MY discussion on body conditioning

[Van Canna]

Here is something of interest I stumbled upon :

< How can I train my midsection to take a punch ? My trainer tells me taking practice punches to the gut , will do it >

David Lawrence , former welterweight and boxing trainer in Brooklyn NY , responds : " Taking punches to the stomach will help develop instinctive moves that diffuse the impact of the punches . But just standing there letting someone repeatedly throw punches at your gut , won't do much good . Here is why : If you know exactly when something is going to smash into your gut , your stomach muscles will tense at exactly the right time . In a fight , however, your opponent will jab you in the stomach when you least expect it , and that's the experience you need to condition for ! You are better off finding a real sparring partner , not a guy who just whales on your waistline for hours on end " !

DR X said to me once < I believe Uechi is
"better" than boxing, but only if you train like a boxer! Sad we do not
have the time and discipline. Worse if we fool ourselves. >

Amen brother ! Peyton Quinn drives this point home by saying that " the intelligent karate man fears the boxer due to the boxing training method i.e., the boxer is used to hitting people and being hit in the head and in the gut full force ! Also the boxing training method weeds out the dilettantes quickly , since these types give up boxing after the first day or so ..if they ever show up at the gym in the first place "

On the other hand most karate people [ highest dans included] study karate a lifetime and never really hit anybody or really get hit themselves with brain rattling , body chopping shots ! They just play pretend !

Peyton quotes Bruce Lee " The best preparation for an event is the event itself"

The rest of us are all but dreamers , kotikitae not withstanding !

Van Canna

[Bill Glasheen]

To all

Wonderful input!

As to the comment about the best training for an event being the event itself, this comment comes from a guy (Bruce Lee) who was unique in his time for adding weight training to his regime. Remember that most folk from that era thought that it made you slow and muscle bound. Tell that to Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield. Baseball coaches used to yell at their players for lifting because it would screw up their timing and make it impossible to hit a major league pitch. Tell that to Mark McGuire.

Bruce Lee was also into a lot of other strange stuff like electrical stimulation of his muscles.

I agree that at some point we must spar. My sparring ability (what I have) didn't come from classical training per se. It came from a time in my training when I wanted to spar any and everyone, and did kata when I had to. I even remember the day that I asked my first Uechi instructor (Rad Smith) to spar me after about three weeks of Uechi training. Silly me - Rad was one of the few who I know could give Bobby Campbell a run for his money in their heydays. Well I spent most of my time on the floor, and I think I actually got one technique in (a backfist - whoopeee!) during the whole match. And Rad had that kind of killer instinct that took over when he fought; he turned from gentleman scholar into a raging pitbull. But still....I learned. I know because I started accidentally hurting folk when I would go back to fighting mere mortals.

We all agree that you need to test yourself in the real environment to know the environment. But still, the beauty of our kotekitae (as well as other cross-training regimes like weight training) is that it allows you the time to focus on an element of training in a very controlled setting. You can titrate the EXACT amount of stress that you want - EXACTLY where you want it.

In the end we seek balance.

[T Rose]

Morning,

Let me add my $.02 to the conditioning discussion....

One of my students Dr. T. is top man at the Umass orthopedic dept. One of his associates was performing a bone density study. Dr. T. made arrangements to have Uechi folk MRI'ed as part of the study. I will try to get him to post with the results. I believe that while densitiy is important, it is the overall body structure (much like a high rise building) and subtle contractions that make conditioning work.

The way most Uechi people perform conditioning is very beginner'ish. As a matter of fact, I believe that the way most students *interprept* and practice condiitioning has little to no benefit and will probally get them hurt.

I really don't understand medically why conditioning works. All I know is that I have been performing conditioning for over 25 years to all levels and have only benefitted from the training.

Finally, the $64,000 dollar question. We have this wonderful tool that most other training methologies do not even understand. How can we maximize conditioning for fighting, training, mindset etc .?? How, as teachers, can we use conditioning to the benefit of our students?

