There must not be too many people interested in putting one together, and it is as easy as 1-2-3.
I just found out a few minutes ago that Maxtor is buying-out Quantum. Surprise to me.
Maxtor, by the way, has a BMF jumbo hard drive that's 80 Gigabytes big. I looked at the box, and athough it is ata-100 (newest breed of IDEs), it is a 5400 rpm-er and the axxess time is only 9 ms. To me that is slow by today's standards.
Maxtor, at the beginning of the year had some large drives, the 40 Giggers, running at 7200 rpm. They run hot, almost as hot as the 10,000 rpm SCSI drives, and I think the failure rate was high because they need to be properly cooled.
I'm still waiting on a new power supply setup, on order, so I can get my AMD 1.1 chip running.
Kit This
Moderator: Scott Danziger
Kit This
Yep, it's easy... if that's what you want to do with your time. 
(sorry, had to play devil's advocate)
I used to know some of the folks that worked in DEC's Storage group that got sold to Quantum. I was talking with one a few years back and he was telling me about some of the cooling/MTBF problems with the larger drives and higher access speeds. Right now, getting 20,30 or 40 gig drives are trivial and they usually have higher access rates than the big iron. Putting two 30 or 40 gig drives into the same box isn't that big a deal anymore either. Used to be a b-i-itchy to try hooking up a Maxim and say, a Western Digital drive together and get all the damn jumpers set just right!
I've been holding out on the upgrade until the new P-IIIs that are running at 1-1.2 are more stable. Basically it's because I run some specific apps that I'm still waiting to confirm won't have compatibility problems with the AMD uPs... Have you found or heard of any compatability problems with the Athelons? Generally, I've only heard extreme praise.
Thanks...
(sorry, had to play devil's advocate)I used to know some of the folks that worked in DEC's Storage group that got sold to Quantum. I was talking with one a few years back and he was telling me about some of the cooling/MTBF problems with the larger drives and higher access speeds. Right now, getting 20,30 or 40 gig drives are trivial and they usually have higher access rates than the big iron. Putting two 30 or 40 gig drives into the same box isn't that big a deal anymore either. Used to be a b-i-itchy to try hooking up a Maxim and say, a Western Digital drive together and get all the damn jumpers set just right!
I've been holding out on the upgrade until the new P-IIIs that are running at 1-1.2 are more stable. Basically it's because I run some specific apps that I'm still waiting to confirm won't have compatibility problems with the AMD uPs... Have you found or heard of any compatability problems with the Athelons? Generally, I've only heard extreme praise.
Thanks...
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Allen M.
Kit This
Time? I can put a pc together in 15-30 mins. Install OS and a few other goodies in under an hour. [Had to throw that in too 
].
I think nothing is incompatible with AMD. Research the MB. Only onne problem with the new 1.1's, and they're just finding it out, is that the standard 300 watt power supply is too small.
I'm waiting for the Itanium for my next Intel chip....
Used to bitchy installing hard drives? Remember when you had to know everything about the drive before you could set it up in the BIOS? Now it's all automatic.
].I think nothing is incompatible with AMD. Research the MB. Only onne problem with the new 1.1's, and they're just finding it out, is that the standard 300 watt power supply is too small.
I'm waiting for the Itanium for my next Intel chip....
Used to bitchy installing hard drives? Remember when you had to know everything about the drive before you could set it up in the BIOS? Now it's all automatic.
Kit This
OR "automagic" as I like to tell people...
P-IV, Itanium... I get a new machine every year (or less) at work, but I'm still using an old Pentium200 w/ MMX (not a P-III) at home. That box (by the time I added the extra RAM, video RAM, and HDD) cost over double what you can get a P-III 800MHz or a slower AMD box for (and these new boxes come with the RAM, video RAM, and HDD already)! And then I added all of my goodies! Special SW +$700 +$349, special HW +$695 +$495 +$399 +$289 ... not to mention the custom-built EISA board I did myself. Heck, that EISA board's probably useless in a new box... even if it has EISA connects, the board was faster than the old box, but with the new 100-133-150MHz bus speeds being used now, there's no way in hades for it to keep up. 'sOK, I don't really need it anymore anyway...
