"know yourself, know your enemy, know the battle field."
by thinking about some of these ideas you can modify or reinforce your training. as an example ;
the psyco/physical response in yourself is really about how you emtionally feel during the confrontation.
if your gut is telling you to go forward and attack then attack.
if your gut is telling you to back up and run then you need to learn hit and run techniques.
in a standing confrontation you can only move in four directions. if your training has taught you to move in but your mind is saying back up, the two are not working together and the result will not be in your favor. training needs to take into consideration these five emotions.
by understanding the facts about the profile of sexual offenders you again will modify your training.
the prefered place for a ritualistic /orginized offender is in your home.
most women are attacked buy surprise in bed or in the shower. knowing that ask yourself does your training teach you to kick while sitting on the floor (bed) ? if you have done it before you would know it can be one hell of a strong kick. on the other hand maybe your training works on high round kicks and spinning kicks. well guess what, that aint happening while your in the shower or bathroom. so maybe instead you could incorperate some elbows from very close range <i mean know what he ate for dinner close>.
and on quite another note knowing an offender likes to use "the con" ,,,, classic offender ted bundy used to pretend he had to use crutches with a broken leg and need help loading his groceries into his van.
with this type information your non-physical training should be reconizing that not all is as it seems. ted was a very good looking ,well educated professional. it was very difficult to convince the jury that this guy actually was capable of such sadistic crimes.
one of the first posts said :
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There is no cookie cutter solution for self defense.
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well you are right but we can narrow the field. eliminate ideas that have since proved to be incorect assumptions and learn what information is now current and important.
facts and information while at first might seem confusing will actually lead to a very clear and defined picture.
Hoshin
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whats your response on rape defense?
Moderator: Available
so what does everyone think. i really didnt want/mean to be in teaching mode. i was looking for peoples opinions, ideas and knowledge on this topic. maybe this topic has been rehashed too many times? there has to be more people reading this then Dana, bevwy and myself it has been viewed 180 times. if you think i am way off track i want to know. is this stuff helpfull ? these forums can be a great learning tool if people interact. dont be shy now. write in and let me know what is on your mind.
Hoshin
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Hoshin
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
OK - I'll throw one out.
The other night I had gone into a a bar with some friends we were standing around waiting for the music to start. A guy seated at the bar said something to me in Spanish (which I don't speak). I ignored him.
The next time I was near him (to pick up our drinks) he said something to me. I looked at him , smiled, and shrugged my shoulders and said in English - I don't speak spanish. Then he said something else while making a gesture that I interpreted to be an invitation to sit next to him. I stopped smiling and simply said said "no". I have no idea what he was saying.
I went back to my friends and we danced. Then went back to the bar to pick up round two. This time he said something louder and his face was no longer inviting or smiling - he was frowning. I just shook my head at him, again said "I don't speak Spanish" without smiling and went back to my friends.
A little later we were sitting on couches in a different part of the bar. This same guy approaches my group of friends and in an aggressive stance and with a frown on his face waves to me to come to him. He was about 10 feet away.
I kept by body posture relaxed (didn't cross my arms or anything) held a steady gaze to him, and very slowly shook my head no. I felt my body getting ready to spring off the couch if he came any closer.
He decided I wasn't worth the effort and left. I've since been back to the same bar but happily didn't see him there.
***
It's been my experience in bars that you can't say no to guys with a smile on your face and expect them to go away. That eventually I have to stop smiling and give a firm no. About half they time they go away with a smile on their faces and half the time they walk away somewhat miffed.
Is saying no without a smile on my face in a bar putting me at a higher risk for being attacked?
The other night I had gone into a a bar with some friends we were standing around waiting for the music to start. A guy seated at the bar said something to me in Spanish (which I don't speak). I ignored him.
The next time I was near him (to pick up our drinks) he said something to me. I looked at him , smiled, and shrugged my shoulders and said in English - I don't speak spanish. Then he said something else while making a gesture that I interpreted to be an invitation to sit next to him. I stopped smiling and simply said said "no". I have no idea what he was saying.
I went back to my friends and we danced. Then went back to the bar to pick up round two. This time he said something louder and his face was no longer inviting or smiling - he was frowning. I just shook my head at him, again said "I don't speak Spanish" without smiling and went back to my friends.
A little later we were sitting on couches in a different part of the bar. This same guy approaches my group of friends and in an aggressive stance and with a frown on his face waves to me to come to him. He was about 10 feet away.
I kept by body posture relaxed (didn't cross my arms or anything) held a steady gaze to him, and very slowly shook my head no. I felt my body getting ready to spring off the couch if he came any closer.
He decided I wasn't worth the effort and left. I've since been back to the same bar but happily didn't see him there.
***
It's been my experience in bars that you can't say no to guys with a smile on your face and expect them to go away. That eventually I have to stop smiling and give a firm no. About half they time they go away with a smile on their faces and half the time they walk away somewhat miffed.
Is saying no without a smile on my face in a bar putting me at a higher risk for being attacked?
Did you show compassion today?
i would like to hear what others have to say here but i will say.... being a guy myself i can honestly say sometimes we are totaly stupid when it comes to a womans "signals" a lot of men will think if your talking to them with a smile that your "into" them. when in your mind your thinking how to get of the sitiuation.
this is different from than the serial offender i was talking about but i think this "body language" concept is just as important a subject and probably more common.
hoshin
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this is different from than the serial offender i was talking about but i think this "body language" concept is just as important a subject and probably more common.
hoshin
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Hi
[Is saying no without a smile on my face in a bar putting me at a higher risk for being attacked?]
No it just makes you feel unnecessarily rude and could in some instances increase the animosity in a situation
eg the guy saying ' jeez lady I was only offering you a drink what's your problem etc '
Sometimes guys just see an attractive lady and try their luck with a chat up line , which can be politely declined with a smile and is generally taken in good humour.
