Thigh Kicks

[gmattson]

Bill... Please edit or delete any possible misunderstanding regarding negative comments pertaining to any style of martial arts.

I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but some of what you said in this thread could be mistaken as an insulting reference towards Muay Thai.

Because of the recent controversy over perceived insults of Uechi-ryu, I wish to publically demonstrate my intention to enforce forum rules fairly and uniformly.

Although you attempted to clarify your remarks, there is still a chance that a Muay Thai practitioner, reading this thread will take the comments as an insult.

Thanks,

[Bill Glasheen]

This thread got pretty lengthy in the back-and-forth on the whole Muay Thai discussion. I'd probably have to delete a dozen or so posts to avoid the confusion, etc. Should I go that far? Not a problem for me, but I don't want Stryke thinking I'm censoring him. His points were well taken.

- Bill

[gmattson]

to go back and simply delete the offending reference. What was said after that, referring to that comment can be left alone. Most of the regulars here will know what was being discussed.

Thanks,

[Bill Glasheen]

Done...

But the statetment was quoted several times and discussed later in the thread. Not sure what to do there. Just leave it?

BTW, Florida must have been nice...

- Bill

[gmattson]

To be on the safe side, delete all references to the offending remark and any discussion relating to that remark. That will solve any possible confusion . It will also re-focus the thread on what the thread originally intended to cover. I know it will take a little time, but I would appreciate your doing it.

Thanks again.
Oh yes, Florida has been nice. This is the first vacation Sue and I have taken in many years. (Although I've taught and worked out three times a week and spent more time on these forums than I should have.)

[Stryke]

Dont worry Bill , I dont take it that seriously , I got highjacked and admitted it , as did yourself , I dont like the context being removed from discussions as it can make one look bad .

If you want to edit my posts got ahead but I`d prefer you removed them completely , or hey maybe you could edit my spelling we`d all appreciate that

all the best

Stryke

[Stryke]

Back to the thread ....

how does one go about toe conditioning , to me it doesnt seem as simple as gradually kicking harder and harder with them , is there another methos , is it a genetic thing , I`m tall and lean , with long fingers (so I assume toes are that way inclined) , is there another method .

Comparing The toe kick to the shin kick seems comparing the sledge hammer to the rapier , both will work , To me from my limited experience Uechi kicks seem to have less hip drive and commitement than other styles , am I of base ? , this could be another good reason for the toes being used , makes it far more effective in this instance .

Ive seen the clips , I dont doubt the effectiveness , is an interesting subject

[Bill Glasheen]

Stryke

You have a good handle on the situation as you seem to be asking all the right question.

Genetics play an important role here. Some are ready to kick with the big toe right from the beginning. Most are not. However I have found that I can train most to be "adequate" with the toe kick if they give it a try.

There are actually 2 ways to do this kick:

* The "classic way" is pictured in Master Uechi's "Big Blue Book." As I explain to my students, start with a relaxed foot. Then make the toes point to the ceiling. Then bend the toes at the middle joint. When viewed from the inside of the foot, the right big toe and foot will look like it's trying to form in a "Z" and the left big toe and foot will look like it is trying to form an "S." The bends actually act a bit like a shock absorber, thus minimizing the risk of joint trauma. When you push hard enough, the big toe retracts so much that you fall back on hitting with ball of foot.

* The "simple way" is to kick with a straight toe. Yonamine Sensei and George Mattson do their sokusens this way. It would be simple for a woman who has studied ballet to do a sokusen this way; however I find most can do one the "classic way" fairly easily.

IMO it's a big mistake to start kicking things with the big toe from the beginning. Instead...

First one must work the flexibility of the joints in the toe. I have a few PNF stretches that I teach people that help. In addition to this, I have "toe scrunches" that I teach that are similar to what folks do inbetween the sanchin double thrusts with the fingers (dynaminc tension closing of the fists).

Second one must bear weight on this weapon. This helps develop the "internal strength" of the weapon: stronger muscles, tendons, ligaments, and bones. There are places in the Uechi kata where I teach folks to push down on a sokusen toe, this offering one of many opportunities to exercise the weapon. I also teach people to walk on the toes (easy and hard way) and even do toe presses on the leg press machine with the sokusens.

Only then should one start kicking things. The best device I've seen to date is a half tire bolted to the wall or a post. Pictures of such are in Allan Dollar's Uechi book. Another opportunity is kicking real human bodies in prearranged exercises such as Kyu Kumite. Of course one needs to be careful, but this is an opportunity to see what it feels like to hit a human, if only lightly.

As for the way you hit with the sokusen vs. the shin, well there is only one difference. On must aim the sokusen a little more carefully. One must not kick on a "non target," and one must have the ankle at the correct angle. Otherwise anything you can do with a shin kick, you also can do with a sokusen. Most don't work the hips into the kick that much because you don't NEED to given the ability to concentrate the force.

But I must remind all that the most important aspect of the sokusen is its value in real self defense. Unlike in the dojo, you will likely have your shoes on when attacked. Even a half-a$$ed sokusen will work quite well with a hard shoe over top of it. So it's quite practical as a self defense weapon.

- Bill

[Karateka]

BTW, I never realized you were "the" Jason. You changed your forum name, no?

- Bill

Sorry Mr. Glasheen, I'm a different jason.