At our most basic level humans like to avoid pain and seek pleasure. So in a dojo this can translate into always training inside your comfort zone.
You always pick another woman to train with.
You always avoid that big guy that kicks too hard
You avoid asking your conditioning partner to go harder
You don't call people on their transgressions if they cross boundaries.
If you're the only woman in your school it can be even more difficult to try and move outside the confort zone and niche you've established for yoruself.
However - for you women who train in with other women - do you find yourself going a little easier on your women training partners? Are you fostering a habit of comfort or a habit of pushing beyond your confort zone?
Comfort Zone
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Dana Sheets
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Comfort Zone
Did you show compassion today?
Good point, Dana. I haven't analysed my behavior at all when it comes to training attitude with other women. You know, on sober consideration, I think I do go softer. I'm also more likely to praise. I was training with a young woman just a few weeks ago, someone I hadn't met before. She impressed me with the fact that she could commit and put a little force behind her technique. I told her "You're good!" with a big grin, and I was so happy to train with her. If she was a man, I doubt I would have noticed, much less said anything, because that's more typical for a man to train at that level if not harder. Don't know if it's good or bad, but there's definitely a difference in treatment. I wonder if she was going soft on me too. Her dad borders on brutal and I know she trains with him at home. I bet she could have worked a lot more aggressively too. Mutual easy going?
Kami
Kami
One seed, many lives.
Hi Dana, I'd like to make a comment on the concepts of "training" and "comfort zone."
My view is that as long as one is in one's comfort zone, real training cannot take place.
Those who are "trained" are "conditioned by practice to perform while not in their comfort zone."
So it follows that, as uncomfortable as it may be, the real training takes place once you leave the comfort zone. After all, you won't be in the comfort zone when you need your training.
In sales training there is a concept: " take the familiar into the unfamiliar."
This means you explain something in terms the prospect can relate to, then bring them into the new concept.
Here's an example.
"MIDI is like the old player piano. Remember the old perforated rolls? Those are like MIDI Files. They need a piano to make them play. That's your computer."
This concept is easily understood because its starting point is one of familiarity.
Likewise, I think that training has to start with the familiar (drills, Kumites,bunkais) and go to the unfamiliar ( free form, chaos, battle).
The first are in your comfort zone, but the real "training" takes place in the latter, outside the comfort zone.
Hope this does not hijack the thread.
NM
My view is that as long as one is in one's comfort zone, real training cannot take place.
Those who are "trained" are "conditioned by practice to perform while not in their comfort zone."
So it follows that, as uncomfortable as it may be, the real training takes place once you leave the comfort zone. After all, you won't be in the comfort zone when you need your training.
In sales training there is a concept: " take the familiar into the unfamiliar."
This means you explain something in terms the prospect can relate to, then bring them into the new concept.
Here's an example.
"MIDI is like the old player piano. Remember the old perforated rolls? Those are like MIDI Files. They need a piano to make them play. That's your computer."
This concept is easily understood because its starting point is one of familiarity.
Likewise, I think that training has to start with the familiar (drills, Kumites,bunkais) and go to the unfamiliar ( free form, chaos, battle).
The first are in your comfort zone, but the real "training" takes place in the latter, outside the comfort zone.
Hope this does not hijack the thread.
NM
Not sure, thinking aloud, hope you all bear with me ...
My first thought with applying some of what 2Green said was 'okay, what if I took the familiar, training with men, and applied it to training with women which would take a familiar act onto unfamiliar ground.' What would be the result? Would I then end up doing some of the things that I can't stand when men do to me to the women in the class? Is there some functionality to having a certain level of comfort zone between women? We do learn differently than men. Does working within the comfort zone help to some extent?
Kami
My first thought with applying some of what 2Green said was 'okay, what if I took the familiar, training with men, and applied it to training with women which would take a familiar act onto unfamiliar ground.' What would be the result? Would I then end up doing some of the things that I can't stand when men do to me to the women in the class? Is there some functionality to having a certain level of comfort zone between women? We do learn differently than men. Does working within the comfort zone help to some extent?
Kami
One seed, many lives.
Not sure how this will relate, but I wish to pass on what I have observed with my daughter's training.
