Criminal charges dropped against Kobe?

[Bill Glasheen]

Prosecution Will Reportedly Drop Charges Against Kobe

By JON SARCHE, AP Sports

EAGLE, Colo. (Sept. 1) -- Attorneys in the Kobe Bryant case hastily assembled behind closed doors in the courtroom Wednesday amid reports prosecutors will drop the rape charges against the NBA star.

The prosecution will drop the case as early as Thursday, according to media outlets including MSNBC, ABC and Court TV, all citing unidentified sources.

***

I've been watching this with interest for a while.

Obviously Kobe has a problem keeping "little Kobe" in his cage. It's problem enough for a single man or your average NBA player. It's more of a problem considering his marital status, although such a thing is fashionable among many.

But this "he said, she said" case against Kobe has been extremely interesting - particularly with the accuser filing civil charges before the criminal trial (if any) even started. It appears unseemly all the way around.

Oye!

This is truly a difficult subject to discuss, and I did not want to tackle it on my forum. I considered posting this on Panther's "Tough Issues" forum, and don't know if I made the right choice. I trust Dana's judgement on this issue.

Don't think it can't happen in your karate dojo.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

I just saw a live webcast from the office of the prosecution. They say they dropped the case because the accuser was unwilling to continue. They say they were not lacking in evidence or will to proceed.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.

Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.

- Statement from Kobe Bryant

[Dana Sheets]

While it may seem a bit of a stretch. In my mind this case ties closely to a story from this week's Parade Magazine about former pro football player Joe Ehrmann, now a high school football coach, pastor and community leader in Baltimore. The article describes his feelings on manhood and what defines manhood in America.

http://www.parade.com/aol/mediarelation ... 82904.html

Part of the problem says Ehrmann, are the standard measures that seem to define manhood in our society: athletic ability, sexual conquest and economic success.  “Those are the three lies that make up what I call ‘false masculinity,’” he says.  “The problem is that it sets men up for tremendous failures in our lives.  Because it gives us this concept that what we need to do as men is compare what we have and compete with others for what they have. … We compare, we compete.  That’s all we ever do.  It leaves most men feeling isolated and alone.  And it destroys any concept of community.”

Ehrmann spends his life now teaching the Greyhounds football team of the Gilman School in Baltimore how not to fall into this cycle.  His own definition of manhood, called “strategic masculinity,” is based on two things: relationships and having a cause beyond yourself.  “Masculinity, first and foremost, ought to be defined in terms of relationships,” he says.  “It ought to be taught in terms of the capacity to love and to be loved.  It comes down to this: What kind of father are you?  What kind of husband are you? What kind of son are you? What kind of friend are you?  Success comes in terms of relationships.

...athletic ability, sexual conquest and economic success...

If we continue to promote an ideal of manhood that is based mostly on competition I don't see how we can expect violence against women to decline.

[Bill Glasheen]

That is a fascinating article, Dana, and an interesting hypothesis you present.

If we continue to promote an ideal of manhood that is based mostly on competition I don't see how we can expect violence against women to decline

Hmm...

First, let me wear the hat of the individual with testosterone. To be male - by definition - is to compete. It's programmed in us to do so. A course in sociobiology (or a read of a book like The Selfish Gene) will clarify what it is like to play the "role" of the male vs. play the "role" of the female. We each have unique needs, and unique goals.

That being said...


What is the premise put forth by sociobiologists like Dawkins? Basically it's that we and our actions exist to propagate our DNA. So, let's work with that cold, hard premise for a bit. What strategies would we use to do such?

All of this gets complicated when you consider "selfless" acts, such as sacrificing one's life for others. Dawkins easily explains this altruism by pointing out that one's genes can be pretty well represented by our kin around us - hence the saying "blood runs thicker than water."

So "being a man" ISN'T all about boinging as much pootang as you can. By the rules of sociobiology, one is only successful if one's progeny make it all the way to adulthood and have a high probability of producing many more generations of progeny.

What's the best strategy for doing that? In today's society, relationships are indeed a key factor for success. My, my, but now we have the cold, hard facts of science agreeing with the wise patriarch in the community. We should not be surprised.

Competition is still natural for males, and it's still a good thing. But what's wrong with competing for relationships? What's wrong with setting personal goals against which we measure ourselves, rather that be obsessed with the number of toys and conquests I have vs. my neighbor? This doesn't go against our basic nature. Rather, it helps us refocus our natural impulses and drive towards constructive channels. Nothing wrong with that, no?

Food for thought...

At the risk of sounding racist, I will say up front that African American culture has some pretty screwed up standards against which men measure themselves. And instead of pointing the plastic finger at me, consider the statistics. Look at teenage pregnancies by ethnic group. Look at the percentage of men who abandon women when they become pregnant out of wedlock. Look at the percentage of single parent homes.

