Student-san,
Beautiful clarification! Thank you! This entire topic has to do with PERCEPTIONS - and as such - our gender is going to influence these - causes problems in discussions, relationships, you name it!
All,
How many times have you been misinterpreted by someone of the other gender for whatEVER reason? And the resultant feelings of anger and mistrust (because they just don't GET what you are trying to say) cloud the perceptions and thus the communication even farther...
I think a VERY good point is made by student-san (thank you!) that at times we need to consider the perspective (in this and many cases GENDER) of the sender and the receiver of the message. I believe that is what got my ire up when the first conversation happened. How DARE anyone even say that a woman asked for it. While admitting that some are perhaps "professional" victims - I resented - without even identifying the cause - that a male would make such a statement - much as Shelly-san says - without knowing the particulars. Trying to see the other side... I can see a male perception - predominantly left-brained, logical analytical - (I'm not making generalizations here - just looking at some educational learning-style research) attacking the problem from a situational standpoint. What could she have done differently? etc.
What we women need to realize - is that many of these comments coming from men are probably not meant to be as judgemental as we perceive them. They are simply stating the problem from their view - which is a different way of looking at things - more "just the facts m'am" while we women will "feel" the situation, perhaps even identify with it - empathize - and displace the anger to the entire male population either directly or indirectly with our response.
What men could try to realize - is that any attack, on any woman - is going to have a serious emotional impact on any woman hearing/talking/thinking about it. This will in turn cause her responses to be more emotionally based, launching from an intuitive level vs. the logical one that many men come from. This is not to say that this is true of EVERY member of each gender, but part of the reason this forum even came about is to recognize that some of these differences manifest themselves in many ways - including how we work out and interact with each other in the martial world.
Thanks to both Shelly-san and Tony-san we've seen some excellent points brought out on this issue - I thank you both - and also the other contributors who helped round out the topic.
Student-san, you take the cake. Great job - well-timed and well-put. I'm glad you found (and joined in!) our forums.
Peace,
Lori
She deserved it
Moderator: Available
She deserved it
Bless you all - I really was expecting to be jumped on as being a chauvininst, etc.
Wow.
Nice to know that I hang out with classy people.
Gee; I'm feeling so good, I think I'll go out and train some more....
student
P.S. Maybe this would be more appropriate in the other thread, but I have been using the -chan honorific in a 'student see, student do' sort of way. It seemed to be the thing to do here. If any of the ladies here feel slighted by it, 'twas not meant in that manner. Let me know and I'll stop.
[This message has been edited by student (edited February 12, 2000).]
Wow.
Nice to know that I hang out with classy people.
Gee; I'm feeling so good, I think I'll go out and train some more....
student
P.S. Maybe this would be more appropriate in the other thread, but I have been using the -chan honorific in a 'student see, student do' sort of way. It seemed to be the thing to do here. If any of the ladies here feel slighted by it, 'twas not meant in that manner. Let me know and I'll stop.
[This message has been edited by student (edited February 12, 2000).]
She deserved it
Karate prayer:
May we always receive respect, for who we are, and may we always know that we deserve respect, and how to get it.
kara-te has no gender, but only the strength of love which is generated by the innocent play of yin-yang, each secure in the knowledge that they could not exist without each other.
your white belt in play,
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited February 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited February 11, 2000).]
May we always receive respect, for who we are, and may we always know that we deserve respect, and how to get it.
kara-te has no gender, but only the strength of love which is generated by the innocent play of yin-yang, each secure in the knowledge that they could not exist without each other.
your white belt in play,
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited February 11, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited February 11, 2000).]
-
Shelly King
She deserved it
Tony-san
I made YOU blush....any chance of getting a picture of THAT!
------------------
Shelly
I made YOU blush....any chance of getting a picture of THAT!
------------------
Shelly
-
Gilbert MacIntyre
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Sydney, NS, Canada
She deserved it
I can not believe that anyone with a shread of decency or compassion would actually put blame on a woman who has been raped! A week ago or so there was a NYPD Blue episode where two of the characters were all but undressed and in bed when the female decided it was a mistake. The male, although frustrated, complied. I rememeber thinking it's about time that society puts out messages that rape is not acceptable not matter what the circumstance.
