hate anger rage

[jorvik]

Bill.
I did not say the Scotts and the Irish were the same. What I said was that the IRISH in Northern Ireland are IRISH because they have lived in Ireland for a couple of hundred years. In much the same way that the people on the Borders between England and Scottland who were deported to Australia a couple of hundred years ago are Australians
I hope you understand that one. In the same way that I am English although my great, great grandparents came from Eire on the one side......and A pub in Edinburgh on the other.
In the same way that you are American

[Bill Glasheen]

Yep. Can't argue.

And we can also say that the Yugoslavs are the Yugoslavs because...



Your point is technically correct, jorvik. However it does manage to miss the reason as to why the IRA existed in the first place, and protestants are in Northern Ireland living quite uneasily amongst the Catholics.

I am indeed an American, jorvik. However the Native Americans have a thing or two to say about that. My great grandfather William McCarthy had some interesting stories to tell my dad. Between his experiences in the civil war and that in the west, it sounded a bit like Dances with Wolves. If it weren't for smallpox, STDs, and alcohol, we (transplanted Europeans vs. Native Americans) would probably have been at each other in larger numbers, and for much longer.

And yet we retained the rich heritage. I believe it was the Navaho Nation language that allowed us to communicate w/o code breaking during one of the great wars. Nice to have retained that ethnic/cultural detail, no? Centuries of history preserved gave us an advantage as a nation when freedom was at stake.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Cody writes

Indeed. There is much difference in the denizens of Scotland and Ireland . . . mostly in the type of blood in the alcohol streams (For the record, I'm half Cajun, half Scotch on the Rocks )

They say man invented whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world.



- Bill

[jorvik]

quite wrong Bill....entirely the other way around
Catholics live in fear of the Loyalists, as do the ira...there are many more protestants than catholics in Northern Ireland.....the British army went in to protect the Catholics because the Ulstermen Loyalists were indiscriminately murdering them ....and of course the ira.
personally I don't think that they should have......and all that American support from Noraid bought the ira guns to kill women and children, in Iniskillen, to destroy Canary warth and parts of Manchester and Warrigton killing small children in the process. Now you've got your own ira to contend with, but they are prepared to blow themselves up to kill you.
What do they say " What goes around, comes around"

[cxt]

Jorvik

You did however claim that the "Picts wiped out the Scots"

Wrong, The Scots actually absorbed the Picts.

I also don't think that America, as a matter or policy had anything to do with gun shipments to the IRA.

We were pretty much against the IRA and its bombings/kidnappings and assorted killings.

Could you be a bit more specific in exactly how you think we supported the IRA and how that links to why people are blowing up Americans??

[jorvik]

CXT
...........Noraid, perhaps

[Stryke]

The Irish and the Scots vary greatly

you see the Irish love to drink and fight

the Scots are just better at it

[Guest]

the Scots are just better at it

You got that right Marcus!

[Guest]

the British army went in to protect the Catholics because the Ulstermen Loyalists were indiscriminately murdering them... What do they say " What goes around, comes around"

It certainly would seem so Jorvick. Seems to me It was the British who put all those Protestants there in the first place. All those 'Ulster Scots' were deported from their home land in the 1600's to solve the "Catholic problem." Rather nice of the English to go in and try and clean up the mess they started in the first place. Things appear to have gone full circle.

Laird

[jorvik]

Laird,
Yeh but they have still lived there for a couple of hundred years .that's their home,
I think that we may be talking on different plains...ever gone into a Scotts bar and asked for Beer " Aye.......we have that........BUUt non of yer weak stuff mind ...Carlsberg special brew at 9 and a half %.......
and the Irish..ever drunk REAL Guiness from Ireland.....
Nice people .if you don't get on the wrong side of them.
Ulstermen are something else

[Bill Glasheen]

I'll concede the drinking to you lads. However it's been a while since I've seen a world class boxer with a Scottish name...



Perhaps with sports like the caber toss and such, you Scots suffer from delusions of grandeur.

- Bill

[cxt]

Jorvik


Thats why I am asking.

"Noraid" is not term I know--at least being a monday its not a term that easily comes to mind.

Could you be more specific??

[cxt]

Jorvik

Never mind, looked it up.

Seems some Irish Americans are being investigated for money that was claimed to be for charity actually went to fund same IRA folks.

