Self Defense Class in Richmond Oct. 2 - Bill G. vs OC Spray!

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:43 pm

Come one, come all. On October 2 we will be doing a self defense class and the climax will be Bill getting a full dose of OC (pepper) spray. He will have to endure a two minute harrasment course before getting to take a shower (which does not work by the way.. it is mostly a psychological carrot).

Here is the notice:

The AFFC Karate Club will Present a Special Self Defense Session Saturday, October 2 in Aerobics Room 'A' from 11:30 AM to 1:00 PM

Live OC (pepper spray) Demonstration
(Yes, we have a volunteer to show what happens to humans that receive a direct spray. You will be surprised by the reaction and followup activity!)

All AFFC Members Welcome.
There is no charge. Due to the content and very unpleasent OC demo anyone under 18 must be accompanied by a parent or guardian.

The session will cover awareness, weapons, and appropriate use of force.

Rich

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:53 pm

Hats off to you Bill, and good luck!

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:57 pm

By the way, I will not be using the civilian stuff that can be bought over the counter. This is the industrial strength version.

Rich

benzocaine · Post by **benzocaine** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:05 pm

Sounds like fun.

Drona · Post by **Drona** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:16 pm

And the point of this will be what?
After you hit him in the face, why not kick him in the nuts and crack his head with a night stick until he is subdued so you can duck tape spray soaked cotton balls to his eye lids. Better wear gloves, keep the balls in a baggie., or in tin foil.
Hell, while you are on a roll handcuff hm to a chain link fence and burn his scalp off with a propane torch. I'd pay to see that. Sounds like your genius is reaching a peak. You should spray yourself too and then fight him barefist to at least a TKO. then let the winner wear the highest belt, end of fitness standard discussion too. What ever happened to Karate, Zen, et all?

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:04 am

"...we will be doing a self defense class"

Drona · Post by **Drona** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:12 am

Self defense against what?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:35 am

Drona wrote:Hell, while you are on a roll handcuff him to a chain link fence and burn his scalp off with a propane torch. I'd pay to see that.

How much would you be willing to pay?

Sounds like your genius is reaching a peak. You should spray yourself too and then fight him barefist to at least a TKO. then let the winner wear the highest belt, end of fitness standard discussion too.

I don’t think anyone’s claimed to be a genius yet. Why end the fitness debate, it’s an active thread obviously some folks are interested in the discussion.

What ever happened to Karate, Zen, et all?

Depends on who you talk too. Some say it’s been diluted, some say it was always schit and some say it’s getting better, as it evolves with modern training methods. Different strokes for different folks. http://www.sublimedirectory.com/basemen ... /kimbo.wmv What color chi ball would you use to knock down this kimbo guy...do you think oc spray would stop him?

I’m not sure what happened to the Zen, Drona, I guess it got lost in all those other highbrow spiritual concepts like tolerance patience etc. But I guess if you can’t stand to see these threads on the forums you could always tie a baby to your face. http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.p ... ght=#64927

I think the concept of experiencing pepper spray is valid if your interested in seeing if you can over come it’s effects and prevail in a violent situation. OC spray is used by the criminal element. Just recently we had three punks rob a legion and they pepper sprayed a WWII vet full in the face. I commend Bill for being willing to experience this chemical attack, he’s taken the first step in learning how to fight the effect of the spray. Better to do so in a non life threatening situation.

When I was training in the infantry we planned on using rifles to prevail, still didn’t stop us training with explosives, empty hand and edged weapons. And we also were exposed to tear gas as part of our training. The gas wasn’t pleasant. I never experienced it again, but I’m glad I had the training. The exposure to the gas in training helps prevent one from panic in combat.

I see Bills test as doing the same for him.

JMO

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:02 am

Hmm...

Rich, do you think you could educate Drona on the concept? Please explain the programs which require recruits to experience these unpleasantries.

There literally is a method to the madness, Drona. Hopefully you will feel more enlightened when presented with more of the principles behind such training.

And thanks for covering my back, Laird. At the very least, this is a morbidly entertaining diversion.

- Bill

P.S. All are welcome to come. Rich teaches an excellent self defense course. His is the most evidence-based curriculum I've seen to date. My demo is designed to teach several important lessons both to me and to the students who show up.

