hate anger rage

[Akil Todd Harvey]

No need to put this on the front page, only a few Iraqis getting mistreated..........

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... ines-world

BAGHDAD — U.S. military police stacked naked Iraqi prisoners in a human pyramid, and attached wires to one detainee to convince him he might be electrocuted, according to photographs obtained by CBS News that led to criminal charges against six American soldiers.

CBS said the photos, shown Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II," were taken late last year at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, where American soldiers have held hundreds of prisoners captured during the invasion and occupation of Iraq.    
      
In March, the U.S. Army announced that six members of the 800th Military Police Brigade faced court martial on charges of abusing about 20 prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The charges included dereliction of duty, cruelty, assault and indecent acts with another person.

In addition to those criminal charges, a military administrative investigation has also targeted seven in the brigade's chain of command, including Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the military's top prison official in Iraq, who has been suspended pending the outcome. The administrative probe found the prison to be lacking in command policies and training, said an official familiar with the investigation.

No criminal charges have been filed against the command staff. The investigation recommended administrative action against several of the commanders, which could include punishments as serious as relieving them of their commands, said the official, speaking on condition on anonymity.
When the charges were first announced, U.S. military officials declined to provide details about the evidence. But Wednesday, at a news briefing in Baghdad, Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt said the investigation began in January when a U.S. soldier reported the abuse and turned over evidence that included photographs.

"That soldier said, 'There are some things going on here that I can't live with,' " said Kimmitt, who also confirmed that CBS had obtained the photographs.

One picture shows an Iraqi prisoner who was told to stand on a box with his head covered and wires attached to his hands. CBS said the prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted. In another photo, naked prisoners were stacked in a pyramid, and one man had a slur written in English on his skin.

The Army ordered an investigation of the actions of 17 soldiers with the 800th Brigade, based in Uniondale, N.Y. Ten were investigated for possible criminal actions. Six of those soldiers were charged in March.

"We're appalled," Kimmitt said. "These are our fellow soldiers, these are the people we work with every day, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down."

[benzocaine]

Amazing what stress will make people do.

[cxt]

Akil

Non-combatants from a number of nations are kidnapped and abused. Not to mention a couple of our own military.

You have nothing to say.

People are murdered and then their bodies burned.

Again silence from you.

Iraq CHILDREN are blown up in Fullujah, by insurgents.

You say nothing.

Nations such as Iran funnel insurgents into Iraq to kill Americans--and get the people of Iraq killed.

Again silence.

But what gets you say something is the US military TRICKING someone into giving us information.

Please note that NO-ONE WAS ACTUALLY SHOCKED in this incident.

So according to you attempting to trick an enemy is now a crime of some sort??

Oh, and a slur was actually marked on the body of man that was trying to kill our soldiers.

Again, the most horrible of crimes!!!

Yeah, that makes good sense.

So in your world Akil, tricks and slurs rank with blowing up children, mutilation of bodies, kidnapping and murder??

Shame on you.

[benzocaine]

Imagine what "uncle Sadam" would have done to people he wanted to interrogate.

[Valkenar]

Just a small point

Again silence from you.
...
You say nothing.
...
Again silence.

Akil points out things that nobody else on this site is pointing out. It wouldn't be very useful for him to post yet another "look what bastards these Iraqis are" since there's already plenty of people posting that. But who else is posting about this kind of thing?

Of course it's horrible that our soldiers are being killed or abducted and tortured or mutilated. But that doesn't make it any less horrible that our soldiers may be doing things that can be called "cruelty, assault and indecent acts with another person".

On this site, everybody already hears and acknowledges the atrocities committed against us, but nobody (for the most part) seems to want to acknowledge atrocities committed by us.

[cxt]

Valkenar


Couple of problems.

I can't speak for anyone but myself here but I am pretty aware of what is going on in the world.

Don't really need Akil to scan the web for me.

Additionally, as I understand it, this is a DISCUSSION forum. Not a "lets just post articles from the web" news board.

In my opinion Akil has no interest in doing anything but use the good graces of this board as a venue to spout his anti-western bigotry and venom.

His approach is totally one-sided--as I pointed out.

More to the point I really don't think we are approaching this issue from the same place.

You say :

"Of course its horrible that our soldier are being killed abducted or tortured and multilated but that does not make it any less that our soldiers may doing things that can be called "cruelty assualt and indeceent acts with another person."
Everybody already hears and acknowlegdes the atrocites commited against us but nobody seems to wnat to acknowledge the atrocites committed by us."