A woman can not be punished, by rape, for bad taste or bad judgement. If we, under a thread such as this, labelled "She deserved it", support the thought that if women don't dress the way men think appropriate, they are to blame should they be raped, then we are as much a part of the problem as the rapist. Allow people to visit this site and see that we believe women who dress sexy and get raped have no one to blame but themselves and we are telling the rapist to go ahead.
People seem to look up to us as martial artists and I believe we have a responsibility to state that right through might is not acceptable.
I'm very sorry for seeming to be aggressive here, but I believe that I must stand for what I believe is right, and blaming the victim of a rape is wrong.
I would advise my daughters to dress respectfully, however I'm sure you will agree what is respectable now, is not the same as what was respectable in the last generation. Which maybe isn't bad if rapists would stick to their own age group. Even at that, when men go out in public dressed in dirty gym pants or ripped shirts, in general looking like trash, is it all right for the rest of us to spit on them or throw more garbage their way? I raised my son to respect all people regardless of their ideas in relation to his.
Rape is a crime of power, not of sex or passion. Nobody has the right to rape anyone, I don't care if they're walking down the street naked. I refuse to take a postion that would ease that outlook.
I know you are saying play it safe and be wise to the ways of the world. I agree, but that message shouldn't have any acceptance of rape included.
Once again I apologize for my agression, but I cannot condone prejudice against dress any more than I would prejudice against race or religion or thought/ideas
------------------
Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. proverbs 22:6
A woman can not be punished, by rape, for bad taste or bad judgement. If we, under a thread such as this, labelled "She deserved it", support the thought that if women don't dress the way men think appropriate, they are to blame should they be raped, then we are as much a part of the problem as the rapist. Allow people to visit this site and see that we believe women who dress sexy and get raped have no one to blame but themselves and we are telling the rapist to go ahead.
People seem to look up to us as martial artists and I believe we have a responsibility to state that right through might is not acceptable.
I'm very sorry for seeming to be aggressive here, but I believe that I must stand for what I believe is right, and blaming the victim of a rape is wrong.
I would advise my daughters to dress respectfully, however I'm sure you will agree what is respectable now, is not the same as what was respectable in the last generation. Which maybe isn't bad if rapists would stick to their own age group. Even at that, when men go out in public dressed in dirty gym pants or ripped shirts, in general looking like trash, is it all right for the rest of us to spit on them or throw more garbage their way? I raised my son to respect all people regardless of their ideas in relation to his.
Rape is a crime of power, not of sex or passion. Nobody has the right to rape anyone, I don't care if they're walking down the street naked. I refuse to take a postion that would ease that outlook.
I know you are saying play it safe and be wise to the ways of the world. I agree, but that message shouldn't have any acceptance of rape included.
Once again I apologize for my agression, but I cannot condone prejudice against dress any more than I would prejudice against race or religion or thought/ideas
------------------
Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. proverbs 22:6
She deserved it
The above are all very sound arguments! What is very difficult to accept is that things “just are” in this life, and that in spite of personal belief systems and strong feelings about how we would like to see “things be”, the “human condition” marches on!
I have investigated countless rape incidents, assaults, bar fights, women provoking fights, men fighting over stupid things, and what it all came down to was a perception of signals, real or imagined received through the fog of dope, liquor, preconceived notions and utter stupidity, in addition to the criminal component of just “preying” on someone!
And , we now have the so-called “thrill kills” with the perpetrators using a very twisted sense of “profiling” their victims!
And so it is wise to put aside our feelings of righteousness and navigate life with common sense at the helm!
Simple people and predators alike read our every verbal/non verbal, conscious, and unconscious emotional driven “transmissions” instantly, causing a twang of their deep preconceived psychic string! That sets off subliminal emotional stirrings simmering beneath the threshold of awareness that have a very powerful impact on how we perceive and react!
Some strange primeval urges take shape in our “depths” very difficult to recognize and control! And so the perceived stimulus, acting upon an underlying “emotional defect” can trigger all kinds of obnoxious and nasty behavior!
And not to be sexist, because the following applies to both sexes, but how many fights have we seen flowing from trouble caused by women?
Take, for example, the typical situation where the woman “uses” someone to make her boyfriend jealous! This is what I mean about common sense!
The woman doesn’t take into account how the “make up” of a man “reacts” to such a situation! Even if he wants to ignore the whole thing, he might not be able to, since the guy being used and or his buddies, will project snickering contempt via body language or a few choice remarks his way, grating at his pride and triggering dark violence!
