BTW I almost flunked my first TKD white belt test in 197something, irking the test board in North Carolina when I described the meaning of "Heaven and Earth" as I was showing them the movements in parallel as you "First knock them down to the ground (the earth) and then you finish them off by sending them to heaven. Movements right out of the kata, but they didn't appreciate it.
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
can someone help
Moderator: Available
can someone help
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Allen M.:
BTW I almost flunked my first TKD white belt test in 197something, irking the test board in North Carolina when I described the meaning of "Heaven and Earth" as I was showing them the movements in parallel as you "First knock them down to the ground (the earth) and then you finish them off by sending them to heaven. Movements right out of the kata, but they didn't appreciate it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Some people wouldn't like ingenuity unless it's their own.
I can fully understand why the Koreans wanted so much to draw the line between karate and TKD. Don't know which Asian country folks like to remember the Japanese during WW2.....except Japanese themselves.
In any case, I was trying to tell what I know during the early 60's when in-fighting in TKD is very intense. The issues were many and the nationalistic identity was one major one. If Allen disagrees, I respect your view too.
I rest my case.
[This message has been edited by billmok (edited June 21, 2001).]
BTW I almost flunked my first TKD white belt test in 197something, irking the test board in North Carolina when I described the meaning of "Heaven and Earth" as I was showing them the movements in parallel as you "First knock them down to the ground (the earth) and then you finish them off by sending them to heaven. Movements right out of the kata, but they didn't appreciate it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Some people wouldn't like ingenuity unless it's their own.
I can fully understand why the Koreans wanted so much to draw the line between karate and TKD. Don't know which Asian country folks like to remember the Japanese during WW2.....except Japanese themselves.
In any case, I was trying to tell what I know during the early 60's when in-fighting in TKD is very intense. The issues were many and the nationalistic identity was one major one. If Allen disagrees, I respect your view too.
I rest my case.[This message has been edited by billmok (edited June 21, 2001).]
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Allen M.
can someone help
All of your above is accurate and right-on to my knowledge. What I don’t know about is what I questioned.
I agree with you 100% on you last post and on most of what I know about the histories of TKD as provided by you on your previous posts. It was not what you wrote, rather what was posted on that particular link you provided that I found interesting and worth writing a few of my own words about. His link provided additional links which revealed additional insights about TKD history, etc. TKD Nationalistic Pride is very real, and TKD has become as much a part of Korea as is Seoul. Sometimes the write-ups about TKD get sanitized and/or distorted by Americans for whatever reason. There has been a large movement for sometime attempting to unify the TKD factions, but 'tain't gonna happen. There are masters of both systems I owe certain allegiances to, but if they try to tell me how to think or that I have to "choose," I will get off their boat, and I've done that before.
I also am privy on dope the WTF vs ITF thing from an insider's point of view and all I will say about that is that Uechi-ryu is very fortunate indeed to have the strength of George Mattson Sensei on the front lines else Uechi-ryu would instead be chop-suey-ryu today.
<hr>
Of all the forms of TKD, I hold near and dear to my heart the ones that begin with Chung-gi, and taught in the "Old-Way" of ball-dragging stances and face-and-rib-smashing kicks, and not the "new" tournament way. Those particular forms are well-suited for hard fighting, well-designed, and have some excellent fighting techniques hidden inside. A TKD class is not a TKD class unless one has to drag himself to the showers from sheer exhaustion after he recites the tenants of Taekwondo.
As an aside, Going back to Moo duk Kwan: It is clamed by both TKD and TSD, and the Chung Do Kwan is also written and pronounced as Jung Do Kwan.