Problem is that the word "atrocites" should be reseverd for, you know actual atrocites--like flying planes into buildings full of innocent people, the genocide in Rwanda, Bosina, Kosavo, the invasion of Kuwiat, the rape of Kuwaiti women, the delibrate murder of Iraqi children by insurgents.

To use the word "atrocites" to describe the writting (sp) of words on a persons body or the tricking of a person that was trying his damnedest to kill you just a few hours previous is an insult to the victems of ACTUAL atrocites.

Neither of the two incidents reported seem to qualify as atrocites by either my dictionary or by common understanding of the term.

It is also notworthy that you choose to place the abduction, torture and mutilation of human beings on the exact same moral/ethical level as the writting (sp) of words on bodies.

I simply can't do that--not logicial and does not pass any standard of reasonabilty.

[Bill Glasheen]

On this site, everybody already hears and acknowledges the atrocities committed against us, but nobody (for the most part) seems to want to acknowledge atrocities committed by us.

Justin, how long have you been reading this forum? Apparently you've missed many posts where a number of folks (myself especially) spoke of the checkered past of the U.S. vis-a-vis Iraq, dating all the way back to the Iranian hostage crisis. Apparently you've missed my posts referring to Saddam's actual source of WMD technology, and his killing a million (1,000,000) Iranians with our blessing and support.

You and Akil are free (and welcome) to post here. In fact I've lost a few friends on these fora because I have defended the rights of certain individuals to express "unpopular" points of view. (Gun control, gay rights, etc.). Just be careful about the blanket generalizations.

Cxt, you are welcome to take on Akil. Just be respectful. We all benefit from a civil discussion. And of course I expect the same from Akil.

And Akil, I too would prefer to know what YOU think. Most of us read the news. I'm glad you brought the topic up. But please tell us how you feel about it, and how you think this fits into the big picture. I'm all ears.

- Bill

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Among the reasons that I have decided to ignore the vast majority of what CXT says is that he is personalizing this to the extreme.......

Among the reaons that I have decided to utilize the published words of others to make my point is that I find myself having to defend far fewer off-base accusations.........personal attacks, etc......for daring to post an unpopular opinion......

Pres. Bush has denounced the treatment of Iraqi prisoners held captive. And it sounds as if one of our posters (whom I will not name since I am busy ignoring him) is in support of how we are allegedly treating the Iraqi prisoners........

Interestingly, their has been little discussion of the relation of the three words that appear in the title of this thread........hate anger rage

Hate

To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for

Intense animosity or dislike
An object of detestation

Anger
A strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.

Rage

Violent, explosive anger
A fit of anger.
Furious intensity

Further notes:

denote varying degrees of marked displeasure

Rage and fury imply intense, explosive, often destructive emotion.

hate: a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action
Strong aversion coupled with desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed

(Definitions courtesy of dictionary.com)

Is our hate for those who mistreated the four supposed "civilian" contractors greater than those who might hate us for......?

1) Invading their country and not leaving promptly when the dictator was overthrwon

2) Dropping massive bombs on people's houses and killing their relatives, friends, etc. via smart bombs, and stupid bullets

3) Any one of a long list of reasons that the possessor of the hate may find significant but that any of the readers or posters of this forum might not relate to

Hate is just the adult form of anger.......Nurture it, feed it, give it lots of sunlight and fresh soil and a simple thing that angered you can now grow into full blown hatred, but only if you and I encourage it.........

My point, I have been accused of not having one, is that both sides have a responsibility to not let their anger build into a festering hatred that lingers.

Another conflict that comes to mind is Vietnam (note, not a war, by definition). Interesting to me because thirty years after that conflict ended, I was witness to considerable numbers of Vietnamese Americans and Vietnam veterans (some what of a misnomer since how can you be a veteran if you did not fight in a "war", right?) attending higher education at the same location. I thought to myself, how ironic that God (or fate or luck or whatever you believe in) put these two groups of people, formerly bitterly opposed to each other in such close proximity..........

Just as I predicted the outcome of the Iraq invasion to not have been the thunderous success as predicted by the White House, I also predic that in as little as ten to as many as thirty years from now, American Veterans of this conflict will be coming into contact with Iraqi's who eventually emigrate to America. On that day and at that time, it will be interesting to see who is still hanging on to their anger....Who is still nursing and encouraging their anger to become a full blown hatred..............Most folks, to my experience, will come to grips with their negative emotions and not be ruled by them.....