I had one such case when the irate boyfriend cold cocked the “snickering” patsy at a house party and ground his face into a floor HVAC vent!
Lots of fun followed, like criminal charges, law suits against the boyfriend/girlfriend and the homeowner who gave the party [for over serving liquor]!
Another case in a sports bar, where the situation was reversed, had the “scorned” girlfriend smash the woman patsy in the face with a beer mug! Yeah, you guessed it; there was a dram shop action against the bar!
------------------
Van Canna
I have investigated countless rape incidents, assaults, bar fights, women provoking fights, men fighting over stupid things, and what it all came down to was a perception of signals, real or imagined received through the fog of dope, liquor, preconceived notions and utter stupidity, in addition to the criminal component of just “preying” on someone!
And , we now have the so-called “thrill kills” with the perpetrators using a very twisted sense of “profiling” their victims!
And so it is wise to put aside our feelings of righteousness and navigate life with common sense at the helm!
Simple people and predators alike read our every verbal/non verbal, conscious, and unconscious emotional driven “transmissions” instantly, causing a twang of their deep preconceived psychic string! That sets off subliminal emotional stirrings simmering beneath the threshold of awareness that have a very powerful impact on how we perceive and react!
Some strange primeval urges take shape in our “depths” very difficult to recognize and control! And so the perceived stimulus, acting upon an underlying “emotional defect” can trigger all kinds of obnoxious and nasty behavior!
And not to be sexist, because the following applies to both sexes, but how many fights have we seen flowing from trouble caused by women?
Take, for example, the typical situation where the woman “uses” someone to make her boyfriend jealous! This is what I mean about common sense!
The woman doesn’t take into account how the “make up” of a man “reacts” to such a situation! Even if he wants to ignore the whole thing, he might not be able to, since the guy being used and or his buddies, will project snickering contempt via body language or a few choice remarks his way, grating at his pride and triggering dark violence!
I had one such case when the irate boyfriend cold cocked the “snickering” patsy at a house party and ground his face into a floor HVAC vent!
Lots of fun followed, like criminal charges, law suits against the boyfriend/girlfriend and the homeowner who gave the party [for over serving liquor]!
Another case in a sports bar, where the situation was reversed, had the “scorned” girlfriend smash the woman patsy in the face with a beer mug! Yeah, you guessed it; there was a dram shop action against the bar!
------------------
Van Canna
-
Gilbert MacIntyre
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Sydney, NS, Canada
She deserved it
I cannot argue with much of what you say Sensai Canna, however I still believe that under the heading of this thread we should take pains to convey the message that the criminal behavior is unacceptable.
I have said before and believe this to be true, most of our problems come from connecting our self worth to some identity or another. This is true whether that identity is lovely lady, stud, or simple martial arts expert.
I agree we all must be aware of how society works, but I cannot blame a woman that is playing mind games for an assault perpetrated by the object of those games. Immaturity isn't an excuse for violence.
That all being said I know we don't live in a perfect world. I just think for me to allow any acceptance at all for behavior I know is wrong, does a deservice to my being. Seems to me there is an old saying that goes"if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."
I will still advise my children to be aware.
I have said before and believe this to be true, most of our problems come from connecting our self worth to some identity or another. This is true whether that identity is lovely lady, stud, or simple martial arts expert.
I agree we all must be aware of how society works, but I cannot blame a woman that is playing mind games for an assault perpetrated by the object of those games. Immaturity isn't an excuse for violence.
That all being said I know we don't live in a perfect world. I just think for me to allow any acceptance at all for behavior I know is wrong, does a deservice to my being. Seems to me there is an old saying that goes"if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."
I will still advise my children to be aware.
She deserved it
A couple of points:
When I titled this thread - my intentions (what's that about the road to hell?) were of a more sarcastic nature (ok - forget the road stuff) - the very fact that anyone would consider that a woman "asked" for it bothers me greatly.
1)Deserving it: I don't think anyone on this thread has said that any woman "deserves" to be raped. The debate arises from the "preventableness" of the crime. Sensible people acknowledge that rape is about power, not about sex. So sexual signals, intentional or unintentional, do not place "fault" upon the victim.
2) Paranoia vs. Awareness: This is part of the prevention - women need to be aware that this is not a perfect world - and take sensible steps, most involving common sense - brightly lit parking lots, etc. - and cultivating an awareness of their surroundings. Not that we should teach our daughters to fear every shadow - but to realize that predators like to lurk there - and even next door or in your school or place of work.
