The Matrix - Are you hooked?

[Bill Glasheen]

Oh Panther... Mary... Tch, tch, tch! You tease me so.

Let's see now... Take the idea of fate.

So that woman can predict all those things that happened, eh? Well if that's the case, then self-determination is B.S. We all might as well sit back on our duffs in life and do nothin, because Madame Q on TeeVee says so-and-so is going to happen. Just make sure you keep on that 900 number long enough so she can pay for her mansion...

The beauty of math... The beauty of very advanced math... The beauty of that and modern psychology is that we now know that Even when a system is completely deterministic, you still cannot predict it past a point (unless of course you know the initial conditions to an infinite number of significant digits...). That's the world of nonlinear differential equations, a.k.a. chaos. Yep... Makes us all happy knowing that those dweebs can't predict the future even if they can write the perfect equation for it.

But..., you say, The Matrix is all a program and has rules and...and... Ah...but didn't we have a handful of people popping in and out of The Matrix? Do they violate all the laws of physics in the real world? Think about it...

Ooops!

That's OK - still a fun movie!

And they all look boss in those shades and black leather!





- Bill

[Mary S]

I could have predicted you would post pics of those three and comment on the black leather. (What? No Hugo Weaving????)

I think however, it might be the "shades" that really make them look so cool, afterall, one of the gang wore white leather, and don't you find when you can't see someone's eyes that they seem more mysterious and perhaps cool? That's where imagination comes into play and the randomness really begins.

[Bill Glasheen]

Yea, that and the agents with their black suits and white shirts.... Not exactly a bunch of folks cruising the streets incognito, eh?

Funny...used to be that the good guys wore white hats.



I guess we call all that "cinematic license."

- Bill

[flavor flav]

Can you imagine what damage one would do to their body if somehow their brain could have the kinesthetic knowledge/ability of a MA with abilities even approaching that which is displayed in the movie? No conditioning, no progressive strengthening of muscle and connective tissue, no increase in bone density... OUCH!

Actually from the standpoint of the movie, I think Flavor Flav was making an important point. Life as they knew it in The Matrix was all a computer program. That would include all the conditioning, progressive strengthening of muscle, etc. Remember that they were able to program hair length, etc. in the first trip back into the Matrix, right? So when they were downloading "jiu-jitsu" and "kung fu" into the people, they were also downloading the software that gave them the results of conditioning.

I can find ways to punch holes in the plot of the movie. But this issue actually isn't one of the weaknesses.

- Bill

In defense of Ted. I think there has been serious speculation as to whether we in our "Real life world" could figure out how the brain works to the extent that we could implant memories, abilities painlessly into people.

There is a sci fi short story I read where people go to memory banks to make an archived copy of their memory every 6 months. that way, if they die, they can be cloned and they can have all their memories back (up to the point of the most recent "memory archive" of course)

the messed up thing in this book... you go to the memory bank for your bi annual archive. they put you to sleep for the process and you wake up, only to have them tell you that it is two years later, and you have been cloned and recloned three times, because there is a killer after you.

It gets better, but I dont want to spoil it in case anyone is interested in reading it. I could try and find who wrote it.

Back to the topic of teds original statement, I think its a valid point possibly.. because in the movies "real world" (for those that have been freed from the matrix) they still remember their lives and skills and talents that they had in the matrix. So if these talents are uploaded into the matrix, why wouldnt they remember them in the real world as well... the humans and robots obviously have a superior knowledghe of the way the brain works, so complete memory, skill and ability uploading is a possibility. and remember, right after neo awakens, he is weak (he has never used his eyelids before) so he would definently get into serious trouble if he tried those movements out in the real world. Of course, like an optical illusion, in the matrix, those that are "aware" can trick their minds into doing anything.

but, remember even in the realworld, they had that muscle growth stimulator thingie that neo was hooked up to (im articulate)... so maybe after enough of that, he would be able to know and follow through with his martial arts in the "real life"

Here is a question, if given the oportunity to have all these skills and abilities uploaded (and beyond "just" knowing and mastering every animal form of kung fu, every uechi variant, every known sanchin application, and the finer points of tai chi, tae kwon do, aikido... etc Im talking learning new languages and stuff also) would you do it? Isnt the journey half the experience?

peace out,

Sebastian

[chef]

When your 'daddy' goes out and buys a you new car on your 16th birthday, do you appreciate the gift? Do your treat it like a God-send or like so many other things your parents just give you?

When you save for 2 or 3 years and you go out and buy that car for yourself, after patiently waiting and years of hard work, do you appreciate that car even more and take better care of it because your worked hard to earn that gift for yourself? (Serious run on).

Things that come to easily, INMHO, are taken for granted.

Vicki

[Bill Glasheen]

if these talents are uploaded into the matrix, why wouldn’t they remember them in the real world as well... the humans and robots obviously have a superior knowledge of the way the brain works, so complete memory, skill and ability uploading is a possibility. and remember, right after neo awakens, he is weak (he has never used his eyelids before) so he would definently get into serious trouble if he tried those movements out in the real world. Of course, like an optical illusion, in the matrix, those that are "aware" can trick their minds into doing anything.

I think you answered your own question here.

Remember what happened when they first brought Neo out of the Matrix? His muscles were worthless because he spent a life hooked up to a machine. They had hundreds of electrodes on his body stimulating his muscles to bring them back to some degree of functionality.

Everything that happened in The Matrix was an illusion. It was the computer program tricking your brain into thinking you not only had the mental knowledge, but you also had gone through the physical conditioning and your body had adjusted to it. But it was all an illusion. It's like having a dream that you kicked Mike Tyson's bootie, only to wake up and realize you're the same schmuck you were when you went to sleep the night before. It's like dreaming you went to work with only your underwear on, and then waking up in your own bed with your PJs on.

The key here is reality, and perception of reality. When I look at my hand, I am processing the electrical signals that are the result of photons of light of various frequencies hitting my hand and selectively being reflected (in a kind of frequency spectrum filter) to the retina of my eye. The retina in turn creates frequency modulated signals based on the intensity of photons of various spectrum frequencies and numbers of such photons hitting the rods and cones in my retina. These various FM signals in turn are sent to the processing centers of the brain, interact with the memory banks, and create a signal that my pattern recognition software subsequently interprets. What I get then is the result of this process. But what is in my brain is NOT the hand. One could theoretically bypass the retina, plug into the nerves past the retina, and send the same FM signals to my brain, thus tricking my brain into thinking it is looking at a hand. The same goes for feeling a callous on my knuckles, sensing a cut lip, feeling heat, and undergoing the visceral response that a colleague of mine gets whenever a curvaceous Italian feline walks by. (Remember the woman in the red dress?)

The Matrix manufactured PERCEPTIONS. The Matrix did not create a reality in the artificial world. Thus there would be no reality to bring back to the real world. Manufactured memories and perceptions conceivably could make it easier to deal with realities that had not actually been encountered before. But they could not build the physical responses like muscular development, bone density, and skin thickness. That's why it was necessary to hook a hundred or so electrodes on Neo in the first scene just so he could walk. Indeed the first response when being in "the real world" and encountering the real scenario could be one of disconnect, where the person senses physical abilities that might be partially lacking. That can be very dangerous, right Van?

- Bill