http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ting+clips
I've spend about 15 years living on military bases and I've had some military training as well. From where I sit these guys making the video are pretty much on the money.
Sorry, another no-touch video
Moderator: Available
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Willy
(Laird)I weary of the killer ninja posturing by karate types
(author not identified)"The difference between sport karate and fighting is that in sport karate you're trying to keep the man alive."
I sure didn’t have to wait long for another ninja to come running out of the bushes, they are everywhere.
So real fighting is about killing. How many people have experienced death by real Uechi in the last few years.
Is not traditional Uechi real?
I know the sport of boxing has deaths every year. So can anyone recall a death other than a farmer out of oral history a century ago.
What do the bodies just vanish when you use real karate? Cool I got to learn some of that stuff.
No offence intend folks but we are kind of silly don’t you think.
Posturing that boxing is just a sport and claiming to do the real thing. Hope it keeps y’all safe at night.
I think karate practiced by most folks is a sport.
Last edited by Willy on Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Willy
Sport
There are unfortunate incidents in hockey people die
There are unfortunate incidents in football people die
There are unfortunate incidents in boxing people die
Real karate
Apparently it’s so deadly those training it never have unfortunate incidents; everyone lives who trains in the real killing art. I never realized it before but I’m safer learning to kill than I am playing a sport. Let’s ban sport at school and teach the kids to kill!
This concludes my wee rant
There are unfortunate incidents in hockey people die
There are unfortunate incidents in football people die
There are unfortunate incidents in boxing people die
Real karate
Apparently it’s so deadly those training it never have unfortunate incidents; everyone lives who trains in the real killing art. I never realized it before but I’m safer learning to kill than I am playing a sport. Let’s ban sport at school and teach the kids to kill!
This concludes my wee rant
Well, I don't know about all that, but I do know that compliant-partners and simulated techniques (for safety reasons) are serious problems in martial arts training for real combat. Also, I do share your reaction to the ubiquitous claims of instant deadliness of martial arts techniques. You don't want to be like that old master we were looking at in the start of this thread who, after being hit, couldn't believe it. "What? You're not dead yet?" You might actually have to work for that.
Mike
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Willy
Overly compliant partners and controlled techniques is diluting and destroying all martial arts IMO. It’s turning lots of them into sport or even worse martial fantasies.
Is Judo a sport? Yup
Is BJJ a sport? Yup
Is boxing a sport? Yup
Is karate a sport? Yup
Do they have a traditional training method? Yup
Are they a martial art? They can be.
Judo is a contact sport; it’s been modified for the safety of the competitors. Rules put in place to protect the participants. Take a hip throw for example. It doesn’t do much harm on a mat with a trained break fall. Can judo be a “martial art”? Well let us modify things, do the same hip throw on the street. Drop to one knee as you throw and guide the head and neck into the concrete; allow the momentum of the throw to allow the torso to continue to travel past the pinned head and neck. A more destructive application of an entry level technique. So I’d say yes no problem Judo can be a martial art. Judo doesn’t have far to go to be effective because it is always practiced against non compliant partners. Last year a Judo guy killed a guy who attacked him with an axe. The judo guy took his attacker down and choked him until he died. So I guess Judo can stand up to the ninja test for a traditional martial art.
BJJ is like judo modified and operating within the parameters of a rule set. I know it’s a sport because when I roll I have rules to follow. So when some guy is making me submit I can’t bite his testicles or fish hook an eye or cheek to gain positional dominance because that isn’t fair. The match is stopped when someone taps out or is rendered unconscious. But BJJ is also practiced against non compliant partners. It would not take much tweaking to pass the ninja test
Boxing is a sport, it’s got rules too. It also uses mouth pieces groin protectors and gloves. When a fighter is hurt the match is not allowed to continue, this makes it a sport. The goal in boxing, render your opponent incapable of responding as a result of numerous body blows or render them unconscious by short circuiting the brain by banging the head about. This sport takes the participant closer to death than any of the other sports out their. Apparently it’s not a martial art until the goal is to actually kill. Boxing sometimes passes the ninja test by accident. Boxing is also practiced against non compliant partners. Most street fights and mma fight utilize the striking of boxing to get the job done. Not much tweaking required making this a Martial art.