Another aside: One of the TKD masters I used to teach for adorns the cover of May 1993 Tae Kwon Do Times. I read some of my own words in the article about him. WTF’s acceptance into the Olympics and success in the U.S. Open Pan Am Games was due, in part, to him, as well as he has a high reputation in Korea. I was fortunate, because although he was one of the best I’ve ever seen, he absolutely didn’t like to teach although he frequently flew to Colorado to train Olympic hopefuls. He used to regularly say things like “Ah, Mista Mo-to! You here. You teach class. I have to go home early tonight” almost all the time until I was teaching most of his adult evening classes instead of training. THAT was an opportunity I never forgot. That was an opportunity I will cherish forever.
<hr>
Please, bilmok, provide the Hangul of which you speak. I am always in learning mode and am more than happy to provide the translation for you on this forum; it could even be an eye-opener to me.
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
I agree with you 100% on you last post and on most of what I know about the histories of TKD as provided by you on your previous posts. It was not what you wrote, rather what was posted on that particular link you provided that I found interesting and worth writing a few of my own words about. His link provided additional links which revealed additional insights about TKD history, etc. TKD Nationalistic Pride is very real, and TKD has become as much a part of Korea as is Seoul. Sometimes the write-ups about TKD get sanitized and/or distorted by Americans for whatever reason. There has been a large movement for sometime attempting to unify the TKD factions, but 'tain't gonna happen. There are masters of both systems I owe certain allegiances to, but if they try to tell me how to think or that I have to "choose," I will get off their boat, and I've done that before.
I also am privy on dope the WTF vs ITF thing from an insider's point of view and all I will say about that is that Uechi-ryu is very fortunate indeed to have the strength of George Mattson Sensei on the front lines else Uechi-ryu would instead be chop-suey-ryu today.
<hr>
Of all the forms of TKD, I hold near and dear to my heart the ones that begin with Chung-gi, and taught in the "Old-Way" of ball-dragging stances and face-and-rib-smashing kicks, and not the "new" tournament way. Those particular forms are well-suited for hard fighting, well-designed, and have some excellent fighting techniques hidden inside. A TKD class is not a TKD class unless one has to drag himself to the showers from sheer exhaustion after he recites the tenants of Taekwondo.
As an aside, Going back to Moo duk Kwan: It is clamed by both TKD and TSD, and the Chung Do Kwan is also written and pronounced as Jung Do Kwan.
Another aside: One of the TKD masters I used to teach for adorns the cover of May 1993 Tae Kwon Do Times. I read some of my own words in the article about him. WTF’s acceptance into the Olympics and success in the U.S. Open Pan Am Games was due, in part, to him, as well as he has a high reputation in Korea. I was fortunate, because although he was one of the best I’ve ever seen, he absolutely didn’t like to teach although he frequently flew to Colorado to train Olympic hopefuls. He used to regularly say things like “Ah, Mista Mo-to! You here. You teach class. I have to go home early tonight” almost all the time until I was teaching most of his adult evening classes instead of training. THAT was an opportunity I never forgot. That was an opportunity I will cherish forever.
<hr>
Please, bilmok, provide the Hangul of which you speak. I am always in learning mode and am more than happy to provide the translation for you on this forum; it could even be an eye-opener to me.
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
can someone help
It's been over 30 years and I can't remember the Hangul 
(in any case, I only spent a very short time in TKD)
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"Learning is a never ending process. Shodan is, as it really means, the beginning of serious learning." by Seigo TADA, founder of Seigokan (1922-1997)
(in any case, I only spent a very short time in TKD) ------------------
"Learning is a never ending process. Shodan is, as it really means, the beginning of serious learning." by Seigo TADA, founder of Seigokan (1922-1997)
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Allen M.
can someone help
No problemo, billmok. The Korean alphabet is much more difficult and complex to remember than ours, anyway.
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
can someone help
Funny thing about this whole infighting and "purity" business is that Funakoshi himself was a student of Okinawan karate. If I may be so bold, Funakoshi - the well-heeled Japanese - made famous what the Okinawans - the "country bumpkins" - developed over years of study and practice. And of course the Okinawans learned many of their methods from the Chinese. Yada, yada, yada...
- Bill
- Bill
