Uechi - lunging into long stances and fencing

[Dana Sheets]

The article below gives a wonderful description of how the knees play an important role in developing and managing power in Uechi's longer, lower lunging stances.

Source: Fencers Quarterly winter 2002-2003
(found at the gym)

The Fencer's body: The Knees
by Nick Evangelista

On many of today's fencing strips, an observer would be hard pressed to find those bent knees of fencing's traditional "on guard" stance. Individuals careen back and forth fairly straight-legged across the piste like bouncing balls rather than balanced, controlled fencers. It is no wonder that knees and ankles figure in so many fencing injuries. Such events occur primarily when an individual is experiencing a loss of balance. The whole physical attitude of such a fencer is often out of kilter. Straight legs are part of the problem.

Bending the knees in fencing is traditionally called "sitting down." When a fencer does this, he is instantly lowering his center of gravity. This keeps him from becoming top-heavy. Also, when he bend his knees equally, he is fixing his balance mid-way between both feet. This keeps him from shifting his weight from one leg to another - another no-no. Shifting leads to leaning, which will send a fencer to the floor or into his opponent without too much effort.

On the other hand, the bend in teh knees should not be so deep that it puts a pronounced strain on the legs. As every person coming to fencing has hysical differences that will incluence their stance, there is no one absolute. the fencing student needs to find out what works best for him as an individual.

Finally - and here is a bit of fencing logic - since the forward thrust of a long is supposed to come from the straightening of the rear leg - which pushes the body forward in an accelerating, measure thrust - a leg must therefore be straightened. If that leg is already straight from the way the fencer is standing, there will be no leg to straighten, and, hence, there will be nothing to push the attack forward. Where does the lunge come from at this point? It can only come from stepping out with the front foot.

So, how does stepping affect the attack? Basically, it pulls the fencer forward, creating a lunge that slows down the closer it gets to an opponent. Why? Because it throws body weight unequally into the front half of the body. The fencer stretches forward rather than pushes forward. This is not a balanced maneuver.

Moreover, what happens if the attacker has to stop suddenly? there's a good chance for an injury. But even if bodily harm doesn't take place, just getting from point A to point B will generally be a slow undertaking; this means - and here's another piece of fencer logic - he will give his opponent more time to parry his attack.

In the end, bending the knees, a staple of classical form, greatly aids in a fencer's control. So, why would anyone want to do otherwise? Well, it's inconvenient to learn, and when the student first tries it, it may tire his legs out. It takes discipline to keep "sitting down." But once a fencer gets accustomed to it, he is set for life.

Balance or instability? Think about it.

[Bill Glasheen]

Interesting, Dana.

It's a little difficult for me to understand exactly what this person is talking about w/o seeing it. However, I can extrapolate based on what I have seen in fencing.

There is a tendency in both fencing and taiji to put more than 50% of the weight on the front leg. That tendency also includes bending the front knee to the point that the knee goes beyond the toes.

I do not subscribe to this kind of footwork for Uechi Ryu. I teach my students not to put more than 50% of the weight on the front leg except briefly as a transient activity, or as a visually static response to a pull. And I teach not to let that front knee go beyond the front toes.

Several reasons for this:

1) Easy to get an ACL rupture if you don't follow this rule.

2) Easy to get the front leg taken out and your butt on the floor when more than half your weight is on the front leg.

Fencing is different; leg attacks aren't allowed. You do what you CAN do within the rules of the sport to maximize your potential for winning. Real fights with NHB potential are different.

For the charging Uechi low stances, I teach students to use their front leg as if they were slamming their foot on a brake. It works pretty well to keep the COG inbetween the feet. For the lunging front elbow in seisan, I similarly teach students to "brake" with the front leg.

In application though you can "break" the rule. A good example is adding a little leg activity against the opponent's shin while taking them down with the sanseiryu double roundhouse boshiken movement. I learned that little trick from Bobby Campbell, and since saw it in Xing Yi. Kata is kata; application involves taking the idea and adapting it to the situation.

FWIW.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

BTW, just saw the video you posted. Looks good to me. It's the Uechi front elbow strike stance with just a very slight "lean." (FYI...I tell people to forget about the thought of leaning, and instead think about extending the rear leg AND removing the lumbar curve.)