There is no question in my mind, boxers have nothing over my students (when it comes to conditioning) who train using conditioning properly...

[Van Canna]

Rose sensei has valid points here , since his method of conditioning resembles the boxing model !

< it is the overall body structure (much
like a high rise building) and subtle contractions that make
conditioning work. > [ Rose ]

This is much like what the boxing trainer advocates above ! I have seen the method of conditioning Tracy-san uses in our Brockton dojo workouts , and I can tell you it is an eye opener ! How about it , Tracy-san ---- would you mind laying out your method here on this forum ? I think we could all benefit from it !

Regards,

Van

[jadm]

I have experienced a problem with trying to work at weight training and then Kotekitae in class
my schedule has been

Monday - chest & tri
Tuesday -Uechi
Wednesday -back & Bi
Thursday -Uechi
Friday - legs
Sat & Sun off

My conditioning seems to be lagging. I have been told in class that weight training and conditioning don't work well together.
And to lay off the weight training if I want to make progress on conditioning.

Can I get some guidance on if I should do both or stop weight training

don

[SanchinDan]

That would be good to know.

[Jason Rees]

I have experienced a problem with trying to work at weight training and then Kotekitae in class
my schedule has been

Monday - chest & tri
Tuesday -Uechi
Wednesday -back & Bi
Thursday -Uechi
Friday - legs
Sat & Sun off

My conditioning seems to be lagging. I have been told in class that weight training and conditioning don't work well together.
And to lay off the weight training if I want to make progress on conditioning.

Can I get some guidance on if I should do both or stop weight training

don

I see no reason why you should lay off weight training to make progress on conditioning; weight training IS conditioning. I don't see any cardio in your schedule, and that is an important element of conditioning. If your cardio amounts to two days a week of Uechi, it's not enough. You need 4-5 days a week to improve, and at least three to maintain when you've found you're where you want to be. If your conditioning is lagging, this is the area to work on. Swimming, running, rowing, boxing... however you prefer to get it, do it. You're not going to keep doing something you hate, so find what you love. If you find you prefer running, make sure you read up on do's and don'ts, or you're going to hurt yourself: pains in your feet, shin splints, aches in your legs, wrecked knees or ankles... Oh, and you don't need two days off from working out. Take one most of the time (I usually take Sunday). Your alternating patterns work to keep yourself from overtraining. Right now I'm doing 5 days of cardio, with three days of lifting per week, to get back to where I want to be.

I don't see Abs in your schedule. These are important. Your abs recover quickly, so you can work them every other day.

[jadm]

Jason thank you for your help

yes there are some holes in my training. I was tiring to do some road biking
before Uechi class but that leads to tired legs and bad form in kata's
but I try to get one or two cardio per week seems that I need to up that number.
abs I try do on each gym day (M,W,F) but they are at the end of the work out and
tend to get dropped because of time or motivation. I do need to be more consistent here
leg stretching I try to do every other day, when life works the way I intend it to.


thank you for your help
Jadm

[emattson]

David, there is proven medical evidence (I a can't site a reference at this time) that concert pianists develop greater bone mass in the joints of their fingers over years and years of playing. I'm sure this is true of others who do repetitive, hard movement over years.
VTY

Kevin

Don't know about the increased bone density, but piano playing can strengthen the fingers and make them more agile.
https://playingkeys.com/pianist-hands-vs-normal-hand

Repetitious straining the joints over many years could risk causing osteoarthritis.
https://wanderingtunes.com/does-playing ... -arthritis

Wonder if all this can also apply to the computer users, like myself, who does a lot of typing. It will be interesting to compare my hand strength and finger bone density to the non-computer typists.

[emattson]

I was in Tom Seabourne's home. He disagreed with me. He obviously could not recognize my brilliance or he would have agreed completely with everything I said.

This is my home. mine, Mine, MINE!

