In training they grab the front of the gi instead of each other's groins. But he said this was how folks could enter into many of the "same side grab, cross grab" applications they'd been shown for years AND as you pointed out - if gets one of their hands away from attacking you and puts in right where you know what to do with it.
This is one of the reasons I'm so keen on getting this guy to camp and to our dojo. A few simple comments from him have sent lots of my training in nice new directions.
Dana
One more epiphany on the path up the mountain
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
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Bill,thanks for the heads up on the book. Susan and I are going to Borders later today and I will see if I can pick it up.
>>>You know, Dana, I've always thought that the low strike and circle interpretation they do in the Uechi Seisan bunkai was absolutely pathetic. Yes, the groin strike is fine. But that move afterwards... What a crock!<<<
I agree that as a series/combination against one attacker it is a "crock". I tend to see it is as good techniques put together but not necessarily intended to be applied together. As I have said many times in the past, it seems sometime we try to fit a square peg in a round hole with kata applications.
Thinking of the block following the groin shot as a strike is great. But why practice it as a block? Why not just do it as a shuto or hammer or whatever. Would you still stand there to get the power or would you angle off slightly to get more juice on the technique? I guess that would be in bunkai application, not kata.
>>>Now if you think of that low strike as a groin strike, well the average guy is going to:
1) schooch his butt back and head forward to avoid someone messing with his package, or
2) will get hit and then double over in pain.
Now, I don't read EVERY post on this website, and I post most inconsistenly, but this is the first time I've seen anyone here address the reaction of the attacker. (I am sure it has been discussed, I've just seemed to miss it)
One of the things I liked immediately about Ed Parker's Kenpo (didn't know I did that art did ya?-I think I need a life.....) was that it included a reaction from the attacker. A lot of arts just presume the attacker will stand straight up while you blast their groin, head or whatever.
>>>>I'm more of a raking/flicking across the eyes myself to get the flinch response. <<<<
An excellent technique! You can have volumes of 'stuff', but the simplest stuff is always the most effective.
Just my two cents.
Raf
>>>You know, Dana, I've always thought that the low strike and circle interpretation they do in the Uechi Seisan bunkai was absolutely pathetic. Yes, the groin strike is fine. But that move afterwards... What a crock!<<<
I agree that as a series/combination against one attacker it is a "crock". I tend to see it is as good techniques put together but not necessarily intended to be applied together. As I have said many times in the past, it seems sometime we try to fit a square peg in a round hole with kata applications.
Thinking of the block following the groin shot as a strike is great. But why practice it as a block? Why not just do it as a shuto or hammer or whatever. Would you still stand there to get the power or would you angle off slightly to get more juice on the technique? I guess that would be in bunkai application, not kata.
>>>Now if you think of that low strike as a groin strike, well the average guy is going to:
1) schooch his butt back and head forward to avoid someone messing with his package, or
2) will get hit and then double over in pain.
Now, I don't read EVERY post on this website, and I post most inconsistenly, but this is the first time I've seen anyone here address the reaction of the attacker. (I am sure it has been discussed, I've just seemed to miss it)
One of the things I liked immediately about Ed Parker's Kenpo (didn't know I did that art did ya?-I think I need a life.....) was that it included a reaction from the attacker. A lot of arts just presume the attacker will stand straight up while you blast their groin, head or whatever.
>>>>I'm more of a raking/flicking across the eyes myself to get the flinch response. <<<<
An excellent technique! You can have volumes of 'stuff', but the simplest stuff is always the most effective.
Just my two cents.
Raf
Hello Raffi- we are still using those practice knives you got for us in 1996!!!!
We try to include the reaction of the attacker in our practice. We use a realistic, but controlled, attacker reaction response. Many of the techniques in kata (both open handed and weapons) only make sense if response/reaction is considered. Simple sequential strikes in many cases are targeted where the opponents body "will be." (Like in seisan, the kick followed by the knee strike I think is an apparent example-where did that tackle come from?) The response of the attacker must be realistic with a fundamental understanding of body mechanics, "pain response" and your reference to "flinching."
The SCARS training films depict a system of selfdefense that employed the oponents reaction.
I believe that training must include a realistic "attacker reaction response" to create appropriate instinctive survial reflexes. Bunkai and prearranged drills that continually reinforce opponents "standing tall" or straight up,create bad habits and inferior survival instincts.They also deprive students of insight into the richness of kata and creative training drills.
Rafi-how have you been?
Ron Klein
We try to include the reaction of the attacker in our practice. We use a realistic, but controlled, attacker reaction response. Many of the techniques in kata (both open handed and weapons) only make sense if response/reaction is considered. Simple sequential strikes in many cases are targeted where the opponents body "will be." (Like in seisan, the kick followed by the knee strike I think is an apparent example-where did that tackle come from?) The response of the attacker must be realistic with a fundamental understanding of body mechanics, "pain response" and your reference to "flinching."
The SCARS training films depict a system of selfdefense that employed the oponents reaction.
I believe that training must include a realistic "attacker reaction response" to create appropriate instinctive survial reflexes. Bunkai and prearranged drills that continually reinforce opponents "standing tall" or straight up,create bad habits and inferior survival instincts.They also deprive students of insight into the richness of kata and creative training drills.
Rafi-how have you been?
Ron Klein
“Dignitus, virtus et reverentia.”
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
Hello Ron!
Good to see you back here posting again. I am well, thank you for asking. I remember those knives I got for you. They were metal and back then there were no choices for such a thing. Now they are everywhere and some really cool stuff too.
I actually had the set of SCARS tapes. Overall, I didn't like them, but they did get into the idea of reactions from your attacker after you have hit him.
Will you be making the trip to summer camp?
Regards,
Raffi
Good to see you back here posting again. I am well, thank you for asking. I remember those knives I got for you. They were metal and back then there were no choices for such a thing. Now they are everywhere and some really cool stuff too.
I actually had the set of SCARS tapes. Overall, I didn't like them, but they did get into the idea of reactions from your attacker after you have hit him.
Will you be making the trip to summer camp?
Regards,
Raffi