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer. --1 John iii. 15.

[benzocaine]

Akil,

We are not dragging through the streets the bodies of our enemies. We are not tying their limbs to bricks and throwing them over telephone wire like an old pair of sneakers. We are not gloating and cheering on the streets.. in fact we debate weather our presence there is right or not.

For those (insert explative, slur, whatever ) who did what they did.. yes, I reserve anger, hate, and rage, with NO Apolagy.

[cxt]

Akil

I find it predictable, transparent, and more than a little sad that after all your posts and venom you would seek to label me as "personalizing" this issue.

You--yourself have clearly "personalized" it quite enough for both of us.

No action is trivial enough to escape your constant "drum beating"--as long as the action is made by a western power.

No crime is too great, no atrocity too horrific, no murder to bloody, no rape violent, no kiddnapping to bad, no abuse vicious, for you to:

A- Overlook it
B- Pretend it never happend
C- Act as the apoligist (sp) for it.--as you do above.

As long as its NOT a western nation that commits it.

As has been repeatedly pointed out--on this topic even--all the horrors commited by eastern nations are beneath your comment.

Classic avoidence and clearly (yes this is a pun) transparent as the actions of a bigot with a cause.

I have no problem with how people that try and kill us are treated.

I consider it foolish to extend a level of conduct to enemy that is not returned.

I consider it foolish to deal in a "civilized" fashion with murderous thugs. Its seen as weak--and weakness in war leads to more NOT fewer deaths--on both sides.

I consider the current problems in Iraq to stem directly from our attempts NOT to be seen as "the bad guy", our overwhelming attempts to limit civ casualities etc.
In a very real way our trying NOT to be ogres is killing us.

As evil, and descpicable as Saddam was/is he did seem to have a handle on the level of violence required to deal with fanatical enemies.

It will be interesting Akil to hear you opinions of the new plan to use some former Saddam generals to "police" Fallujah and "restore order."

Since these guys are Iraqi citizens and Iraqi nationals, taking up arms in their OWN country to put an end terroists actions, you should have no problem with what they are going to do--right????

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Usually I want you, the reader, to connect the dots, but in this case, I will connect the dots as I see them, lest the fringe element define me maliciously.

We don't torture the prisoners, I guess, instead we just pretend to torture them.

I have heard that it had been policy in many cases for our troops to bring dogs through people's homes during searches, despite a social taboo among more conservative Muslims against dogs, especially in the home.

Not to mention all the civilian casualties and or deaths over the course of the campaign in Iraq.

A people subjugated, no matter how benevolently, eventually grows tired of the daily humiliations, the misunderstandings, the mistrust, and some fuel their anger until it simmers into hatred which may lead to rage. Indiscriminate violence is the predictable eventual outcome of such military occupations throughout the course of history, and me pointing that out doesn't make me a supporter of indisciminate, wanton, and/or despicable violence (I abhor it).

Anger, hate, and rage can grow exponentially on both sides as we have seen in Iraq lately.

Both sides are angry.

Both sides have people among them who let their anger simmer into hate.

And both sides will have those among them who act on their hate, usually in a fit of rage, occasionally planned with forethought and cunning, but more likely spontaneously. How do you stop spontaneous violence? The Isreali solution is collective punishment. We seem to wholeheartedly support collective punishment, except those weakkneed liberals, and we don't even bother to pretend that debate is allowed when the subject comes up.

Support our troops or be labled a traitor!

A cycle of violence has formed in Iraq and we will remain in denial as we can comfortably ignore the reality of those who serve there in our name right now. Pray for all of us, that we can come to understanding and see that hostilties will not a good solution make, no matter how righteous we feel.

[Bill Glasheen]

Akil

Just a few issues with things you have posted.

1) The conflict in Iraq isn't just Iraqis and coalition forces any more. As a matter of fact, insurgents and elements of al quaeda (predominantly extremist Muslim I might add...) have intentionally been murdering all parties - including and especially Iraqis - in order to create chaos to achieve their ends. To illustrate my point... I was in Phoenix this week, having dinner with a native of India. She told me one of the wonderful benefits of the invasion of Iraq was that all the Muslim terrorists that terrorized and murdered people in her country have left to make trouble in Iraq. Interesting...