Even if half true should send several folks to jail--hopefully for good.

Still, hardly what I'd call goverment sponsership.

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Group says hate crimes and harassment in California tripled in 2003 from previous year.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... california

By Teresa Watanabe, Times Staff Writer

Reports of hate crimes and harassment against Muslims in California tripled last year from the year before, the highest number ever recorded outside the immediate aftermath of Sept. 11, according to a report to be released today by a national American Muslim organization.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations reported 221 incidents in 2003 of anti-Muslim bias in California, ranging from the severe beating of a Yorba Linda youth to vandalism of a San Luis Obispo mosque. Nationally, the council reported 1,019 anti-Muslim incidents, representing a 69% increase.

The report attributed the increased incidents to several factors, including a "lingering atmosphere of fear" stemming from the Sept. 11 attacks, fallout from the Iraq war, anti-Islam rhetoric from some conservative religious leaders, increased reporting of incidents by communities to the council, and U.S. anti-terrorism policies, which Muslims allege adversely affect them.

"Things are getting worse and worse," said Mohamed Nimer, the council's national research director. "This has become part of our normal life — coping with increased attacks and vulgarities toward our faith and our life."

Researchers at other organizations have also documented the adverse impact on Muslims since Sept. 11. They include the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission and the state Senate's Office of Research, which last month issued a draft report concluding that Arab, South Asian and Muslim immigrant communities had borne a "substantial share" of scrutiny by federal agencies.

Last year, the U.S. Justice Department's internal investigators found "significant problems" in the way its employees had treated immigrants detained after Sept. 11, including engaging in verbal and physical abuse of suspects and causing excessive delays in their release.

A Justice Department spokeswoman contested allegations of mistreatment, however. "The department's actions taken to deter and dismantle future terrorist attacks are fully consistent with the constitutional laws of the U.S.," said spokeswoman Casey Stavropoulls. She added that the department was combating anti-Muslim discrimination and had conducted more than 560 investigations of bias since Sept. 11 — one-fourth of which had resulted in federal, state or local prosecutions.

The new report by the Islamic council also scrutinizes government actions toward the Muslim community. Although anti-Muslim incidents reportedly took place at schools, job sites, restaurants and on the streets, the largest number of complaints both statewide and nationally involved government anti-terrorism policies. In California, those cases accounted for 41% of all complaints.

The most controversial government program involved the required special registration of noncitizen male visitors from two dozen mostly Muslim nations and North Korea. All told, more than 82,000 men were registered, including 13,000 who were ordered into deportation proceedings, almost all of them for visa violations, according to reports by the council and others. Muslims argue that the program amounts to selective persecution of their community.

The report also said that Muslims have been disproportionately affected by the U.S. Patriot Act, which was passed after the Sept. 11 attacks to broaden the government's investigatory and surveillance powers. Among other things, the act requires financial institutions to verify the identities of new customers and report any suspicious activity.

The council report cited cases of Muslims whose bank accounts were closed without any explanation. One Delaware woman, a U.S.-born citizen, reported that her credit card application was rejected after she heard the cashier mention the Patriot Act in her conversation with the bank processing her request. The woman's name was not listed on the Treasury Department's list of suspicious persons.

The cases reflect "the attitude within government that holds Muslims in general suspect," the council's Nimer said.

At the same time, however, Muslims in California report several positive steps to improve ties with law-enforcement and other public agencies. Most notably, the FBI's Los Angeles office has recently formed its first Muslim, Arab and Sikh advisory committee and plans to hold its first meeting later this month.

FBI spokesman Matt McLaughlin said his office started the 25-member committee, which is expected to meet monthly, to develop better communication with the three communities and help promote better understanding about FBI policies and procedures. He said the Patriot Act in particular has been misunderstood and unfairly blamed for abuses.

"People have a right to know what we're doing and why," McLaughlin said. "There's nothing sinister about what's being done."

Among other things, the Islamic council's California office recommended that the state Legislature conduct a public inquiry into the impact of post-9/11 policies on the Muslim community and that government agencies provide sensitivity training about Muslims to their employees.

"We want to find solutions to these problems," said Ra'id Faraj, spokesman for the Islamic Council's Anaheim-based Southern California office. "From our end, we'll do whatever it takes."

[Guest]

Nice to have a free news service, any one know if there are any free services that are unbiased.