Uechi-Ryu.com

I promised to post this letter here, so we might look at it from a VSD perspective.

We don't know Mills. Although he is listed as having posted 8 times recently, I was unable to find any of his posts, which doesn't mean anything. But we have found in the past when new people post using the language Mill's uses, they turn out to be Trolls most of the time.

As administator of the site, I am able to get a lot more information about posters than the moderators or registered users. This doesn't mean much more than that I have access to more information about them and their server and email.

The best way for a new poster to become acquainted with the rest of us, is to post a number of times, being very careful not to post something that looks like a Troll post. (Let me know if you need an example of this... got lots of them)

Once the group becomes comfortable about the new poster, he/she can start acting like the rest of us. This will mean putting a foot in our mouth once in awhile. Generally, we are a forgiving lot, so although feathers get rumpled, it isn't for long.

So, with this brief background, lets look at what has happened with this thread.

_________________
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"

Great Moment In Smackdown History

So your friend Chad, unprovoked and with ample opportunity to retreat if he was, inflicted bodily harm on another person?

And the reason we should be impressed is.....

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Mark Weitz

Joined: 27 Feb 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Toronto, Canada Have to say I agree with Gene on this one. The individual who started screaming at Chad was probably out of line but Chad clearly used excessive force in a situation that could've been resolved with a little vsd. Chad clearly knew he had superior fighting ability. It's no victory and certainly not worth bragging about when there's one person who has greater fighting experience and uses it an unprovoked manner. People do "bark" but that doesn't mean we lose self-restraint and re-arrange the person's face when other options are available.
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f.Channell

Joined: 21 Oct 1999
Posts: 831

Location: Valhalla Some coward sucker punched my nephew like that at a high school party.
He broke his jaw.

Cost him $2500 and boy it could have been a lot more.

lets say as an adult with an estate valued at $500,000 or so that punch could cost him the past 15+ years of his lifes work.

Would he still do it?

As Bob Dylan sang "when you ain't got nothin you got nothin to lose".
F.
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I only train on days that end with "Y"
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29 Feb 2004 11:39
gmattson

Joined: 16 Sep 1998
Posts: 3872
Location: Brockton, MA

Yea, but...
He will not be suffering from "loss of ego" because someone made fun of him! And those "high fives" from the peanut gallery must also be satisfying.

The tough guy salvaged his pride and escaped (hopefully) the long arm of the legal system.

No question, the jerk had it coming to him. But we have to ask ourselves... was it the right response?

Now, I have to ask the tough guy: Will you and your family feel safer following this incident? Do you think the jerk will accept the humiliation and physical assault gratiously and not look for payback? If so, do you think he will present as easy a target as he did the first time?

I hope he is a gratious loser, but the jerk doesn't sound like a forgiving type of person. In his mind (and thats what we must be concerned about) he was royally screwed and unjustifyably sucker punched. In his mind, he will become the victim and the tough guy the villian.

There aren't any simply self defense senirios outside the dojo. Only things we wish we could have done differently.
_________________
GEM
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29 Feb 2004 12:41

CANDANeh

Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 330
Location: Canada

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quote:
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my buddy Chad and I were outside his girlfriends apartment with a few friends and a few sweet girls we knew..
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When the guy came over he was out numbered, unlikely he will return alone next time.
Stuff like that happens and from what I read a less violent solution could have occurred. Hope it doesn`t have potential to escalate (revenge), he does know where the ladies live does he not?
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quote:
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outside his girlfriends apartment
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Leo

Gem, you do a great job of keeping the forums troll free!Makes this one of the better places on the web.

I still think Jeff, aka Mills75 is not a troll, most trolls don't introduce themselves and then wait weeks to cause problems. Here is a link to Jeff's first post.

http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.p ... ght=#86642

The Sensei has posted to these forums as well, I ran a search on the good doctor and was linked to an old junior black belt thread.

If the Sensei is real and the student is real I suspect Chad is real. If Jeff is not a troll, I wonder is Chad no longer a bully ?

Now I may just be a racist vigalante and things may just sail over my head, but I suspect if we insult people when they are newbies they won't hang around long enough for us to get to know them well and really insult them.

Laird

I don`think the responses were insulting especially considering the tone of his posting. I had no issue with his post and everyone responded (IMO) in a manner consistant with the initial post. Although, in hind site maybe questions could have been asked and letting the post sit idle for a short time he would have added more or tried to tone it down . He gave indication he was likely emotional about the issue when he stated I for one missed that clue. In person it is easiar to recognize the persons state and responses can be adjusted, reading it alone on our monitors we react to the content and can get emotionally high jacked (Van`s term I think). The internet is still a very new form of exchaging information and we are part of those pioneering, learn and move forward. Personally I dought his feelings are damaged (am I right Mills75?) and your post certainly was not ignored or without content worth exploring on different levels.

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Léo

VSD is not one of my strong points . My habit of freely expressing my opinions tends to add fuel to the fire in many cases.

What VSD techniques could Chad have utilized to diffuse this situation?


Laird

"Once the group becomes comfortable about the new poster, he/she can start acting like the rest of us. This will mean putting a foot in our mouth once in awhile. Generally, we are a forgiving lot, so although feathers get rumpled, it isn't for long. "

Is there any comfortable way to measure this?