2) Why do you find it surprising that Vietnamese came to this country?

Another conflict that comes to mind is Vietnam (note, not a war, by definition). Interesting to me because thirty years after that conflict ended, I was witness to considerable numbers of Vietnamese Americans and Vietnam veterans (some what of a misnomer since how can you be a veteran if you did not fight in a "war", right?) attending higher education at the same location. I thought to myself, how ironic that God (or fate or luck or whatever you believe in) put these two groups of people, formerly bitterly opposed to each other in such close proximity.

Oh come on, Akil. Read your history. Right or wrong, the U.S. presence in Vietnam had nothing to do with us "bitterly opposing" the Vietnamese. It had everything to do with protecting the South Vietnamese from having a Communist government imposed on them. You know, that model of government that's done so well in the Soviet Union... BTW, those Vietnamese that are here came over to escape invasion by the Viet Cong. I can't tell you how many Vietnamese I personally know that had fathers who were kept in Vietnam so that they could be "re-educated" (tortured or killed) by the invading North Vietnamese.

Once again, read your history and get your facts straight. Yes, Vietnam was a disaster for many reasons. As a matter of fact, I was one individual who opposed our presence over there (the way we were over there). But it's obvious to me you have no grasp whatsoever of the history of that country and its generations of conflict.

3)

Invading their country and not leaving promptly when the dictator was overthrwon

That's a violation of international law, Akil. Perhaps you weren't around when a number of us were discussing that. As a conquering army, we are required by law to stick around until a stable government and economic system is in place.

And to do otherwise - after what happened to Afghanistan with the Taliban - would be incredibly stupid. Perhaps you also failed to study what happened when the Soviets invaded that country and then left...

Dropping massive bombs on people's houses and killing their relatives, friends, etc. via smart bombs, and stupid bullets

Was that the military objective? Did you and I watch the same war? Are you aware that this was one of the most publicized wars in human history? Aljezeera is finding it hard even to make stories up to stir up hate for the West.

That's a pretty extreme statement, Akil. This is one where you'd best cite the examples. Otherwise it doesn't seem worth refuting on face value.

CXT wrote...

I consider it foolish to deal in a "civilized" fashion with murderous thugs. Its seen as weak--and weakness in war leads to more NOT fewer deaths--on both sides.

I have to disagree with you on this one, CXT. Be careful what you wish. One of the reason foreigners are commiting atrocities to civilians of all nations is because they WANT the U.S. to act in an extreme fashion, and have it all on Arab T.V. Best to act the way we want to, rather than react to the actions of extremists and anarchists.

I happen to think it's stupid to fight atrocity with atrocity. We'd best consider the long term consequences.

However... I have no problem with us blowing up a few mosques where murderers are hiding and storing weapons. This is in violation of the Geneva convention, and there is no international law against us considering such facilities as military targets.

But ONLY on our time, ONLY when we want to, and ONLY the way we want to. NEVER when and how they want us to...

- Bill

[benzocaine]

I have heard that it had been policy in many cases for our troops to bring dogs through people's homes during searches, despite a social taboo among more conservative Muslims against dogs, especially in the home.

I understand pigs can be trained for that sort of thing too Seriously though Akil, I am sure these dogs were there to do something other than to defile the houses of those poor poor folks, like sniff out explosives!! We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't on that one Akil.

A cycle of violence has formed in Iraq and we will remain in denial as we can comfortably ignore the reality of those who serve there in our name right now.

We should never comfortably ignore those who live in that day to day hell.

Akil,

I strong part of me wants to lash out at you and accuse you of being Anti American, but the more I read you last post the more I see a person who is simply against the war. You were against it from the begining. I see a person who is frustrated by mainstream America's lack of understanding of Muslim culture.

Let's hope and pray that we can get a democratic republic in there so we begin to pull some of our troops out... problem is, those power hungry assholes will continue to try and rule through force and intimidation huh? This is where I believe you need to reassess your thinking Akil. These men are not honorable muslims. They are pigs and dogs who lack honor. They hide behind Mosques, women and children. How can the crimes of 6... I said SIX American soldiers compare to the crimes these people have done?

I've done News searches Akil, And Tony Blair and GW Bush both have vowed to punish any soldier guilty of war crimes.