And then... Look in the prisons. What race do we see overrepresented? Some will argue a racist society. Others will point to the innate evil of a particular ethnic group. I say it's pretty simple. It comes down to ethnic traditions, and the strange economic incentives we create in our society. Sadly, the welfare system that was supposed to bootstrap the disenfranchised has partially been responsible for the destruction of the black family in our country. We as a society goofed, and it will take generations to fix.

Meanwhile, throw a bunch of good looking athletes with high levels of testosterone and the emotional intelligence of adolescents into a society filled with equally vacuous groupies, and what do you get? A friggin' sexual free-for-all contest. One well-known athlete at U.Va. (NCAA player of the year 2 years in a row, and NBA rookie of the year) has so many little kids in so many cities, that he's now being dragged into court for not keeping up with child support. What's up with that? What kind of life will these kids lead without a father at home to show the way? It's a bloody mess.

And those are the lucky ones. At least they have a dad out there "somewhere" with some cash that'll keep them in decent clothes and out of the worst socioeconomic situations.

I'm beginning to ramble a bit here... It's the frustration inside from seeing two emotional idiots screw their lives up (bad pun intended). And that's being kind.

- Bill

[Valkenar]

To be male - by definition - is to compete. It's programmed in us to do so. A course in sociobiology (or a read of a book like [link] will clarify what it is like to play the "role" of the male vs. play the "role" of the female. We each have unique needs, and unique goals.

Nature doesn't inform morality. Why should we accept biological instinct if we can recognize that it's counterproductive? A rat or monkey empowered to self-administer cocaine will do so continously until it dies of starvation and sleep deprivation (http://www.intheknowzone.com/cocaine/addiction.htm). The point? Just because something feels good to us doesn't mean we should indulge it.

In modern society, what is the point about caring about gender roles? Why strive to be manly or womanly? Why worry about it at all? Why not just do what makes sense and disregard any concerns about whether your activity is gender-appropriate?

I'm not saying competition is an unmitigated disaster. It is undeniably useful in some contexts, and for some things. But as long as we accept stupid macho behavior because "boys will be boys" we're exacerbating the problems caused by our negative tendencies. Competition is one thing, but men to compete against each other all the time and always be trying to one-up the other. This is not a good thing in modern society, imho.

Humanity's greatest asset is cognitive plasticity, the ability to adapt to changing conditions, not genetically, but mentally. Maybe it's time to abandon some of our outdated ideas about how men and women should behave to fit their biology. My point here isn't that we should ignore all of our instincts, but that we should use our awareness of them to recognize when we're falling victim to disfunctional patterns and when we're failing to adopt beneficial habits because they're in opposition to our nature.

At the risk of sounding racist, I will say up front that African American culture has some pretty screwed up standards against which men measure themselves. And instead of pointing the plastic finger at me, consider the statistics. Look at teenage pregnancies by ethnic group. Look at the percentage of men who abandon women when they become pregnant out of wedlock. Look at the percentage of single parent homes.

And then... Look in the prisons. What race do we see overrepresented? Some will argue a racist society.
[/quote

Look at a sampling of caucasians taken from the same demographics. I think you'll find that the culture with screwed up standards isn't as much black culture as it is poverty-stricken culture. Living by the skin of your teeth encourages a mindset of looking out for number one, and that is a large part of the family problems from men. On the female side, there's often a feeling that having a baby will bring meaning to an otherwise unfulfilling life.

This problem isn't unique to blacks, but they are over-represented in this demographic, it's true. Some would counterargue that the continued poverty of african americans is evidence of their own cultural failures. But poverty tends to purpetuate itself the same way that money tends to attract money. "Spend money to make money" Isn't that a truism in business? What does that imply for those who have no money to spend? Is it possible to escape that kind of background? Of course it is. But it's far, far more difficult to emerge from poverty than it is to succeed as anyone from the middle-class, black or white.

This isn't to say that there aren't shortcomings unique to black culture as represented in the ghetto. The problems of poverty are exacerbated by the perception that the only way to get out is by long-shots like sports and music.

I say it's pretty simple. It comes down to ethnic traditions, and the strange economic incentives we create in our society.

There's no way it's that simple. Even if you're right and I'm wrong about the cultural dimension, there's so much more to it than just that. The eagerness of a few people to go on welfare is wildly overreported because it causes such outrage and moves papers. Most people on welfare would like to get off it, and many are outright ashamed of it.

[Dana Sheets]

Classicism vs Racism

Opportunity is the greatest divide. Of course there will always been those exceptional souls that pull themselves up out of whatever environment they find themselves in. And that's just what they are - exceptions.

We model our parents and the environment around us - for the most part. If our parents shun education, social action, tolerance, and devotion to family, friends, and spouses - we probably will too. The color of your skin won't matter.