And "in my day", there wasn't any WWW with all the fancy graphics... Everything was done through e-mail, UUnet and newsgroups... We didn't have any purdy pictures, we had to download, paste together and decrypt everything... None of that PGP encryption either... all we had was ROT13!!!
P-IV, Itanium... I get a new machine every year (or less) at work, but I'm still using an old Pentium200 w/ MMX (not a P-III) at home. That box (by the time I added the extra RAM, video RAM, and HDD) cost over double what you can get a P-III 800MHz or a slower AMD box for (and these new boxes come with the RAM, video RAM, and HDD already)! And then I added all of my goodies! Special SW +$700 +$349, special HW +$695 +$495 +$399 +$289 ... not to mention the custom-built EISA board I did myself. Heck, that EISA board's probably useless in a new box... even if it has EISA connects, the board was faster than the old box, but with the new 100-133-150MHz bus speeds being used now, there's no way in hades for it to keep up. 'sOK, I don't really need it anymore anyway...
And "in my day", there wasn't any WWW with all the fancy graphics... Everything was done through e-mail, UUnet and newsgroups... We didn't have any purdy pictures, we had to download, paste together and decrypt everything... None of that PGP encryption either... all we had was ROT13!!!
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gmattson
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6073
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Lake Mary, Florida
- Contact:
Kit This
Like many others, I've been following the discussion with interest. Pather has it right. . . For most of us, the option to upgrade today is not very feasible or cost effective.
I upgraded my old 386 almost on a monthly basis. However, I had to take my machine to a specialist who added the components. A few years back, this option was perfectly reasonable, as the price of a new machine was quite expensive.
Today, the computer is a throwaway commodity, like a TV or VCR. Replacing the computer today is about the same price as replacing a couple of the major components.
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GEM
I upgraded my old 386 almost on a monthly basis. However, I had to take my machine to a specialist who added the components. A few years back, this option was perfectly reasonable, as the price of a new machine was quite expensive.
Today, the computer is a throwaway commodity, like a TV or VCR. Replacing the computer today is about the same price as replacing a couple of the major components.
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GEM
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Allen M.
Kit This
Timing on these things (trend analysis, or keeping the ear to the pavement) and knowing what to replace is everything.
Me, I usually replace the motherboard, chip, and and sometimes the case, and sell-off the old system while it is still marketable. When I get a new SCSI drive, for instance, the 17 or 25 gig EIDE becomes a selling feature. Same when I replaced the pci video with agp2, then agp4.
Now, the other alternative is to hang on to the old klunker until it clunks no more then go to Circuit City and get the one that dazzles you the most.
To be frank, Panther and George, If I didn't need this thing to pay the rent, I'd probably still use my old Kaypro 4MHz CPM machine with Wordstar.
Me, I usually replace the motherboard, chip, and and sometimes the case, and sell-off the old system while it is still marketable. When I get a new SCSI drive, for instance, the 17 or 25 gig EIDE becomes a selling feature. Same when I replaced the pci video with agp2, then agp4.
Now, the other alternative is to hang on to the old klunker until it clunks no more then go to Circuit City and get the one that dazzles you the most.
To be frank, Panther and George, If I didn't need this thing to pay the rent, I'd probably still use my old Kaypro 4MHz CPM machine with Wordstar.
Kit This
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
... I'd probably still use my old Kaypro 4MHz CPM machine with Wordstar.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROTFLMAO!
Wordstar!
Kaypro!
And to think I was afraid of dating myself!
Jump in and help me razz anytime Mattson-sensei...
(smiley-captioned for the humor-impaired... and all the young-uns that don't understand aging jokes between "old fahts"...)
... I'd probably still use my old Kaypro 4MHz CPM machine with Wordstar.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROTFLMAO!
Wordstar!
Kaypro!
And to think I was afraid of dating myself!
Jump in and help me razz anytime Mattson-sensei...
(smiley-captioned for the humor-impaired... and all the young-uns that don't understand aging jokes between "old fahts"...)
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Allen M.