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:10 am

Interesting response Drona.

First, Bill has requested the training.

As pointed out by TSD and clearly stated in my opening, this is a self defense class.

To respond to your comments, Well, we will skip the blowtorch.

Yes, I will wear rubber gloves.

I will have handcuffs ready in case he freaks out and we need to keep him from rubbing his eyes.

Again, this is a self defense class. The purpose of the demo is to debunk the general thinking that chemical sprays are going to stop a determined attacker. Bill will be sprayed, and he will fight thru a gauntlet of sorts before decontamination.

I would not do anything to anyone that I do not have first hand knowledge of. It is extremely painful, but, if you sprayed me you better run as fast and as far as you can because with training, with the required exposure experience, you can overcome the immediate effects of OC and win a fight.

Also, there is a serious threat of secondary exposure. If you spray someone and then make contact you will be at risk. If the wind is blowing the wrong way you may get to eat some yourself. The pepper will get you from quite a distance.

Rather than learn to fight, most people do want an easy solution. What we want to show is that if not used correctly, sprays will be inneffective. We'll spray a dummy of sorts with a picture of Osama Bin Laden on the head (I wonder who this will offend?) outside the building. This will give people an idea of the reliable distance, the accuracy, and the smell. I strongly recommend buying 2 of what you will carry and practice with one.

If you become contaminated by the wind or secondary contact, it can be debilitating if you are not prepared. This is excellent street training.

Having been trained with both CS (tear gas) and OC, I can tell you OC is much, much worse. A couple of deep breaths after CS exposure and aside from a lot of snot, you are ok. With OC, it builds for hours. Some people have a delayed reaction. I saw one person walk around laughing for 5 minutes. Then, he fell to the ground and curled up into a ball whuile beating his head into the ground.

To Laird's comments, OC is just one more part of the force continuum.

Come on down... I have a very large can of the spray. You can fight Bill for first dibs on the shower.

Rich

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:27 am

Bill said: "Rich, do you think you could educate Drona on the concept? Please explain the programs which require recruits to experience these unpleasantries."

In the military, if you are going to carry OC, you are exposed to it so you know what to expect when you use it on someone. By exposed I mean a blast to the face (eyes closed). They also train a lot with secondary exposure to understand the effect. OC will be put on just about everything used in a workout so it eventually works its way into your skin, eyes, nose etc.

Most law enforcement organizations also expose the LEOs to some degree before handing them a can of the stuff.

This fall the Discovery channel will be doing a feature on the USMC Martial Arts Program. I know they have some footage of one of the OC events. After repeated exposure, the Marines barely blink! Watch for it. they might include the footage.

Yes, I am a certified user. That is me on the left... here it comes!

Rich

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:39 am

Come on down... I have a very large can of the spray. You can fight Bill for first dibs on the shower.

Your mad men!

OC spray is only marketed as a wildlife deterent in Canada. It doesn't come with a heat rating. It comes in large cans as bear spray. One can is marked .75% capsaicin the other is .857% capsaicin.I have no idea how hot this stuff is.It's pretty much all I can find. Any idea's Rich, (besides testing it:))

BTW I suspect if I spray this stuff at a Grizz I'll just be seasoning his meat for him

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:25 am

Laird asked: "One can is marked .75% capsaicin the other is .857% capsaicin.I have no idea how hot this stuff is.It's pretty much all I can find. Any idea's Rich, (besides testing it:))"

The .75% puts it around 100,000 scoville heat units. The OC I trained with was 50,000 so I can assure you .75% is mean stuff!

SABRE RED is available in most of the US over the counter and is 200,000. UGH.

The standard MACE brand is 20,000 plus includes 1% CN gas.

The police do not use the 200,000 or other really hot stuff as they just want to cuff the perp. Use 200,000 and you have someone who is in pain all day. In many jurisdictions, you spray 'em, you own 'em... until the effects have mostly worn off.

OC is a non-toxic food grade product. If you eat a lot of hot food, your reaction to it might be less than a white bread eater.

Rich

Scott Danziger · Post by **Scott Danziger** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:53 am

Can we get this on video so we can put it up on the forums and/or the video page?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:19 pm

Yes.

Still, video, or both?

- Bill