Competition was the main key to survival. Is it now? Probably. But how to we go about keeping competition healthy and not letting it get out of control.

This month in my church's magazine there is also an article about taking back our personal time.

http://www.uuworld.org/2004/05/feature2.html

U.S. workers now work an average of nine full weeks more than European workers do. Sociologist Juliet Schor calculated that from 1973 to 2000 the average U.S. worker added 199 hours to his or her annual work schedule. We have the shortest paid vacations in the world, and in 2002 Americans gave back 175 million days of paid vacation to employers—time they already had coming. We work more hours than medieval peasants did. Interestingly, two disparate groups in the population are hit the hardest: managers who are forced to be married to their job, and the working poor who often have to work two or more jobs to make ends meet. The Microsoft effect and the Wal-Mart effect, if you will. In between are the millions of workers who are forced to work overtime hours they did not choose to contribute to their employer.

When we are not working, we are more hurried than ever before. According to a University of Michigan study, our children have lost large amounts of play time and unstructured outdoor time in the past few decades. Their structured sports time has doubled, but their meals at home have declined. Parents are spending more time shuffling kids to soccer and music lessons. And yet big increases in homework time have not been accompanied by improvements in learning.

Even adults who are not raising children report a chronic sense of hurry, according to time use researchers. We've turned being “busy” into a benign, expected experience—as witnessed by the jolly greeting “Keeping busy?” The correct answer is “Yes, of course.”

Competition is now so pervasively tied to our ideals of success that we're killing ourselves trying to live up to it.

[Bill Glasheen]

I don't think we're disagreeing at all, Justin. On the contrary, you've nailed it pretty well.

In research, we often use race as a "proxy" for socioeconomic status. In a study of the etiology of burn injuries, I demonstrated a higher relative risk for black as opposed to white. It was pretty dramatic. Why? I had the data on race, but not on income. If I had income information, it likely would have shown income to be the causal factor, and race to be highly correlated with it. Lower income folk get the kinds of jobs and live the kinds of lives that expose them to various burn risks.

Burns don't know skin color, do they? No innate racism there.

One key thing I missed in my "economic incentives" is articulating exactly what I meant by that. It includes the whole "rich get richer, poor get poorer" syndrome. Those at the bottom of the pile live the lives that they live. Also, welfare works such that it can be better for a pregnant mom just to leave the bum that got her in trouble and get a steady check from Uncle Sam.

There really is a cultural element though, completely disctinct from race.

Understand that it doesn't take being poor and/or black to live a life making poor choices. Ask half our politicians... The big difference here though is that middle to upper class society has a way of punishing those (economically) who carelessly sow their wild oats. To the guy who has nothing, he has nothing to lose (economically and/or socially). There's no point trying to squeeze juice out of a dry lemon. That encourages a lot more unsavory behavior in the lower classes.

There is another issue here. As they say, you can take the boy out of the 'hood, but you can't necessarily take the 'hood out of the boy. To make it from "relative" rags to riches like Kobe (who BTW never went to college) is to miss out on many of the opportunities to learn how to function wisely in higher society. And someone like Kobe who's visible, athletic, has lots of money, star quality, and good looks is going to attract a lot of women with low self esteem and/or less-than-pure motives. It's an opportunity to get into a whole lot of trouble.

I'm not making excuses for Kobe. I'm just telling it like it is.

- Bill

[benzocaine]

I've deleted this post. It could be easily misunderstood.
Ben

[Dana Sheets]

First and foremost we have to remember that they were origionally slaves.

Please be very careful on this thread folks.

First and foremost we are all people first. None of us were ever "first" slaves. The individuals who were brutally extracted into slavery through the middle passage were people who lived together and raised their families together in great nations all across Africa.

The central issue around Kobe isn't his race - it is his actions. In the pressure cooker of superstardom few people emerge with their character intact.

Dana

Ben - I sent you a PM.

[Bill Glasheen]

I missed out on what Ben posted. However, let's all understand that everyone means well here. I can vouch for Ben. He's a man with a good heart in the right place. If something was said that was "unfortunate," he deserves a pass. God knows that my feet and my mouth are no strangers to each other.

I agree that the central issue here is actions, Dana. However if we are to believe that there is anything to the theories of behaviorism - one of the most successful nonpharmacologic strategies for treating behavioral issues - then we must understand that there may be a causal link between "nurture" and Kobe's unfortunate actions (whatever they were). Furthermore to dismiss a link between actions and environment is to throw in the towel and assume that Kobe may be evil by nature. I'm not willing to go that far.

That being said, we can't throw out the inflence of "culture" on what Kobe did. I'll leave it at that.

Even if this was consensual sex (and we cannot throw that out as a possibility), Kobe still did something very stupid. He was a married man who engaged in unprotected sex with a woman he did not know. What are the risks?

