecules in the room. Even with lots of partner work, sooner or later, you are going to find that the waistline increases right along with your ability - hence the stereotype of the sanchin practitioner with the beer gut. That's your body telling you that your karate is great but your conditioning is going down the toilet.
Brian already brought up a good point. A pushup is a nice exercise but... You're only going to get so much out of a pushup. In reality this is a resistance exercise, but it's missing the "progressive" aspect that exists in the weight room. Eventually your body will acclimate to what you do, and will refuse to develop any more - no matter how many of the buggers you do. In fact, if you do hundreds of them, then you are developing the body in the wrong way. Martial arts for self defense requires a body have as much fast twitch muscle as possible, and be capable of operating maximally in an anaerobic fashion. At that point where you are doing more than 10 or so comfortably, it's time to increase the resistance. But you can't do that with a pushup the way you can in the weight room.
BTW, there are exceptions to that "10 limit" rule. Abdominal (posture muscles), calf, toe, forearm, and finger elements of your body require more endurance and less explosive ability. But the major muscle groups should be capable of maximal explosions rather than the mindless, powerless "karate aerobics" or "kick boxing" that you see the airheads doing in modern gyms. Karate aerobics is an oxymoron.
Furthermore, a pushup is a "closed chain" exercise. By that I mean that there is little balance involved. A bench press on the other hand is an "open chain" exercise; if you don't focus on balancing the bar, it will fall. Open chain exercises are superior at developing attributes that can be realized on the playing field and on the street. So when you add in the balance and the variable resistance aspect, you have a superior exercise.
Pushups were done a lot in the past because that's all that was available. These days the pushup isn't quite a dinosaur; Brian already showed one example of it that taxes the fingers and thumbs in conjunction with demanding proper force delivery with the upper body. There's always some aspect of the exercise that can be emphasized that'll make it a nice supplement to a total training program. But you cannot expect to maximize your potential with calisthenics alone.
And I haven't even gotten into the plyometric side of things. Actually someone else aready did, with the clapping pushups. This gets into power development as opposed to strength development. Educated authors have written many books on just this type of training alone.
Here's my personal philosophy, since you asked. I will take a group of beginners and sweat them through the daily dozen because beginners walk in with little knowledge and little ability to motivate themselves. To some extent, they expect you to spoonfeed them their workouts.
Eventually though every serious martial artist will need to spend more and more dojo time doing technique and mindset work. It gets complex. This is great but... That means at a certain point the student must shoulder the responsibility of doing supplemental training on their own. This is why I never teach in any place that isn't a complete gym. I expect my students eventually to build their own training programs for their own needs. The nonkarate days are spent doing strength, power, speed, flexibility, and endurance work. And the longer you study, the more complex all that gets. That's good, because otherwise it can get very boring very fast.
- Bill
Pushups were done a lot in the past because
Save me from giving personal examples, I've long become weary of talking/writing of specific fighting techniques which tend to wear me out these days as much as the real thing once did.
I'd be happy for a Uechi pushup demo, Bill. Tape it, send it to Scott, and he can push it up on the forums so we can all learn graphically. I've done regulars, wrists, knuckles, fingertips, tips of two fingers and thumb varieties, but I don't ever remember that one.
As one ages with the worry of crippling arthritis it is better to let the young bucks twist and contort their bone ends to toughen them up.
While thinking of joints of the hand, Bill, what do you know about tearing the sheath that covers the tendon of the middle finger that is located in the palm?
Absolutely. But on the same token if you've ever fought cheek-to-cheek with someone, the exercises I mentioned, esp. pu and su are great.Pushups were done a lot in the past because ...maximize your potential with calisthenics alone.
Save me from giving personal examples, I've long become weary of talking/writing of specific fighting techniques which tend to wear me out these days as much as the real thing once did.
I'd be happy for a Uechi pushup demo, Bill. Tape it, send it to Scott, and he can push it up on the forums so we can all learn graphically. I've done regulars, wrists, knuckles, fingertips, tips of two fingers and thumb varieties, but I don't ever remember that one.
As one ages with the worry of crippling arthritis it is better to let the young bucks twist and contort their bone ends to toughen them up.
While thinking of joints of the hand, Bill, what do you know about tearing the sheath that covers the tendon of the middle finger that is located in the palm?
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
In a word, Ouch!!!.what do you know about tearing the sheath that covers the tendon of the middle finger that is located in the palm?
Best to see an orthopedist that specializes in hands and hand surgery. This may or may not heal itself, depending on the severity of the injury.
I'll see what I can do about taping the "Uechi Ryu pushup."
- Bill
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RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Junior: First, listen to Bill. He has taught me a lot.
Now, I'll give you a different perspective...
I get to train with the Marine Martial Arts Program at Quantico once a week. Their philosophy is to train near exhaustion. They want to be ready for the 30 second fight after an 8 hour march. So, most sessions begin with a truly draining event, such as a run through the endurance/obstacle course before getting into techniques. This might take more than 30 minutes before getting to about an hour of the 'fun' stuff. This is not always enjoyable, but training when tired, wet and muddy, wearing a heavy flak jacket, boots full of water etc., adds their reality to the mix.