The less honerable men out there rely on the fact that a lot of women don't want to appear rude or are out for an enjoyable evening with friends and don't want to make a scene so are more likely to smile politely and be less forceful in saying no.
The sad fact is that some guys just think women are targets irrespective of their initial response to an invitation and in that case a definite NO , STOP BOTHERING ME in a loud voice so people nearby can hear is probably the best way , they are more likely to back off if they think other people nearby have noticed their behaviour.
This is different to the spontaneous attacker when you are walking through the carpark etc but can be just as dangerous.
And Hoshin , I know that these posts haven't really answered your initial topic ,
Yes training in different attack scenario's , groundwork , multiple attackers etc is great in a controlled environment and may give us an advantage over someone with no training if we are unlucky enough to find ourselves under attack but from my point of view I'm not going to post something specific about what I would do and how I would or would not react to a real attack.
I could be wrong but maybe the reason that no other women have contributed to your initial discussion question is that we don't want men to know what we would or wouldn't do in a rape situation.
It almost feels like we'd be giving advise tips !!!
Please don't take offence , other women out there may have a completley different opinion so I'm only speaking for myself really.
It just may be that the subject has indeed been discussed to death elsewhere on this forum and I'm being overly suspicious and cynical.
B[/quote]
[Is saying no without a smile on my face in a bar putting me at a higher risk for being attacked?]
No it just makes you feel unnecessarily rude and could in some instances increase the animosity in a situation
eg the guy saying ' jeez lady I was only offering you a drink what's your problem etc '
Sometimes guys just see an attractive lady and try their luck with a chat up line , which can be politely declined with a smile and is generally taken in good humour.
The less honerable men out there rely on the fact that a lot of women don't want to appear rude or are out for an enjoyable evening with friends and don't want to make a scene so are more likely to smile politely and be less forceful in saying no.
The sad fact is that some guys just think women are targets irrespective of their initial response to an invitation and in that case a definite NO , STOP BOTHERING ME in a loud voice so people nearby can hear is probably the best way , they are more likely to back off if they think other people nearby have noticed their behaviour.
This is different to the spontaneous attacker when you are walking through the carpark etc but can be just as dangerous.
And Hoshin , I know that these posts haven't really answered your initial topic ,
Yes training in different attack scenario's , groundwork , multiple attackers etc is great in a controlled environment and may give us an advantage over someone with no training if we are unlucky enough to find ourselves under attack but from my point of view I'm not going to post something specific about what I would do and how I would or would not react to a real attack.
I could be wrong but maybe the reason that no other women have contributed to your initial discussion question is that we don't want men to know what we would or wouldn't do in a rape situation.
It almost feels like we'd be giving advise tips !!!
Please don't take offence , other women out there may have a completley different opinion so I'm only speaking for myself really.
It just may be that the subject has indeed been discussed to death elsewhere on this forum and I'm being overly suspicious and cynical.
B[/quote]
I agree it's a tough issue and it's difficult to put together anything coherent *and* it has been discussed a lot, but I'll go ahead and throw my two cents in.
I was nearly raped. My agressive, outgoing friend who is actually physically stronger than me was raped. I reacted with outrage at his first overtures and prepared for an aggressive fight where I was willing to be hurt rather than submit to being handcuffed (at which point I'd be at such a huge disadvantage I could have done nothing to save myself and my attacker could choose when, where and how to stop). My friend reacted with fear and allowed the rape. The fact is that we both survived. The dynamic is too complex. We had different aggressors. I was extremely isolated and alone and no screaming for help would have saved me. How do you put these pieces together? I feel that reacting early and with anger is the way to go, but my belief in that is colored by my success and survival. My friend's experience will probably cause her to react submissively if she ended up in that position again, and advise others to do so, because it worked for her. That list Hoshin posted about the types of aggressor, environment, etc. is just the tip of the iceberg. So now what?
There's heaps of reading material on this subject. It's a good to research through books and finding the best source material you can so you don't waste your time with material written by authors who do a lot of guessing that sounds good. The best books are mentioned all over the forums as good reads by folks like Rory and Van and Bill. Strong on Defense, etc. They can go into way more depth because they have hundreds of pages to get into the meat and bones of the subject and have the resource of many interviews where I have one personal experience and the experiences of two friends with sexual violence in my mind. That's not enough to give you good info, much as I'd want to.
Take care!
Kami
I was nearly raped. My agressive, outgoing friend who is actually physically stronger than me was raped. I reacted with outrage at his first overtures and prepared for an aggressive fight where I was willing to be hurt rather than submit to being handcuffed (at which point I'd be at such a huge disadvantage I could have done nothing to save myself and my attacker could choose when, where and how to stop). My friend reacted with fear and allowed the rape. The fact is that we both survived. The dynamic is too complex. We had different aggressors. I was extremely isolated and alone and no screaming for help would have saved me. How do you put these pieces together? I feel that reacting early and with anger is the way to go, but my belief in that is colored by my success and survival. My friend's experience will probably cause her to react submissively if she ended up in that position again, and advise others to do so, because it worked for her. That list Hoshin posted about the types of aggressor, environment, etc. is just the tip of the iceberg. So now what?
There's heaps of reading material on this subject. It's a good to research through books and finding the best source material you can so you don't waste your time with material written by authors who do a lot of guessing that sounds good. The best books are mentioned all over the forums as good reads by folks like Rory and Van and Bill. Strong on Defense, etc. They can go into way more depth because they have hundreds of pages to get into the meat and bones of the subject and have the resource of many interviews where I have one personal experience and the experiences of two friends with sexual violence in my mind. That's not enough to give you good info, much as I'd want to.
Take care!
Kami
One seed, many lives.