Kit This
Kaypro isn't the first. I started with a Trash-80 then an apple with 54k memory and 100k floppies when they were the hottest things on the block.
You might appreciate this, Panther...
I started my engineering profession by throwing a bunch of front panel toggle switches in octal to represent one CPU instruction, then pressed this humungous black button to send the instruction to the CPU. Also, when I was into hardware, I used to calculate spacecraft trajectories with a slide rule and used CRC tables for trigonometric interpolation. And this was at one of the most advanced engineering laboratories in the world.
Need the smiley faces, Panther, because at our age we can't read anymore.
You might appreciate this, Panther...
I started my engineering profession by throwing a bunch of front panel toggle switches in octal to represent one CPU instruction, then pressed this humungous black button to send the instruction to the CPU. Also, when I was into hardware, I used to calculate spacecraft trajectories with a slide rule and used CRC tables for trigonometric interpolation. And this was at one of the most advanced engineering laboratories in the world.
Need the smiley faces, Panther, because at our age we can't read anymore.
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gmattson
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6073
- Joined: Wed Sep 16, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Lake Mary, Florida
- Contact:
Kit This
My first computer was a Kaypro as well. Great little machine (Portable at 50 pounds!)
Remember how a letter was written? Two or three steps before you were ready to print it! I belonged to the Computer society in Boston, where we would meet once a month to exchange programs and games.
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GEM
Remember how a letter was written? Two or three steps before you were ready to print it! I belonged to the Computer society in Boston, where we would meet once a month to exchange programs and games.
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GEM
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Allen M.
Kit This
George! Why you [old?] hacker, you! The entire word processor PLUS all your documents would fit on ONE floppy disk. My, haven't we advanced since the early eighties!
My first Kaypro was a 2MHz machine. I went inside, cut some of the PC (Printed Circuit)foil on the motherboard and soldered some wires on some of the chips, and Voila! Instant 4MHz. If I could only double the clock speed like that on a 1.1GHz machine.
My first Kaypro was a 2MHz machine. I went inside, cut some of the PC (Printed Circuit)foil on the motherboard and soldered some wires on some of the chips, and Voila! Instant 4MHz. If I could only double the clock speed like that on a 1.1GHz machine.
Kit This
Slide Rule
Went back to school (early mid-life crisis) to get a degree in engineering. Had one professor that prohibited calculators. he did it to stop all of the kids from programming all the formulas into their hand-helds...
On the final exam (4 hours), these kids were sweating bullets trying to get the answers... I asked the professor if I could use a slide-rule. After one of the biggest grins I think I've ever seen, he allowed it. I got the highest grade in the class and one of the kids asked me afterwards, "What's that? How does it work? Where do the batteries go?"
Went back to school (early mid-life crisis) to get a degree in engineering. Had one professor that prohibited calculators. he did it to stop all of the kids from programming all the formulas into their hand-helds...
On the final exam (4 hours), these kids were sweating bullets trying to get the answers... I asked the professor if I could use a slide-rule. After one of the biggest grins I think I've ever seen, he allowed it. I got the highest grade in the class and one of the kids asked me afterwards, "What's that? How does it work? Where do the batteries go?"
Kit This
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
Remember Nixie Tube calculators, Panther? They were about a foot square with actual vacuum tubes displaying the numbers on separate lit filaments. Anything required to go out to seven decimal places at work required one of those. It only did basic arithmetic (+,-,*,/), but there was only one in the group, a sign-out sheet involved, and a waiting line to get to it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummmm.... I think I saw one once... in a museum!
I remember when my Daddy got his first TI calculator. He was an architect who did all of the structural calculations because he didn't trust those damn structural engineers he was required to hire by law... caught more than one major error too. That TI only did the basic functions as well, BUT it had one very special function that over doubled the price (to ~$600, yeah a pocket calculator). That function was the infamous square-root!