3) Signals: This is what I perceive to be the primary "bone of contention" on this thread. Some feel that a female should be allowed to exist unmolested regardless of her attire or behavior. Some feel that certain attire or behavior issues invitations - intentional or not - but still invitations that are perceived by the predator. Drawing the line on this issue is difficult if not impossible, especially in such a permissive society as ours. I would venture a guess that cultures with clearly defined mores and standards of acceptable behavior and mannerism have much less incidence of this type of open crime (not to say that it does not exist behind closed doors) - from my own experience in another culture. Where I lived, a woman wearing a short skirt or shorts on the street was a prostitute - so we didn't wear short things on the street. A woman could also walk home from town at dusk, and not be afraid of being raped or mugged. Not here. Style here is "anything goes" and behavior is "do what feels good." Where I lived, women also didn't use foul language in public. Here, some do, some don't. I could list numerous examples - but my point is that we do not have a clearly defined set of standards of dress or behavior - and likely never will. So it is a matter of self-preservation and individual choice. Just as you check ot the specifications of a new car or computer before adopting it as your own - you must be aware of the society you live in - it's benefits and shortcomings, and adapt yourself accordingly. If you find a perfect world - let me know where it is ok?
In summary:
1) No woman, or any individual "deserves" to have their personal space or freedom violated by another. PERIOD.
2) All individuals need to be aware of their own surroundings AND their manner of presenting themselves in these surroundings.
These two statements shouldn't be too hard for everyone to agree on. If they are - please point it out to me.
On the other hand - the "lines" - as I said, are very unclear - and results are certainly debatable. Hence this is a good place for a discussion such as this. Feel free to continue it.
Thanks to all for your participation.
Peace,
Lori
When I titled this thread - my intentions (what's that about the road to hell?) were of a more sarcastic nature (ok - forget the road stuff) - the very fact that anyone would consider that a woman "asked" for it bothers me greatly.
1)Deserving it: I don't think anyone on this thread has said that any woman "deserves" to be raped. The debate arises from the "preventableness" of the crime. Sensible people acknowledge that rape is about power, not about sex. So sexual signals, intentional or unintentional, do not place "fault" upon the victim.
2) Paranoia vs. Awareness: This is part of the prevention - women need to be aware that this is not a perfect world - and take sensible steps, most involving common sense - brightly lit parking lots, etc. - and cultivating an awareness of their surroundings. Not that we should teach our daughters to fear every shadow - but to realize that predators like to lurk there - and even next door or in your school or place of work.
3) Signals: This is what I perceive to be the primary "bone of contention" on this thread. Some feel that a female should be allowed to exist unmolested regardless of her attire or behavior. Some feel that certain attire or behavior issues invitations - intentional or not - but still invitations that are perceived by the predator. Drawing the line on this issue is difficult if not impossible, especially in such a permissive society as ours. I would venture a guess that cultures with clearly defined mores and standards of acceptable behavior and mannerism have much less incidence of this type of open crime (not to say that it does not exist behind closed doors) - from my own experience in another culture. Where I lived, a woman wearing a short skirt or shorts on the street was a prostitute - so we didn't wear short things on the street. A woman could also walk home from town at dusk, and not be afraid of being raped or mugged. Not here. Style here is "anything goes" and behavior is "do what feels good." Where I lived, women also didn't use foul language in public. Here, some do, some don't. I could list numerous examples - but my point is that we do not have a clearly defined set of standards of dress or behavior - and likely never will. So it is a matter of self-preservation and individual choice. Just as you check ot the specifications of a new car or computer before adopting it as your own - you must be aware of the society you live in - it's benefits and shortcomings, and adapt yourself accordingly. If you find a perfect world - let me know where it is ok?
In summary:
1) No woman, or any individual "deserves" to have their personal space or freedom violated by another. PERIOD.
2) All individuals need to be aware of their own surroundings AND their manner of presenting themselves in these surroundings.
These two statements shouldn't be too hard for everyone to agree on. If they are - please point it out to me.
On the other hand - the "lines" - as I said, are very unclear - and results are certainly debatable. Hence this is a good place for a discussion such as this. Feel free to continue it.
Thanks to all for your participation.