Once a week we also do just techniques for about 90 minutes after a short warmup and stretch.
In the Uechi class of beginners I lead, after a short warmup I run them all through a sequence of stretches before getting into Sanchin. Since we have our club in a gym, most do some cardio and weight training. However, few do any serious stretching so I make sure they all know at least the basics of safe stretching.
In general though, I do my cardio and weight training on non martial arts days and encourage all students to do so as well. Also, I use dumbells as opposed to a bar or machines to maximize what Bill was pointing out about open chain exercises.
Rich
Now, I'll give you a different perspective...
I get to train with the Marine Martial Arts Program at Quantico once a week. Their philosophy is to train near exhaustion. They want to be ready for the 30 second fight after an 8 hour march. So, most sessions begin with a truly draining event, such as a run through the endurance/obstacle course before getting into techniques. This might take more than 30 minutes before getting to about an hour of the 'fun' stuff. This is not always enjoyable, but training when tired, wet and muddy, wearing a heavy flak jacket, boots full of water etc., adds their reality to the mix.
Once a week we also do just techniques for about 90 minutes after a short warmup and stretch.
In the Uechi class of beginners I lead, after a short warmup I run them all through a sequence of stretches before getting into Sanchin. Since we have our club in a gym, most do some cardio and weight training. However, few do any serious stretching so I make sure they all know at least the basics of safe stretching.
In general though, I do my cardio and weight training on non martial arts days and encourage all students to do so as well. Also, I use dumbells as opposed to a bar or machines to maximize what Bill was pointing out about open chain exercises.
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
Mr. Glasheen:
I've noticed a few recent references using the term "spoonfeeding"; I'm pretty sure I know the type that you are referring to.
However, most students trust their Sensei to tell or show them what they need to know, when they start thinking they themselves know best or what "feels right" to them; how can they be sure it IS right?
It's one thing to say "my left crescent-kick *****, I gotta work on that"; and another to say "I know best what I should be doing, because I know what feels right to me."
I can think of numerous times I got off on a wrong tangent which felt wonderful, only to be shown why it was not correct, based on information I had not yet been introduced to.
If I had accepted the "spoonfed" technique I would have been farther along!
It's a tricky balance.
More related to the thread; when I think back to my early days I wonder if the endurance and stamina drills we were subjected to were actually to weed out the ones who didn't really want to make the effort. Some certainly did drop out (actually, most!), so it did have that effect.
NM
I've noticed a few recent references using the term "spoonfeeding"; I'm pretty sure I know the type that you are referring to.
However, most students trust their Sensei to tell or show them what they need to know, when they start thinking they themselves know best or what "feels right" to them; how can they be sure it IS right?
It's one thing to say "my left crescent-kick *****, I gotta work on that"; and another to say "I know best what I should be doing, because I know what feels right to me."
I can think of numerous times I got off on a wrong tangent which felt wonderful, only to be shown why it was not correct, based on information I had not yet been introduced to.
If I had accepted the "spoonfed" technique I would have been farther along!
It's a tricky balance.
More related to the thread; when I think back to my early days I wonder if the endurance and stamina drills we were subjected to were actually to weed out the ones who didn't really want to make the effort. Some certainly did drop out (actually, most!), so it did have that effect.
NM
My dojo isnt in a gym, so we cant get any weight training done. I lift weights every monday, wednesday, and friday at school. Some times I go to a gym on Saturday. I'm kind of addicted to physical training and I realy enjoy lifting weights, but I know to much of it can be bad for you.
I have started to worry about getting arthritist when I get older. I already have developed some minor joint problems in both my wrists. Ever time I twist them you can hear a crackling or poping noise
. My right hip has also been giving me trouble lately. I guess it will be a while when I have to realy start worrying about these kinds of things.
The training we do at my school is preety tough. That's propably why my instructer told me people quit very often. He says he had to do even more when he was a young man so he expects us to torture ourselves
. His not all that bad though. The assistant on the other hand is crazy. He wants kicked me in my stomach to see if I could take it. Next thing you know I was outside trying to revive my lungs lol.
Thank you all for the helpful information.
I have started to worry about getting arthritist when I get older. I already have developed some minor joint problems in both my wrists. Ever time I twist them you can hear a crackling or poping noise
. My right hip has also been giving me trouble lately. I guess it will be a while when I have to realy start worrying about these kinds of things.The training we do at my school is preety tough. That's propably why my instructer told me people quit very often. He says he had to do even more when he was a young man so he expects us to torture ourselves
. His not all that bad though. The assistant on the other hand is crazy. He wants kicked me in my stomach to see if I could take it. Next thing you know I was outside trying to revive my lungs lol.Thank you all for the helpful information.
"When two tigers fight, one is always injured. The other is dead."
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