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Several accounts describe infliction of physical and mental pain. A sergeant charged in the investigation says intelligence officers encouraged such actions.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... -headlines

WASHINGTON — At least one Iraqi prisoner died after interrogation, some were threatened with attack dogs and others were kept naked in tiny cells without running water or ventilation, according to an account written by a military police sergeant who is one of six U.S. soldiers charged in a growing scandal over prisoner abuse in Iraq.
The account of Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick II, along with interviews Saturday with other soldiers in Frederick's unit and senior U.S. and military officials, paints a portrait of a prison that spun out of control last fall as thousands of captured Iraqis poured into its razor-wire confines.   
   
 In some cases, as few as a dozen U.S. soldiers were responsible for overseeing more than 1,000 prisoners. Escape attempts were common. Mortar fire from insurgents rained down on prison grounds, killing U.S. guards and Iraqi prisoners.

Relatives of Frederick, who faces court-martial in connection with the alleged sexual and physical degradation of prisoners in Iraq, gave The Times a copy of the account that they said was handwritten by Frederick shortly after his arrest in January.

Frederick, 37, wrote that U.S. intelligence officers and civilian contractors who were conducting interrogations urged military police at the Abu Ghraib prison west of Baghdad to take steps to make prisoners more responsive to questioning.

Military intelligence officers have "encouraged us, and told us, 'great job,' that they were now getting positive results and information," he said in the neatly written 10-page document that covers a two-week period of last fall.
One U.S. official said 50 to 100 Iraqis had died in U.S. custody during the last year, victims of mortar attacks, heat exhaustion, wounds suffered in battles and attacks by other prisoners.

Although Frederick said one prisoner died after interrogation, the official said that so far no such allegations had been independently substantiated. He said the deaths from other causes amounted to a small percentage of the estimated 35,000 Iraqis who had spent time in U.S. detention centers.
Still, he said that the abuse allegations and other evidence showed that Iraqi prisoners had suffered under U.S. custody.

"There was a mentality that the people we're in charge of are not humans," the U.S. official said. "That's not consistent with our values. The people who were doing this lost it."

The New Yorker magazine reported Saturday that it had obtained a 53-page U.S. military report that concluded that Iraqi prisoners had been subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the prison, which before last year's U.S.-led invasion had been Saddam Hussein's primary killing ground for political enemies.

The author of the report, identified by the New Yorker as Army Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, said it appeared that some of the inmates had been beaten and sodomized, perhaps with a broomstick or a chemical light.
The revelations came as officials of the U.S.-led coalition governing Iraq rushed Saturday to try to stem outrage in the Arab world over photographs showing abuse of prisoners. The photographs, which first appeared on the CBS program "60 Minutes II" last week, shocked Arabs and Westerners alike, and brought strong condemnation from President Bush.

In one shot, naked Iraqi men with hoods are piled on top of one another. Behind them, U.S. soldiers grin and flash a thumbs-up. Another shows an Iraqi simulating oral sex on another Iraqi man. A third shows a hooded man standing on a box with wires attached to him. He was reportedly told that he would be electrocuted if he fell.

Those images were joined Saturday by photographs appearing in the Daily Mirror in England that allegedly showed British soldiers beating, urinating on and pointing a pistol at a hooded Iraqi prisoner. The bleeding and beaten Iraqi was later tossed from the back of a truck, his fate unknown, according to an account in the paper.

"Let me make it quite clear that if these things have actually been done, they are completely and totally unacceptable. We went to Iraq to get rid of that sort of thing, not to do it," British Prime Minister Tony Blair told BBC television.

An Iraqi Governing Council member demanded a thorough investigation of the coalition soldiers. Besides Frederick, five other soldiers face court-martial charges. Military officials declined to identify those charged in the case. However, Frederick had identified the soldiers to relatives as: Sgt. Javal Davis, Pvt. Jeremy C. Sivits and Specs. Sabrina Harman, Charles Graner and Megan Ambuhl.

Eleven others have been suspended as part of an administrative investigation. Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who ran the prison last fall, has been suspended from her command.

Pentagon officials said Saturday that they were pushing to open all evidentiary and court-martial proceedings to the public. So far, military officers have recommended that three of the soldiers be court-martialed. Such recommendations are the military equivalent of indictments. Three other soldiers are still awaiting hearings. All are being held in Iraq.

"We're trying to move on this as quickly as we can," said Col. Jill Morgenthal, a military spokeswoman. "We're taking this very seriously."