It follows my rules of thumb. Nice pics. Note that in the end position, the line of the shin bone is just short of being vertical. This is ideal for that stance, IMO, from both a functional and a medical (risk to ACL) point of view.

I have a way I have my student check their final position. I ask them if they can jump up and down in the final stance. It's a quick way to check things w/o having to get the rulers and protractors out.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

One other comment...

As I look at the pic you have posted, I see it has one more twist - literally.

Goju Ryu has our Uechi front elbow stance, but they rotate the body slightly. We tend to keep the front of the body square in seisan, because we are still engaging the other hand with the wauke. In gekisai kata, that front elbow strike has you chambering the other (left) hand (as a fist), so the extra degree of freedom of motion is both possible and appropriate. It actually adds more power to a later left punch when you rotate back.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

And yet another comment...

Note that you get a few extra inches of extension when you stick the other arm BACK. This acts as a counterbalance, throwing more weight behind the COG (center of gravity).

So you have the following:

1) Start with Uechi front elbow strike position

2) Add the body rotation as in Goju Ryu Gekisai kata.

3) Throw the opposite arm back as far as possible.

This gives you the classic fencing position you see above, and allows all three disciplines to share the same basic fundamentals. Steps 2 and 3 above give you more extension w/o having more than 50% weight on the front leg, or otherwise violating basic pinciples of good footwork.

Note also that the stance is driven, and not fallen into or having the feel of "reaching." When I teach this, I have students squat down first on that back leg and then spring forward. This gives a plyometric boost, and emphasizes where the power is coming from. Front foot slides, and then suddenly "brakes" w/o additional knee movement.

Sorry for being so verbose, Dana. But this is one of the "sticking points" when I teach (and judge) seisan kata.

- Bill

[Dana Sheets]

Verbose is welcome.

when I teach this, I have students squat down first on that back leg and then spring forward. This gives a plyometric boost, and emphasizes where the power is coming from. Front foot slides, and then suddenly "brakes" w/o additional knee movement.

This is the bit I was getting at. If you're doing the move as a forward movement and not as a plunging movement (a la Toyama) then you've got to get that forward energy from somewhere. If you get it by stretching out the forward leg then you're slower than if you get it by exploding off the back leg. This is also how we teaching sparring drills - the difference being that the back heel is lifted instead of stuck in the ground.

I think for the seisan lunging elbow it's important for that back leg to stay rooted because you're basically turning yourself into a battering ram - if that back heel is up and you make contact before you expect - you may bounce off. With that heel already in the ground you're able to maintain the structure for the power.

This technique was portrayed in an Anthony Hopkins film entitled "The Edge" awhile back. In the film they sharpen sticks and shove them into the ground and try to lure the bear to impale itself on them.

When training this move in Okinawa, the teachers were very focused on making sure you showed even pace and timing. That this move is actually rather graceful. I was told more than once that I "didn't need to show all my power" on this move, rather I needed to time it well. I think this has alot to do with not letting your upper body get infront of your center of gravity on the move. I think was I too focused on the lean and less focused on what my lower body was doing. I ended up with a half-stomp, half-slide. When Mr. Takara demonstrated the move it was definitely more of an accelerating glide that kept accelerating until he stopped.

Again - the difference between a stretch from the front leg vs a plyometric push from the back leg.

[Bill Glasheen]

Good points.

The analogy to the bear and the stakes is apt. I similarly use a "tiger fork" analogy. I don't know if this is true or not but... A shotokan instructor (Ray Berry) once told me that a way to use the tiger fork is basically to make yourself tiger bait, but plant the base of the fork in front of you. When the tiger lunges, you just extend the fork out with the base dug into the ground. He then impales himself. I dunno... But I understand the idea.

I think a better analogy that I often use, Dana, is the art of jousting. I ask students to show me what a jouster does. Basically they ride, they position the shield, and they aim the pole. They do NOT thrust. So where does the power come from? Velocity acquired from the legs of the horse and the mass of the horse-jouster.

Similarly you can consider your own legs to be those of the horse, and your elbow to be the pole. Just make sure you are braced when the momentum of your body is delivered onto the tip of your elbow. (Not a lot different than having to brace yourself on the horse when your pole makes contact in jousting.) No need to have any focused, thrusting, or lunging activity with the arm. It's all in the legs - particularly the rear leg in the seisan movement. In kanchin and sanseiryu, you get more than one step into the total power - just like the horse.

- Bill