But seriously folks, I wasn't getting anywhere with Tom in his forum on the topic of body conditioning. And the system wiped out my last few entries anyhow. It all started when Rich Castanet asked Tom about his biases on body conditioning in his new book (the one with the buff Tom bearing his shaved chest and Taequondo kick on the cover). First of all, Tom's a smart, educated guy and a good martial artist. He likes to spar and he has a great track record. But athletes - even the educated ones - can be the most superstitious folk around. Tom doesn't believe in body conditioning. He'd rather brag about the bruises he got on his arm in his warrior days, and tell us how he used DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) to make them go away. And Tom will not be convinced otherwise; he'd rather cling to a stereotypical view of how it is practiced and what it does. Too bad - I thought he could be of use in my investigation of this practice.

By the way, do NOT use DMSO unless you do not value your long-term health. There is a very good reason why they banned it for medicinal use. It's all in the literature. I can explain if anyone is interested.

If someone were asked to explain what Uechi Ryu is in a page or so, the topic of body conditioning would have to come up. It has been documented by Mattson and others that Uechi Kanbun learned and taught just a few things from his China experience: 3 forms, sparring, Chinese medicine (perhaps the Bubishi), and body conditioning methods. The origin of this practice stems back to Iron Shirt training in China. Basically the practitioners believed that they could make themselves less vulnerable to attacks and the rigors of battle by conditioning surfaces that receive a lot of punishment. This punishment could be the result of direct assault (like a shot to the solar plexus), or merely a consequence of blocking (shins and forearms). For those who believe or are "into" kyusho, the training was also meant to make one less vulnerable to the consequence of a sequential attack to specific vital areas (kyusho or accupuncture points).

Body conditioning methods are NOT foreign to western athletes. Twenty two years ago when I was training with the Charlottesville Boxing Club, they had a routine they used to develop the abdomen. The practitioner would do situps on an incline board. Each time the practitioner came near the top of the situp, the partner would strike his solar plexus with a medicine ball. It was an elegantly simple and highly effective version of the body conditioning methods that we all practice. Those who remember martial arts in the 60s and early 70s probably remember some of the challenges that occurred between martial artists and boxers. In almost every case, the martial artist got his butt kicked. The reason was....because boxers were used to getting hit, and most of the martial artists back then had never heard of these conditioning methods.

Anyone who has played either football or judo or has practiced aikido knows the importance of conditioning methods. The football player spends lots of time with the weights in the spring and summer, but cannot survive the rigors of blocking and tackling/being tackled without proper contact work. While the nature and target of these conditioning methods are different, the ultimate outcome is the same - create the effective, warrior who is less fearful and less vulnerable without being naive about his/her vulnerability.

Here are my issues. Many have totally inaccurate views of the mechanisms and outcome of this type of training. One is NOT trying to develop calcium deposits on the bones; one is instead trying to increase bone density. One is NOT supposed to be developing ugly callouses and scarring; one is (I belive) instead supposed to be developing functional connective tissue and improve the tone of smooth and skeletal muscle. And there is also a whole-body element involved that teaches us how to both absorb and reflect energy. But this is all theory - where is the evidence? And I BELIEVE that the slower, more controlled methods are both safer and give better long term results. But where is the evidence? And are all my assumptions about underlying mechanisms supported by research in the sports medicine literature? And if not, what are we academic folk waiting for? Work needs to be done!

I welcome your knowledge, input, and commentary.

Agree with the dangers of DMSO (Dimethylsulfoxide). Non-prescription types they sell aren't safe for human use and can contain dangerous impurities that are absorbed through the skin with the DMSO. They're meant for industrial use only. Medical studies don't have enough data to verify if they're safe to take orally or safe for pregnant or breast-feeding mothers. One possible side effect is garlic body odor. Information taken from Web-MD.

In 1965, FDA banned clinical trials with DMSO because the compound altered the refractive index of eye lenses of laboratory animals.
https://www.acs.org/molecule-of-the-wee ... oxide.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 20%5B10%5D.