The most serious of the charges mentioned in Frederick's account involved an Iraqi who died, allegedly after an interrogation session at the prison.
A CIA spokesman confirmed Saturday that the agency's inspector general had been working with the Defense Department on two investigations, one of which involved the death of a prisoner in U.S. custody last fall. A second inquiry involved allegations of abuse of prisoners by U.S. soldiers.
The CIA spokesman said he could not confirm whether the death investigation involved the same prisoner to whom Frederick referred. Frederick reported that interrogators "stressed him out so bad" that the man died.

No CIA officials have been mentioned in connection with the death, the spokesman said.
"We don't have any direct involvement in the abuse incident," said Bill Harlow, the agency's spokesman.
Bill Lawson, Frederick's uncle, said his nephew had told him that the interrogators in the incident in which the prisoner died were civilian contractors.

The Times reported Saturday that at least two private contractors helped in interrogations. One was CACI International, a Virginia-based firm that helps intelligence officials in Iraq at the prison. Sources said another was Titan Corp., a San Diego-based company that provides interpreters.
CACI confirmed that its employees had been questioned about events at the prison, but said it knew of no allegations of abuse against them. Titan declined to confirm that its employees worked in the prison.
Lawson said Frederick had told him that the civilian contractors doing interrogations were the ones most likely to order harsh treatment of prisoners.

"My nephew was in theory running [part of] the prison, but in reality, the contractors were," said Lawson, who is acting as the family's spokesman.
The accused soldiers, most of them reservists from the 372nd Military Police Company, have told relatives and military investigators that they lacked proper training or guidance in handling the Iraqi prisoners.

They blamed a failure of leadership that led to lax or nonexistent standards and pressure from the top to produce results in the intelligence-gathering efforts that were screening thousands of Iraqi detainees.

Frederick wrote that he saw naked Iraqis crammed into cells that were 3 feet by 3 feet, unable to lie down. He said he was instructed to place inmates in isolation cells without water or toilets for as long as three days at a time. Sometimes, inmates were handcuffed to the cell door or made to wear female underpants.

"I questioned this and the answer I got was this is how military intelligence wants it done," Frederick wrote.

He also described incidents in which he believed force was used without justification. In one case, a man who appeared to be mentally disabled was shot with nonlethal bullets while standing near a fence, singing. In another case, a man with a broken arm was put into a headlock and choked, he said.

Frederick questioned his commander "about how prisoners were treated," he wrote. "His reply was 'Don't worry about it.' "

Lawson said his nephew was struggling to figure out how to satisfy demands to soften up prisoners and, in so doing, had decided that pictures of naked and humiliated Iraqis were the most humane way to apply psychological pressure. Lawson explained the photos by saying that they were taken once to show to Iraqi prisoners to frighten them as they headed into interrogation.

Lawson said that Frederick had served for 20 years in the National Guard and had worked for six years as a correctional officer before going to Iraq, once receiving a commendation for preventing a prisoner from committing suicide.
"Nobody in the chain of command told him what to do or how to do it," said Lawson, an Air Force retiree. "He was just instructed to go down there and do what the civilian contractors told him to do."

Another soldier in the unit — who is not among those accused — also said there had been a lack of training. He said Iraqi insurgents frequently fired at the prison, which is near the tense city of Fallouja. Prisoners were constantly attempting to escape. The prison was dangerously overcrowded.

"There were no [standard operating procedures] at the prison and no training," said the soldier, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "The conditions were very bad, and we were grossly undermanned."

Frederick's journal also opens a window into the intense fear that surrounded work at the prison. He said Iraqis, used to abuse under Hussein, realized that the Americans would not stoop to torture, and thus showed the guards little respect.

He also talked of constant petty corruption among Iraqi correctional guards, who sometimes smuggled in weapons and helped friends. And there was the constant fear of attack.

"I have been so paranoid since my arrival here with all the combat happening here," he wrote toward the end of his account. "It has gotten to the point where I can't rest. Just a voice or object dropped makes me jump."

[Bill Glasheen]

No doubt there is no excuse for this treatment. No excuse.

But Akil, think how this plays on the street in Iraq. This is a step up from what they were accustomed to under the Baath party.

Nevertheless, I am proud to live in a nation where such inexcuseable behavior by a handful of members of my military makes it as headline news in the press. And the editor isn't shot.

And I am happy you feel free to express your horror and frustration.

- Bill