I remember taking calc and then talking with my Daddy about it. I was hoping to explain a quicker way to do the calculations and diff eqs to him. He had a HS diploma and had apprenticed, read and self-taught himself his passion of architecture. So, I'm explaining this and he tells me that calculus is beyond him... Upon which he proceeds to give me a detailed lesson in Taylor Series manipulation and the fact that he had figured out years before that if you just do this, just do that, and move this over here... then you get the same exact answer without doing all the work the other way! (Ummmm, so he figured out calculus... Did I ever feel like a dummy... ) Different tactic required, start talking diff eqs... Seems he had basically figured those out as well, except that he didn't know the constant "e" and had always done it out longhand until he found the constant in a book. That's when he rattled off, "2.718281828459045"... Hmmmmm.
Remember Nixie Tube calculators, Panther? They were about a foot square with actual vacuum tubes displaying the numbers on separate lit filaments. Anything required to go out to seven decimal places at work required one of those. It only did basic arithmetic (+,-,*,/), but there was only one in the group, a sign-out sheet involved, and a waiting line to get to it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ummmm.... I think I saw one once... in a museum!
I remember when my Daddy got his first TI calculator. He was an architect who did all of the structural calculations because he didn't trust those damn structural engineers he was required to hire by law... caught more than one major error too. That TI only did the basic functions as well, BUT it had one very special function that over doubled the price (to ~$600, yeah a pocket calculator). That function was the infamous square-root!
I remember taking calc and then talking with my Daddy about it. I was hoping to explain a quicker way to do the calculations and diff eqs to him. He had a HS diploma and had apprenticed, read and self-taught himself his passion of architecture. So, I'm explaining this and he tells me that calculus is beyond him... Upon which he proceeds to give me a detailed lesson in Taylor Series manipulation and the fact that he had figured out years before that if you just do this, just do that, and move this over here... then you get the same exact answer without doing all the work the other way! (Ummmm, so he figured out calculus... Did I ever feel like a dummy...
) Different tactic required, start talking diff eqs... Seems he had basically figured those out as well, except that he didn't know the constant "e" and had always done it out longhand until he found the constant in a book. That's when he rattled off, "2.718281828459045"... Hmmmmm.-
Allen M.
Kit This
Nixie Tube or Bust
Those were the days, eh Panther? Men of steel and calculators of wood. Now both are made out of plastic. I still have a pocket slide rule and have always wanted to put it in a glass enclosure with a sign like "In Case of Power Failure Break Glass" or something like that. There were so many kinds of slide rules years back, including circular ones [they were cool], but my favorite was the one that did all the X-sub-L, X-sub-C, and reactance calculations (XL and XC). I was into RF in those days.
I also returned to college when scientific calculators were popular. They were not allowed in any of my Calculus courses. Real numbers were pretty much forbidden and the results were expected in some sort of whole number fractional representation or factor of pi, or a factor of some other unit with the way to solutions contrived as to make calculators pretty useless anyway. Put a decimal notation in the answer and it was wrong. Students had to think, a lost art.
Remember Nixie Tube calculators, Panther? They were about a foot square with actual vacuum tubes displaying the numbers on separate lit filaments. Anything required to go out to seven decimal places at work required one of those. It only did basic arithmetic (+,-,*,/), but there was only one in the group, a sign-out sheet involved, and a waiting line to get to it.
Those were the days, eh Panther? Men of steel and calculators of wood. Now both are made out of plastic. I still have a pocket slide rule and have always wanted to put it in a glass enclosure with a sign like "In Case of Power Failure Break Glass" or something like that. There were so many kinds of slide rules years back, including circular ones [they were cool], but my favorite was the one that did all the X-sub-L, X-sub-C, and reactance calculations (XL and XC). I was into RF in those days.
I also returned to college when scientific calculators were popular. They were not allowed in any of my Calculus courses. Real numbers were pretty much forbidden and the results were expected in some sort of whole number fractional representation or factor of pi, or a factor of some other unit with the way to solutions contrived as to make calculators pretty useless anyway. Put a decimal notation in the answer and it was wrong. Students had to think, a lost art.
Remember Nixie Tube calculators, Panther? They were about a foot square with actual vacuum tubes displaying the numbers on separate lit filaments. Anything required to go out to seven decimal places at work required one of those. It only did basic arithmetic (+,-,*,/), but there was only one in the group, a sign-out sheet involved, and a waiting line to get to it.