Peace,
Lori
She deserved it
I am new to this forum and just read through the last several days of discussion of this topic. I am very upset with some of the comments made regarding victims. Being a survivor of rape, I say what gives you the right to even deem yourself qualified to make the judgements you have? Have you been raped? The "victim mentality" you are speaking of is a normal response to trauma. Getting past that is a very difficult task, especially when there are people out there ready to judge one behind the unfortunate circumstances that occurred.
The concept of "she asked for it" is what keeps many rape victims from prosecuting the perpetrators. Not only must they deal with the memories and trauma of the event, but they must deal with the judgementalism of the public who have never been where they're at!
I agree that there are people who seem to thrive on the "poor me" mentality and milk it for all it's worth. Does that mean that all people who have been victimized are of that mentality? I know that this isn't the case. Women that have been raped need to have a helping hand to get through the aftermath of what has happened to them for at first it makes them weaker. With all the shame that one feels from the event, isn't that enough without ignorant people causing more harm with their self righteous judgements? If it was your wife or daughter or sister how would you feel then?
BTW, there are women out there who have lived through abuse and left. There are women out there who have survived rape and prosecuted. I am one of these women and I don't live in a victim mentality.
IMO, there is no way to completely eradicate these crimes from happening. Yes, there are ways to lower the odds as you have discussed. But the fact remains that it happens.
My motivation for beginning the martial arts was to learn to defend myself so that my odds would be better should such a situation ever arise again in my path. Even though it may make no difference. The perpetrator in my case was a black belt.
Thankyou for listening to my ranting..I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I guess this probably isn't the best way to introduce myself to you, but I feel someone who has been there needed to say something.
The concept of "she asked for it" is what keeps many rape victims from prosecuting the perpetrators. Not only must they deal with the memories and trauma of the event, but they must deal with the judgementalism of the public who have never been where they're at!
I agree that there are people who seem to thrive on the "poor me" mentality and milk it for all it's worth. Does that mean that all people who have been victimized are of that mentality? I know that this isn't the case. Women that have been raped need to have a helping hand to get through the aftermath of what has happened to them for at first it makes them weaker. With all the shame that one feels from the event, isn't that enough without ignorant people causing more harm with their self righteous judgements? If it was your wife or daughter or sister how would you feel then?
BTW, there are women out there who have lived through abuse and left. There are women out there who have survived rape and prosecuted. I am one of these women and I don't live in a victim mentality.
IMO, there is no way to completely eradicate these crimes from happening. Yes, there are ways to lower the odds as you have discussed. But the fact remains that it happens.
My motivation for beginning the martial arts was to learn to defend myself so that my odds would be better should such a situation ever arise again in my path. Even though it may make no difference. The perpetrator in my case was a black belt.
Thankyou for listening to my ranting..I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I guess this probably isn't the best way to introduce myself to you, but I feel someone who has been there needed to say something.
She deserved it
Otsu-san,
Thank you very much for adding your comments to the discussion at hand! Your point of view and honesty about your own situation is welcome and appreciated.
As I've already stated, my reason for starting this thread was my own personal outrage at some opinions toward victims. Varying views have been expressed in this thread and much of the dissention seems to come from perception - much of it gender related - beautifully encapsulated in the above post by "student" incorporating an often "situational" perception by a male, and an "emotional" perception by a female. I don't believe anyone here propones that any victim deserves to be a victim, but some question whether repeat victims of abuse are not setting themselves up for furthering bad situations by denial, ignorance or low self-esteem. This can certainly be debated and both sides have made and can make valid points. A concious effort such as yours to prevent any further attacks must be applauded, and as members of the human race, it must be our moral responsibility to lend support to anyone making this effort.
Frustration ensues from repeated efforts to help those who refuse to help themselves. My counterpoint to this argument is that some victims have not had enough foundation to even find a modicum of inner strength to allow them to make an initial move. To these people we need to extend additional help and understanding, IMHO. "Tough love" notwithstanding, sometimes some people will not respond to efforts to "help" and it becomes personal moral choice whether to expend more energy upon someone who refuses to take that step off the cliff of uncertainty or let them founder and fall face first until they decide to change or give up. This becomes personal choice and their own conscience must deal with it.
As a rape "victor" yourself - you have no doubt encountered some of the worst of society, long after the crime was committed. People's attitudes toward victims are changing - hopefully toward the more supportive side. This becomes complicated by our litigious society and over-priced high-powered defense attorneys who will attack a victim even further in the courtroom to push the blame back on the victim instead of the predator. It is only by airing these issues and working on our own moral stand that any change will ever come about.