Karate is a sport lots of rules etc. contact may or may not be part of the sport. Body armor may or may not be present. Match may be restart after on single technique is landed. No hard hitting is usually allowed. The head sometimes is not a valid target. The goal is to touch a scoring point. Karate is often trained with no resistance form the partner and no contact. Many techniques are misunderstood, application of technique is unknown. Many applications are taught with unrealistic Bunkai which have the student jumping over sword. Many students practice fighting by taking turns punching and then blocking. Blocking????? Many practioners do not even sport fight and practice non contact drills yet believe they can do real karate and make their techniques work. I’d say it would take some time to turn this into a “Martial art”
Martial arts need to be tested against non compliant partners, it’s not an intellectual pursuit, and it’s more of a hands on physical pursuit. I could have killed you if I landed that. Talk about your martial masturbation. No wonder we get people believing in no touch power. Hell if you don’t touch anyone but think it will work when you do…it’s but a small step to make this leap as well. Both ideas equally flawed in my book.
Is Judo a sport? Yup
Is BJJ a sport? Yup
Is boxing a sport? Yup
Is karate a sport? Yup
Do they have a traditional training method? Yup
Are they a martial art? They can be.
Judo is a contact sport; it’s been modified for the safety of the competitors. Rules put in place to protect the participants. Take a hip throw for example. It doesn’t do much harm on a mat with a trained break fall. Can judo be a “martial art”? Well let us modify things, do the same hip throw on the street. Drop to one knee as you throw and guide the head and neck into the concrete; allow the momentum of the throw to allow the torso to continue to travel past the pinned head and neck. A more destructive application of an entry level technique. So I’d say yes no problem Judo can be a martial art. Judo doesn’t have far to go to be effective because it is always practiced against non compliant partners. Last year a Judo guy killed a guy who attacked him with an axe. The judo guy took his attacker down and choked him until he died. So I guess Judo can stand up to the ninja test for a traditional martial art.
BJJ is like judo modified and operating within the parameters of a rule set. I know it’s a sport because when I roll I have rules to follow. So when some guy is making me submit I can’t bite his testicles or fish hook an eye or cheek to gain positional dominance because that isn’t fair. The match is stopped when someone taps out or is rendered unconscious. But BJJ is also practiced against non compliant partners. It would not take much tweaking to pass the ninja test
Boxing is a sport, it’s got rules too. It also uses mouth pieces groin protectors and gloves. When a fighter is hurt the match is not allowed to continue, this makes it a sport. The goal in boxing, render your opponent incapable of responding as a result of numerous body blows or render them unconscious by short circuiting the brain by banging the head about. This sport takes the participant closer to death than any of the other sports out their. Apparently it’s not a martial art until the goal is to actually kill. Boxing sometimes passes the ninja test by accident. Boxing is also practiced against non compliant partners. Most street fights and mma fight utilize the striking of boxing to get the job done. Not much tweaking required making this a Martial art.
Karate is a sport lots of rules etc. contact may or may not be part of the sport. Body armor may or may not be present. Match may be restart after on single technique is landed. No hard hitting is usually allowed. The head sometimes is not a valid target. The goal is to touch a scoring point. Karate is often trained with no resistance form the partner and no contact. Many techniques are misunderstood, application of technique is unknown. Many applications are taught with unrealistic Bunkai which have the student jumping over sword. Many students practice fighting by taking turns punching and then blocking. Blocking????? Many practioners do not even sport fight and practice non contact drills yet believe they can do real karate and make their techniques work. I’d say it would take some time to turn this into a “Martial art”
Martial arts need to be tested against non compliant partners, it’s not an intellectual pursuit, and it’s more of a hands on physical pursuit. I could have killed you if I landed that. Talk about your martial masturbation. No wonder we get people believing in no touch power. Hell if you don’t touch anyone but think it will work when you do…it’s but a small step to make this leap as well. Both ideas equally flawed in my book.
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jorvik
Boxing is cool coz you hit people .in a streetfight you hit people...in a karate class you don't hit people.
In my Uechi class they don't let you sparr open handed, or have the open sanchin guard...apparently too many folks injured their hands doing that.....so I don't agree with any theory that the open hand is better than the closed fist.
with the Uechi class as well it is very basic, I mean that in a good way
..........we are always hitting makiwaras and pads. Usually we do a front thrust kick a punch and an elbow strike...but all on the one side. I like this, a lot..because you can put everything into those three shots, line yourself up and just let go.it prepares you for the street.
