What does the PETA say to veggeitarians who eat fish?

[f.Channell]

Problem is most leafy vegetables are fertilized with bone meal or dried blood from the slaughter house or they don't grow.

Any of you guys garden???

And potatoes have "eyes" and also "ear" of corn, "head" of lettuce.

Sorry couldn't help the last part.

F.

[chef]

I am a Master Gardener but I prefer good ol' aged 'cow poop' myself.

Just comes from the end of one animal...

Vicki

[Bill Glasheen]

Fred has a point, Vicki.

Cow poop is high in nitrogen, but lacking in phosphorous, potash, iron, and other key trace nutrients. As you well know... The three numbers on a bag of fertilizer stand for the percentage of nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium respectively. The saying amongst gardeners is that the three numbers help a plant grow up, down, and all around. If you look at a bag of manure-base fertilizer down at Southern States, it's in the neighborhood of 10-0-0.

The bone meal is a great source of phosphorous - needed to help plants grow strong roots and also to help them bloom. Blood is a great source of both nitrogen and iron. And as you know, chlorophyll needs iron in it to do its magic photosynthesis. Chlorophyll is to plants as hemoglobin is to animals, and both use iron to do what they do.

An example of a well-respected fertilizer company is Espoma.

The Espoma Company, headquartered in Millville, NJ, is the leading manufacturer and marketer of natural and organic based plant foods for the lawn and garden industry. Our brands, including Holly-tone, Plant-tone and Rose-tone, are recognized by professional and amateur gardeners as the finest, safest, and most reliable plant foods available.

If you ask me, using organic rather than non-organic (Arab oil products) ingredients is a responsible thing to do.

Check out the following link from their company for some interesting information on sources of the many (15) nutrients they have in their fertilizers. You'll see a lot of animal products there.

Understanding Plant Nutrition

Nice try, vegetarians. You think you aren't consuming animals or animal by-products? Guess again. And that's the way nature intended it. Ash to ash, and dust to dust.

The Great Plains had some of the most fertile soil anywhere in the world because of the animals who grazed on it. They not only pooped on it, but they perished there as well (naturally or from carnivorous activity), which recycled precious ingredients back into the soil for plants to use all over again.

Early European settlers survived the first few winters here because Native Americans taught them how to farm. One of their special tricks? They threw a fish into the ground under every kernel of corn planted. It provided many key ingredients needed for the nutrient-hungry corn to thrive.

Following is an abstract from a publication which shows how smart these Native Americans were.

Fish emulsion as a food base for rhizobacteria promoting growth of radish (Raphanus sativus L. var. sativus) in a sandy soil


Journal - Plant and Soil
Publisher - Springer Netherlands
ISSN - 0032-079X (Print) 1573-5036 (Online)
Subject - Biomedical and Life Sciences and Earth and Environmental Science
Issue - Volume 252, Number 2 / May, 2003
DOI - 10.1023/A:1024729620154
Pages - 397-411
SpringerLink Date - Tuesday, November 02, 2004


Khaled A. El-Tarabily1, 2, Amr H. Nassar1, 2, Giles E. St. J. Hardy3 and Krishnapillai Sivasithamparam4

(1) Department of Biology, Faculty of Science, United Arab Emirates University, Al-Ain, 17551, United Arab Emirates
(2) Present address: Department of Microbiology and Botany, University of Ain Shams, Cairo, 11566, Egypt
(3) School of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology, Division of Science and Engineering, Murdoch University, Murdoch, W.A., 6150, Australia
(4) Soil Science and Plant Nutrition, School of Earth and Geographical Sciences, Faculty of Natural and Agricultural Sciences, University of Western Australia, 35 Stirling Highway, Crawley, W.A., 6009, Australia


Abstract Commercial fish emulsion was evaluated as a plant growth medium and as a nutrient base to enhance radish (Raphanus sativus L. var. sativus) growth by bacterial and actinomycete isolates. Six bacterial isolates including three actinomycetes were selected from a screening of 54 bacteria (including 23 actinomycetes) based on their ability to produce plant growth regulators (PGRs) and to colonize radish roots. These isolates were tested in the presence and absence of autoclaved or non-autoclaved fish emulsion or inorganic fertilizers. The nutrient contents and types and levels of PGRs in tissues of treated plants were assayed to determine the basis of growth promotion. Fish emulsion was found to support plant growth in a sandy soil as effectively as an applied inorganic fertilizer. The plant growth promotion by bacterial and actinomycete isolates was most pronounced in the presence of autoclaved or non-autoclaved fish emulsion than in the presence of the inorganic fertilizers. The bacterial and actinomycete isolates were capable of producing auxins, gibberellins and cytokinins and appeared to use fish emulsion as a source of nutrients and precursors for PGRs. PGR levels in planta following combined treatments of the bacterial and actinomycete isolates and fish emulsion were found to be significantly enhanced over other treatments. The effect of fish emulsion appears to be more related to its role as a nutrient base for the bacterial and actinomycete isolates rather than to the increased activity of the general microflora of treated soil. This is the first report of fish emulsion as a nutrient base for plant growth promoting rhizobacteria. These results also indicate that the successful treatment can be effective and economical for horticultural production in sandy soils such as those found in the United Arab Emirates where fish emulsion is already in use as a substitute or supplement for inorganic fertilizer.