The fact that you did report the crime and went through the emotional strain of prosecution of the crime says much for your courage and willingness to make your own moral stand. I thank you for your frankness and encourage you to become a regular contributor to this forum.
Peace,
Lori
Thank you very much for adding your comments to the discussion at hand! Your point of view and honesty about your own situation is welcome and appreciated.
As I've already stated, my reason for starting this thread was my own personal outrage at some opinions toward victims. Varying views have been expressed in this thread and much of the dissention seems to come from perception - much of it gender related - beautifully encapsulated in the above post by "student" incorporating an often "situational" perception by a male, and an "emotional" perception by a female. I don't believe anyone here propones that any victim deserves to be a victim, but some question whether repeat victims of abuse are not setting themselves up for furthering bad situations by denial, ignorance or low self-esteem. This can certainly be debated and both sides have made and can make valid points. A concious effort such as yours to prevent any further attacks must be applauded, and as members of the human race, it must be our moral responsibility to lend support to anyone making this effort.
Frustration ensues from repeated efforts to help those who refuse to help themselves. My counterpoint to this argument is that some victims have not had enough foundation to even find a modicum of inner strength to allow them to make an initial move. To these people we need to extend additional help and understanding, IMHO. "Tough love" notwithstanding, sometimes some people will not respond to efforts to "help" and it becomes personal moral choice whether to expend more energy upon someone who refuses to take that step off the cliff of uncertainty or let them founder and fall face first until they decide to change or give up. This becomes personal choice and their own conscience must deal with it.
As a rape "victor" yourself - you have no doubt encountered some of the worst of society, long after the crime was committed. People's attitudes toward victims are changing - hopefully toward the more supportive side. This becomes complicated by our litigious society and over-priced high-powered defense attorneys who will attack a victim even further in the courtroom to push the blame back on the victim instead of the predator. It is only by airing these issues and working on our own moral stand that any change will ever come about.
The fact that you did report the crime and went through the emotional strain of prosecution of the crime says much for your courage and willingness to make your own moral stand. I thank you for your frankness and encourage you to become a regular contributor to this forum.
Peace,
Lori
She deserved it
Otsu-san:
My observations of the people who frequent these threads is that for the most part they are thoughtful, intelligent, caring, compassionate. Like you and me, they are also human (Well, mostly...); thus, their communications skills may not be attuned to everyone, especially across cyberspace.
Give them a chance. If there's one thing that's agreed upon on these threads, it's the value of experience v. theory - and, unfortunately but valuably for others with whom you share it, you have experience; experience with one of the worst sets of crime and trauma one human can perpetrate upon another. You might consider starting your own thread in this Forum, or another.
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited February 20, 2000).]
My observations of the people who frequent these threads is that for the most part they are thoughtful, intelligent, caring, compassionate. Like you and me, they are also human (Well, mostly...); thus, their communications skills may not be attuned to everyone, especially across cyberspace.
Give them a chance. If there's one thing that's agreed upon on these threads, it's the value of experience v. theory - and, unfortunately but valuably for others with whom you share it, you have experience; experience with one of the worst sets of crime and trauma one human can perpetrate upon another. You might consider starting your own thread in this Forum, or another.
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited February 20, 2000).]
She deserved it
I feel that I must humbly apologize for the tone of my post. I really didn't intend to come across in a negative way. Unfortunately, when it comes to this particular subject, it is hard to keep that "emotional" connotation out of my discussion.
As for starting a thread about this subject, that's really not what I came here for. Rape is not my favorite topic. If I can help someone, that's one thing, otherwise I'd rather discuss something else.
Thankyou for making me feel welcome.
As for starting a thread about this subject, that's really not what I came here for. Rape is not my favorite topic. If I can help someone, that's one thing, otherwise I'd rather discuss something else.
Thankyou for making me feel welcome.
She deserved it
Otsu-san:
I have to begin with the caveat that I have no official position here - in fact (gasp), I am not even an Uechi student (horrors!) - and cannot represent the group as a whole.
Nevertheless, so far as I am concerned, no apology necessary. Welcome aboard; join the party.
student
I have to begin with the caveat that I have no official position here - in fact (gasp), I am not even an Uechi student (horrors!) - and cannot represent the group as a whole.
