Criminal charges dropped against Kobe?

[Valkenar]

You really have to wonder about the behavior of "groupies" and what drives them to debase themselves so that they might capture a bit of fame. It baffles me.

The groupies aren't doing it for fame, they're doing it because these are some of the most desirable men in the world. These groupies tend to compete with each other to bed the greatest number and most prestigious of them. For these women, it's not as much about debasing themselves for public fame as it is their pride in bedding prominent men. And it's also about lust and desire. At least according to the somewhat minimal reading I've done on the subject.

Now there certainly are instances of debasement (like what Dana noted), and by no means am I saying that this laudable lifestyle. What I am saying is that just because these women have a lot of sex with different men doesn't *neccessarily* mean they're debasing themselves in the process. In some cases yes, in some cases no.

[KZMiller]

Now that there is birth control, women can feasibly indulge in 'bragging rights bedding' with roughly the same consequences as a man. I suspect a lack of birth control was why in prior eras it was in part culturally unacceptable, and another part was likely that women were viewed as assets if not outright possessions of a man's household and although a man would be happy to indulge in 'loose women' he wouldn't want to have one for a wife and become a laughing stock. Nowadays he might feel the same, but it isn't his right to impose his requirements on his female companions. He just needs to select the right one.

But I digress. these days it seems culturally okay to seek powerful, sexy men and bed them strictly for the same payoff that a man would have if he managed to get hold of Jessica Simpson or whoever. It's far, far easier for a woman to get in bed with someone famous, I've noticed ...

I'm not sure all women are emotionally okay with this sort of thing, and if they were, not sure how this would affect society that has relied on the stabilizing factors (from the female side) of maternal instinct, homekeeping, and from a dual-sex standpoint, monogamous long-term relationships. These big question marks all relate in my mind back to what we're seeing in the Kobe case. A woman sleeping with another man after allegedly being raped and bragging about sleeping with the man who allegedly raped her, her alleged rapist being a married man, etc. I know there's always been adultery, infidelity, all kinds of behavior throughout history but there's been all kinds of bad stuff happening throughout history (though adultery pales compared to some of those historical atrocities). Some of the changes in morality I approve of at least on some level, but many leave me wondering when we're going to start drawing lines again. We build up a huge legal system that most find inadequate while simultaneously relaxing our system of morality. Where are we going? It's pretty obvious no one is steering this boat, except (cringe) Britney Spears.

Kami

[Bill Glasheen]

Excellent points are being made here.

Any accomplished athlete has been the target of such advances. Perhaps the language here (groupie) doesn't quite capture the breadth of activity.

Henry Kissinger once said that power is the greatest aphrodisiac. I agree that women can be empowered to "conquer" males the same way men have taken on that traditional role in the past. It's also fair to suggest that single women have a right to satisfy their libido. On the flip side I believe that there are a number of women who seek validation through sexual activity, and that's an altogether different proposition. I've encountered the full range in my lifetime. When you know these people in advance, it's easier to understand whose personality is intact and whose is fragile. Power and subordination come in to play as well.

When it's a one night stand with a "stranger," I submit that it's impossible to be certain about what is best, and very dangerous to assume anything.

This gets into the whole issue of relationships that Dana brought up in the first place. I'm not knocking sex for fun - far from it. And a secure man never minds being pursued by a confident woman. I just think it's best when both parties have a firm understanding of each others' needs as well as their vulnerabilities.

I don't get the idea that this woman who allegedly was assaulted by Kobe had a firm grasp of what she wanted, nor does it appear that she was a well adjusted individual. The only empowering activity to come out of that situation - as it was played out - is economic blackmail.

Convince me I am wrong.

- Bill