"So chalk up one for the good guys"

Perhaps this more clearly states what he was thinking about during/shortly after the incident with the "loudmouth".

"What VSD techniques could Chad have utilized to diffuse this situation?"

I recall talk about a "stare"!?!? Is there a link or something i can refer back to for more information on this "stare"?

I recall talk about legally justifying himself by telling the "loudmouth" to not come closer. Although that may just be a legal justification and not really VSD.

I recall talk about "distancing" and "posture". I believe since the physical violence has not started yet, this may go under the VSD portion.

Any thoughts, comments, ideas, or additions?

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Richard
http://www.nskarate.tk

Hi; I followed the thread over here because I responded to the original one, and have some things to add.
I have little experience with "trolls", but Mills did not flame or insult anyone here, just presented an encounter story and crowed about it...as I said , this tone may have raised the hackles of more mature martial artists.
But there's no intent in that.

Even if the story was entirely made up; it is a very real scenario and provided us with some very useful analysis, so some good came out of it.
We're thinking, discussing, quarterbacking; our domain is self defense/ MA so I think the story is fair game.
A new poster may have been seeking positive reinforcement from us, which he may have gotten elsewhere, have you seen some of those MA sites?!

It takes a while to "get the tone" of this site, and quite frankly I think the maturity of it takes some by surprise.
I experienced this in racing, where some kid would come up and enthuse:" Hey mister, how fast, pedal to the metal?!" as if that were the be-all and end-all. But to him, it was. We who studied the art of racing could hardly tell him that most passing is done under BRAKING...

So what I'm saying is that the "MA forum mentality" out there might be several bars below what we're accustomed to here, and so I could see a person honestly posting a "victory story" thinking we would all appreciate it and slap him on the back with a "way to go, warrior!"

Just remember, he did not flame or insult anyone, and provided a very good scenario for us to discuss.

NM

I agree completely.

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Richard
http://www.nskarate.tk

I did a search for Mills 75 and could not find any post, even though he is listed as having made 8.

When I read the one you listed I felt pretty bad, since I obviously misread his post about Chad.

I'm still learning how to communicate via words, to people I've never met. Guess I'll be making a few mistakes.

If Mills is reading this, please accept my apology for jumping to a conclusion..... I'll "fix" the original thread to reflect this new information.

_________________
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"

It's all a part of being human. I am sure he will forgive you because I am sure that he too is human and makes mistakes.

_________________
Richard
http://www.nskarate.tk

I have a post that relates and since I put it on Van’s forum I felt appropriate to post it here too.

In this particular case had I been in a less kind and gentler mood I cannot say I would not have drawn the same conclusion George did. The presentation was inflammatory and it was not a stretch to this it was troll bragging.

Anyway since this was related to people getting bashed (although I would have considered George’s post more of a little head thunk “what were you thinking” kind of thing) and there was an editorial on that issue I thought it only appropriate to post this here as well.


I once told Laird that the forums are kind of like written conditioning. You may take a beating and bruise in the beginning but you toughen over time and you learn how to deal.

I have been involved in the forums longer than many here today and not as long as some still around. I have seen the “wars” erupt and calm down. I have seen the disagreement and fragmenting of friendships and the rebuilding. And I have been involved in them as well.

I know there are some out there who criticise and disparage the forums because they portray to others that these wars are all that are here. This has kept more good people away than what actually takes place.

Most often I find that these are people who have never bothered to get involved and participate. Some have never even posted. Odd don’t you think? Higher moral ground to sit back and criticise I guess. (Not!)

We are here to learn and to discuss. I think it was Bill that said we should be able to articulate why we do what we do and how we do it. These forums teach us a great deal in that regard.

What I do not understand is those that hold strong opinions but do not want to come on these forums and represent them? Shockingly they then complain that their views are not being expressed. HUH! Do they want others to represent them for them?

I do know some have shied away from posting because they got taken to the mat, but I still think they should get up and post. And I do not think people should get blasted for disagreeing, that is what makes for good discussion.

However, I am not sure that is the issue, I think some expect everyone to agree with them and not question what they post. When questioned they take offence. It should go without saying the questioning should be polite.

The one comment I cannot understand is: “Most teachers are afraid to voice their opinions.” HUH? What about all that self confidence we get from Karate? How can they teach self confidence when words scare them off? This is troubling to me. (Hope that comment didn’t scare anyone off. Joke folks.)

Uechi is known for its conditioning. We love it. We love taking the shots and growing stronger and learning how to deliver back. So get some forum conditioning. Get involved and tell your side. Do not expect people to bow down and agree with you, but post well and do some convincing.

So just post, deal and have fun.


Like in this case we should have had a clarification post from Mills75 by now.

"The one comment I cannot understand is: “Most teachers are afraid to voice their opinions.” HUH? What about all that self confidence we get from Karate? How can they teach self confidence when words scare them off? This is troubling to me. (Hope that comment didn’t scare anyone off. Joke folks.)"

What better way to show confidence online than to voice your opinion!

"Uechi is known for its conditioning. We love it. We love taking the shots and growing stronger and learning how to deliver back. So get some forum conditioning. Get involved and tell your side. Do not expect people to bow down and agree with you, but post well and do some convincing. "

Conditioning is another way of adapting. To condition yourself in forum use is a way of learning how to adapt.

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Richard
http://www.nskarate.tk