Nevertheless, so far as I am concerned, no apology necessary. Welcome aboard; join the party.
student
She deserved it
Otsu-san,
Glad to see your follow-up post! I second student-san's comments once more - no apology necessary! These forums - and especially here - are in search of truth - and there is never a need to apologize for speaking the same. The rules of this forum are that all opinions are welcome - as long as we stick to issues and not people. Personal attacks on this forum, (and some others as well) will be promptly deleted without warning - flamers of any kind will not be tolerated. I want all bona-fide contributors to this forum to feel welcome and confident enough to post whatever truth or feelings they find relevant to the discussion without fear of cyber-scum attacking with keyboard subterfuge.
I note with dismay your disclosure that the perpetrator was a black-belt - and this is not the first time I've heard of such a thing. This of course violates also the supposed "code" of martial artists - and could warrant further discussion. I wonder if in your martial arts study you have encountered other women who have had similar encounters. This is certainly worth it's own thread... for many reasons! If anyone out there reading but not feeling comfortable posting on such a personal subject would like to contribute information to me privately by email, I could start a new topic using any parts you would allow from an anonymous source. You have my promise that I will never re-post any part of a private email without your express permission. I've done this before in the past for some who are regular readers of the forum but didn't feel comfortable registering or posting themselves for various reasons.
Otsu-san, rape is a hideously unpleasant subject - and I completely understand not wanting to initiate further threads relating to it. I do invite you however to share any insights you have - as a survivor this is valuable to many - as you see fit. I can't promise what all readers' personal opinions will be - but I can promise that the only ones allowed to remain written will be those that contribute, question, or further enlighten. Dissenting views are of course allowed - as long as the cardinal rule of respect and sticking to issues is maintained.
I welcome you again to the forums, and look forward to your participation on many various topics!
Peace,
Lori
<A HREF="mailto:lori_san@hotmail.com">lori_san@hotmail.com</A>
Glad to see your follow-up post! I second student-san's comments once more - no apology necessary! These forums - and especially here - are in search of truth - and there is never a need to apologize for speaking the same. The rules of this forum are that all opinions are welcome - as long as we stick to issues and not people. Personal attacks on this forum, (and some others as well) will be promptly deleted without warning - flamers of any kind will not be tolerated. I want all bona-fide contributors to this forum to feel welcome and confident enough to post whatever truth or feelings they find relevant to the discussion without fear of cyber-scum attacking with keyboard subterfuge.
I note with dismay your disclosure that the perpetrator was a black-belt - and this is not the first time I've heard of such a thing. This of course violates also the supposed "code" of martial artists - and could warrant further discussion. I wonder if in your martial arts study you have encountered other women who have had similar encounters. This is certainly worth it's own thread... for many reasons! If anyone out there reading but not feeling comfortable posting on such a personal subject would like to contribute information to me privately by email, I could start a new topic using any parts you would allow from an anonymous source. You have my promise that I will never re-post any part of a private email without your express permission. I've done this before in the past for some who are regular readers of the forum but didn't feel comfortable registering or posting themselves for various reasons.
Otsu-san, rape is a hideously unpleasant subject - and I completely understand not wanting to initiate further threads relating to it. I do invite you however to share any insights you have - as a survivor this is valuable to many - as you see fit. I can't promise what all readers' personal opinions will be - but I can promise that the only ones allowed to remain written will be those that contribute, question, or further enlighten. Dissenting views are of course allowed - as long as the cardinal rule of respect and sticking to issues is maintained.
I welcome you again to the forums, and look forward to your participation on many various topics!
Peace,
Lori
<A HREF="mailto:lori_san@hotmail.com">lori_san@hotmail.com</A>
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Shelly King
She deserved it
Otsu-san
Welcome...no need to apologize...in fact the majority of us who post regularly were previous lurkers who read something that didn't sit well and felt the need to verbalize our opinion. I hope you will become a regular contributor. This forum has been provided to us as an excellent place to come together and share our experiences and concerns, it's nice to see someone new taking advantage of it.
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Shelly
Welcome...no need to apologize...in fact the majority of us who post regularly were previous lurkers who read something that didn't sit well and felt the need to verbalize our opinion. I hope you will become a regular contributor. This forum has been provided to us as an excellent place to come together and share our experiences and concerns, it's nice to see someone new taking advantage of it.
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Shelly