- Bill

[chef]

Right, Bill. thank you.

Vicki

[Dale Houser]

Fine Print: I am no way against vegetarians or carnivores, etc. The t-shirt made me want to find some other funnies. So here you are:

[f.Channell]

Hey Vicki,

I expect to see some pictures of some monstrous lettuce heads next year now!

Key to fertilizer, first number up, second number down, third number all around.

So root veggies want a high middle number. Leafy ones a high first number.

Or just use a 10-10-10 for a good basic all around.

And nothing wrong with cow poop, good stuff. can't get that around here too easy.

And Bill, I don't know if I buy the fish story, probably was lobsters as the Indians and Pilgrims could pick them off the beach and they didn't eat them. Next time I go to the plantation I'll ask.

F.

[jorvik]

I used to grow my own vegetables, but had to stop for various reasons anyway, the nicest veg are home grown. I grew potatoes,onions and tomatoes and made bombay potatoes with them....absolutely gorgeous .........and I also made onion Bahjis...everybody said they were the best they ever tasted .when you grow your own you can't go wrong

[Willy]

100% in agreement mate!

[Bill Glasheen]

Fred

It was Squanto ( "Tisquantum" or "Squanto" of the Pokanokit Wampanoag nation) who taught the Pilgrims the practice. The only thing in question is where he learned it from, as he traveled internationally before meeting Miles Standish and the Pilgrims.

As it turns out, many other Native American farming practices were in existence at the time. They mostly did a lot of crop rotation, land "resting", and burning.

For more on the controversy, check out the following reference. Unfortunately I can't get to it online here, so can't cut and paste from the article.

Ceci L (1975) Fish fertilizer: A native North American practice? Science 188: 26-30.

- Bill

[Willy]

It probably a good practice in the beginning. But the by product of emulsion fertilizer is fish meal which is fed to livestock. I don't know about you but I hate it when my bacon tastes fishy.

Lots of fish plant waste spread on crops in Atlantic Provinces. Buy the produce but be wary of the pork

[f.Channell]

I know about Squanto Bill. He probably ran by my house a few times on the old indian trail to Boston right next to me.

I just can't see going to all the trouble of going out in a boat fishing just to catch fish to throw in the ground.

Then if you consider the thousands of seeds they must have planted it seems, well..........fishy.

Dead fish on the beach sure. Although our waters weren't polluted then like now. Although it's inproved as of late.

My 10th grandfather didn't get here until 1632 so they had all that sorted out by then.
F.

[Willy]

So you always eat the skin heads and guts Fred, nothing goes to the compost, field or dust bin? Why not help out your crop? Wo cares what some guy in the oral history did.

[f.Channell]

Hey Laird.

Typically fish and meat aren't composted because they attract racoons and the like. At least I don't. And they may have been likely to dig up the seed corn as well, getting to the fish.

I imagine the natives would have used every drop of the fish for soup and what have you.

Not saying it's not true, just seems unlikely is all. Maybe I'll stick in some fish this spring and see what happens when I plant corn.

What do I know anyway, animals get most of my crops! Deer, squirrels, rabbits and the rest. At least back then they could shoot em and eat em also. No hunting season.

Maybe folks wouldn't be vegetarians if they caught them in their garden beds eating their hard work.

I do manage to get some and feed the rabbit and guinea pigs also.
They love the fresh veggies.

F.

[Willy]

yeah good point Fred. Most of my garden goes to the elk. But what they don't get is better than what safeway is selling. A few coons in the garden is an added bonus get your self some traps and sell the fur and compost their bodies.

We have never added fish parts to the compost pile. they are stored in mason jars in the sun for trapping season. But lots of animal bones have made it to the compost heap. Usually after making soup. No problem with critters in the compost. Maybe thats related to the shotgun.

[Bill Glasheen]

I actually put this into practice.

I grew up in Hampton, Virginia, which is a city on the Hampton Roads Harbor. Hampton is the source of a lot of fish for east coast fish markets. We had a fish place right down the street that took the stuff off the boats, and they cleaned them right there in their fish shop. Every day they'd have a few trash cans full of innards. There was always plenty of this fish "stuff" we could use as free fertilizer. What we did is pour trash cans full of the stuff over the ground for a few days. Once we got enough (and pissed the neighbors off enough from the odor ), then we'd turn the soil and plow it all under. Planting was next. It worked great.

You have to grow up around this stuff to understand how it works, Fred. I grew up in a town where as boys we'd go fishing out on the duck blinds as a social occasion. We'd come home, clean the fish, and eat them that night. But we'd save the fish heads and guts. The next day, we'd go out with the fish waste and use it as bait to catch crabs. We'd get a dozen or two blue crabs, bring them home, steam, clean them all at once, and have a feast.

Nothing was wasted.

I'm not an expert on Native American culture and practices. But it was my observation that they (on average) were more in equilibrium with their external environment than the anglo saxons who came after them. The early European settlers would farm a piece of land until it was wasted, and then move west. They'd hunt buffalo for sport. My great grandfather (Bill McCarthy) used to tell my dad that he and the boys (including Buffalo Bill if we can believe his Irish stories) would sit in the box cars of moving trains and have target practice on the nearby bison. Meanwhile, many Native Americans live in coexistence with these creatures, and used any and all of their parts after a hunt.

We (Europeans immigrants et al) have gotten better...

- Bill