1) He could have been infected with a deadly disease, and given that to his wife. Anyone know what caused Magic Johnson to retire early from the NBA? Hello!!! No matter how pretty, how white, and how criminally innocent, this woman could have been harboring some deadly diseases. We know enough already to appreciate that this was not a remote possibility. I'm sorry that was so ugly, but it's the truth.

2) He could have been set up for any number of "situations." Most probably do not know about a thread I started on my forum last fall, where an "innocent" woman in "distress" knocked on my motel room door. One thing led to another, and she turned out not to be a savory character when security got involved. Fortunately I could see it coming, and did not let her in my room.

Again, this is not a remote possibility. Already professional sports programs are attempting to educate their players about the many elaborate con schemes going on to entrap married professional athletes. All you need is a married athlete with a lot of money and some exchanged bodily fluids, and you've got a case of blackmail giftwrapped for the con artist.

3) In a "he said, she said" case, both parties come out as losers. It's best to use something other than little Kobe's head to make important decisions in life, no matter how randy you are feeling at the moment. How long had Kobe known this woman before engaging in intercourse?

Kobe isn't the only guy to have a woman tell a story about a "situation" in order to "set the record straight" about someone's "reputation." I would venture to say that most people - male AND female - have lied about what has happened behind closed doors.

Intimacy is supposed to be a two-way affair. IMO, it's a LOT more fun when the other party is completely and unequivocally on board. Even the appearance of impropriety ruins it. Why take any chances?

And finally...

Dare I say - even if pristine in this case - that this woman made some VERY STUPID choices? If my daughter ever went into a man's hotel room thinking that anything BUT sex was on the man's mind, I think I would enage in some severe corporal punishment - no matter what her age. And even if she wanted sex, and I'm not knocking a woman's right to have a healthy libido, what the hell is she doing in the hotel room of a married man, other than looking for trouble?

There ought to be a law against terminal stupidity. And this is assuming this woman is innocent, and I'm not 100% certain that she is. Her actions after the fact only contribute to the appearance of highly unseemly behavior.

IMO, there are no white hats to be found here. Mind you, I'm not the one casting stones. I am far from pure as the driven snow. However, THEY are and they brought all their dirty laundry out in public. If you wish someone to judge, prepare to be judged. If you wanted a penalty to be dealt out and I were czar, I'd throw both their butts in jail.

- Bill

P.S. Feel free to tell me I am wrong about any or all of my arguments. This is after all a discussion.

[benzocaine]

Thanks Bill.

I was using a stupid choice of words, and deserved the quick rebuke. Very stupid, and could be interpreted with a different picture than the one I wanted to illustrate. I'd really rather not pursue it any more. I'll be much more careful in the future. There are people who could be offended or rather pissed that I don't want to be.

Now as far as the Kobe rape case goes I have to say there has been some information out that would give me reasonable doubt as to Kobe's guilt. There have been people who've stated that she was was bragging at a party about a certain peice of Brynt's anatomy.

No matter what really happened I agree with Bill. It was stupid on both sides to be alone in that room.

[Dana Sheets]

I've been thinking alot about the idea of African-American culture. It just doesn't work for me. That's like saying Caucasian-American culture or Asian-American culture. It's too broad, too vague, and impossible to quantify.

We have to look at Mr. Bryant's upbringing, his local influences, his family traditions, and the direction he took in life.

There are things that happen in the lives of college atheletes that really make my stomach turn. Things like a sorority "servicing" a team at a party. Stories I've heard from football players of being invited to a party where each one was assigned a room and every 20 minutes women would rotate between the rooms.

I have no idea what the inside life is for a pro-basketball player. But if the stories of folks like Magic Johnson are to be believed, then there are scores of women who wait near the hotels where the players stay - hoping to be picked up and allowed to hang around/on the players for an evening.

Who did Mr. Bryant hang with? Were his peers positive or negative influences? Were their strong women in his life or only were they too few and far between. Often values carefully instilled by parents are quickly shattered once the little bird flies out of the nest.

In the end Mr. Bryant has cast a dark shadow on his marriage, shamed his team, and illustrated why it is important to there to be clear conversations about consent before rolling in the hay.

[IJ]

Bill, I think I know what you mean in your post there that you'd be upset with a dumb daughter but I doubt you'd employ "severe corporal punishment," or any corporal punishment, for that matter.

[Bill Glasheen]

My father certainly would have, Ian, quite literally. Times have changed.

I've never had a daughter (although I would love having one) but I know I would be very protective of her and would demand behavior appropriate of a girl/woman who deserved respect. You really have to wonder about the behavior of "groupies" and what drives them to debase themselves so that they might capture a bit of fame. It baffles me.

On a very rare occasion I have engaged in corporal punishment with my boys when they were very young. It takes something severe, like running out into a parking lot with no regard for or awareness of their personal safety. It's more humane than getting killed by a car.

- Bill