For her kata and kumite classes she pairs up usually with one of the 3 other girls in her class (she's 11), but she also attends a third, optional class on Friday nights which concentrates on free form sparring. For that class she prefers to train with the boys. Only 1 or 2 other girls attend this session, as it seems to appeal more to the boys than the girls, but Elisabeth doesn't seek them out as partners nearly as often as she looks for a boy partner.
When I asked her about this one day she confided in me that the girls don't attack her nearly as aggressively as the boys. However, to get the boys to step up to the plate as it were she needs to pop them a few times, just to let them know she won't break if they respond in kind. Initially the boys are tentative, which I can understand as most of us have been conditioned from earliest age that we don't hit girls. Thats a hard thing, especially for a pre-teen/teenager to reconcile when it comes to sparring.
I wonder what you all would suggest is the more appropriate approach for her? Should she continue to seek out the boys primarily as sparring partners? Or is this giving her a false sense of achievement as they may very well be holding back too much, where the girls might not?
For her kata and kumite classes she pairs up usually with one of the 3 other girls in her class (she's 11), but she also attends a third, optional class on Friday nights which concentrates on free form sparring. For that class she prefers to train with the boys. Only 1 or 2 other girls attend this session, as it seems to appeal more to the boys than the girls, but Elisabeth doesn't seek them out as partners nearly as often as she looks for a boy partner.
When I asked her about this one day she confided in me that the girls don't attack her nearly as aggressively as the boys. However, to get the boys to step up to the plate as it were she needs to pop them a few times, just to let them know she won't break if they respond in kind. Initially the boys are tentative, which I can understand as most of us have been conditioned from earliest age that we don't hit girls. Thats a hard thing, especially for a pre-teen/teenager to reconcile when it comes to sparring.
I wonder what you all would suggest is the more appropriate approach for her? Should she continue to seek out the boys primarily as sparring partners? Or is this giving her a false sense of achievement as they may very well be holding back too much, where the girls might not?
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be.
A kind of "re-post"...
Of course, many of us must have a level of comfort in our dojo surroundings, especially kids.
I didn't mean to imply that kids should be stressed in class beyond their ability to participate.
I was leaning more towards adults learning more when stretched outside their comfort zone. I hope that clarifies the intent of my post.
NM
Of course, many of us must have a level of comfort in our dojo surroundings, especially kids.
I didn't mean to imply that kids should be stressed in class beyond their ability to participate.
I was leaning more towards adults learning more when stretched outside their comfort zone. I hope that clarifies the intent of my post.
NM
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
There's an interesting dynamic between what science/education says about learning and what the body needs to perform.
For children they need a safe, non-threatening environment in order to learn effectively without underlying stress.
However - you can learn things very quickly under extremely stressful situations. Just look at US military style boot camp. People learn TONS in 6 weeks - and they are often far from relaxed while doing it.
So dojo learning seems to need to happen at several different levels. I mean - if my dojo was a place where I would be totally stressed and uncomfortable every time I went in the door I wouldn't go there to train. Part of my reasons for training involving having fun and getting exercise.
So while I'm stretching I don't need someone over me shouting at me to stretch harder.
However - during the last three sets of hojo-undo if I've kept my arms up the entire time and they're starting to burn it can be beneficial to have someone up in front of me pushing me to keep my hands up.
There are many ways you can invite students and your training partners to move out of their comfort zone. The problem is when and where to do it.
You might think you're pushing someone out of their comfort zone in sparring and they think you're trying to beat the living hell out of them.
For children they need a safe, non-threatening environment in order to learn effectively without underlying stress.
However - you can learn things very quickly under extremely stressful situations. Just look at US military style boot camp. People learn TONS in 6 weeks - and they are often far from relaxed while doing it.
So dojo learning seems to need to happen at several different levels. I mean - if my dojo was a place where I would be totally stressed and uncomfortable every time I went in the door I wouldn't go there to train. Part of my reasons for training involving having fun and getting exercise.
So while I'm stretching I don't need someone over me shouting at me to stretch harder.
However - during the last three sets of hojo-undo if I've kept my arms up the entire time and they're starting to burn it can be beneficial to have someone up in front of me pushing me to keep my hands up.
There are many ways you can invite students and your training partners to move out of their comfort zone. The problem is when and where to do it.
You might think you're pushing someone out of their comfort zone in sparring and they think you're trying to beat the living hell out of them.
Did you show compassion today?