I am at a kind of crossroads in my ma's again
......I have given Wing-chun a year. and now I may just switch to Uechi 
oh and get back into weights as well
.in a streetfight you hit people...in a karate class you don't hit people.In my Uechi class they don't let you sparr open handed, or have the open sanchin guard...apparently too many folks injured their hands doing that.....so I don't agree with any theory that the open hand is better than the closed fist.
with the Uechi class as well it is very basic, I mean that in a good way
..........we are always hitting makiwaras and pads. Usually we do a front thrust kick a punch and an elbow strike...but all on the one side. I like this, a lot..because you can put everything into those three shots, line yourself up and just let go.it prepares you for the street.I am at a kind of crossroads in my ma's again
......I have given Wing-chun a year. and now I may just switch to Uechi oh and get back into weights as well
I don't care to weigh in on merits of open hands and closed fists, but I can tell you that at the moment I have a bruised right thumb because on Tuesday I got tired while sparring and blocked a front kick with a lazy hand. The thumb caught the kick. What I learned from this is not that I should have made a fist but that I should still keep my g-d thumbs in when I'm blocking kicks even if (especially if) I get tired. Controlled sparring is, of course, sport.jorvik wrote: In my Uechi class they don't let you sparr open handed, or have the open sanchin guard...apparently too many folks injured their hands doing that.....so I don't agree with any theory that the open hand is better than the closed fist.
Mike
"So when some guy is making me submit I can’t bite his testicles or fish hook an eye or cheek to gain positional dominance because that isn’t fair."
It's not banned because it's not fair. You could allow both guys to do it and then it would be fair, sort of like how MMA allows both guys to do almost anything. It's banned because there is a high chance of permanent injury. If everytime you spar you have a 5% chance of going blind, after one class all 20 of your students are blind.
For whatever that is worth.
It's not banned because it's not fair. You could allow both guys to do it and then it would be fair, sort of like how MMA allows both guys to do almost anything. It's banned because there is a high chance of permanent injury. If everytime you spar you have a 5% chance of going blind, after one class all 20 of your students are blind.
For whatever that is worth.
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jorvik
I do like certain open hand techniques.but boxing has a great simplicity to it which I love.....When I went to the Uechi I hadn't sparred with anyone in eons ...and I was sparring with some black belt, who was pretty good ..and I almost caught him with a spinning back elbow....it just came out of nowhere .something in my mind said "Elbow".and they are marvelous techniques which everybody should learn ..........I taught my son how to fight and he only knows three techniques and they are a left jab a right cross then a left elbow hook to the jaw, followed by a left reverse elbow hook to the jaw then a right elbow hook to the jaw followed by a spinning back left elbow hook to the jaw 
.....when he does it.coz he was taught young it's like a bomb going off.we used to train on pads...and it sounds like double 4 time when he hits them
...and I was sparring with some black belt, who was pretty good ..and I almost caught him with a spinning back elbow....it just came out of nowhere .something in my mind said "Elbow".and they are marvelous techniques which everybody should learn ..........I taught my son how to fight and he only knows three techniques and they are a left jab a right cross then a left elbow hook to the jaw, followed by a left reverse elbow hook to the jaw then a right elbow hook to the jaw followed by a spinning back left elbow hook to the jaw .....when he does it.coz he was taught young it's like a bomb going off.we used to train on pads...and it sounds like double 4 time when he hits them http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ting+clips
I've spend about 15 years living on military bases and I've had some military training as well. From where I sit these guys making the video are pretty much on the money.
I liked the video, very informative.
The emphasis on pressure testing, and how ''sport'' systems do that is something i like in particular.
Though it had too much of a ''MMA IS THE ULTIMATE SYSTEM'' kind of feel to it.
Bas Rutten found something useful in Krav maga.
Then again, the guy he trains with has a solid muay thai record and cross trained so i guess that counts for something of a different outlook on krav maga.
Great video.
If your gonna do uechi-ryu, pick a school wisely.jorvik wrote:Boxing is cool coz you hit people
In my Uechi class they don't let you sparr open handed, or have the open sanchin guard...apparently too many folks injured their hands doing that.....so I don't agree with any theory that the open hand is better than the closed fist.
with the Uechi class as well it is very basic, I mean that in a good way
I am at a kind of crossroads in my ma's again
oh and get back into weights as well
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Jake Steinmann
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AAAhmed46 wrote:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ting+clips
I've spend about 15 years living on military bases and I've had some military training as well. From where I sit these guys making the video are pretty much on the money.
I liked the video, very informative.
The emphasis on pressure testing, and how ''sport'' systems do that is something i like in particular.
Though it had too much of a ''MMA IS THE ULTIMATE SYSTEM'' kind of feel to it.
Bas Rutten found something useful in Krav maga.
Then again, the guy he trains with has a solid muay thai record and cross trained so i guess that counts for something of a different outlook on krav maga.
Enh. It's ok, and I agree with some of it's points, but it's also a bit misleading.
Moti Hornstein's background is in Kyokushin and kickboxing, not Krav Maga. Being Jewish doesn't mean that you're doing Krav automatically.
Yes, Ranger Stott got destroyed by Kerr, but just look at the two of them; Kerr is clearly an athlete, while Stott looks like he got bitten by a radioactive spare tire.
I agree the emphasis on pressure testing and what not is important, but the video seems a bit ill thought out to me.
