Sanchin

[maxwell ainley]

Van , yes Man united ,Chelsea ,West ham ,A C milan ,Barcelona,
As a kid my favorite was Sheff wednesday in the 70s Leeds United ,over seas Real Madrid .


Soccer is never without differences of opinion So is uechi, but the point is we discuss ,the ones who post .

Anyway on Sanchin as a Kata or a exercise , I see it as a fighting kata no different to say Seisan ,but here again its schools of thought ,here's Kanei " My Father had us sparring after three years of training " back to Kanbuns methods again, give or take after three years all a kanbun student would know ,Was non other than Sanchin ,call it what we wish ,but they were fighting with it .

Kanei "The goju method of performing Sanchin -which is now considered to be a breathing exercise .because of the method of breathing in Goju's sanchin ,it as to be classified as an exercise ,wereas uechi sanchin still remains a Kata ,"

[Van Canna]

All great teams, Max, thanks….

True warriors…we would kneel and scoop up a bit of grass off the field so as to taste it, before walking down to the center to start the game…it brought us as one in touch with the field, the game, the dream, the fight.

The 90 minutes went by all too fast for me, often I would have tears in my eyes hoping the game would continue for another hour or so, win or lose.

Good points about kata vs. exercise…goes to show you all the opinions about it, masters or beginners.

After a while it gets boring and I must take anti_yawning pills…smile.

[kempo-jujitsu]

Van , yes Man united ,Chelsea ,West ham ,A C milan ,Barcelona,
As a kid my favorite was Sheff wednesday in the 70s Leeds United ,over seas Real Madrid .


Soccer is never without differences of opinion So is uechi, but the point is we discuss ,the ones who post .

Anyway on Sanchin as a Kata or a exercise , I see it as a fighting kata no different to say Seisan ,but here again its schools of thought ,here's Kanei " My Father had us sparring after three years of training " back to Kanbuns methods again, give or take after three years all a kanbun student would know ,Was non other than Sanchin ,call it what we wish ,but they were fighting with it .

Kanei "The goju method of performing Sanchin -which is now considered to be a breathing exercise .because of the method of breathing in Goju's sanchin ,it as to be classified as an exercise ,wereas uechi sanchin still remains a Kata ,"

very interesting, which begs me to ask this question.

i've heard Mattson sensei say that uechi is a frontal fighting system, based on sanchin.
i'd like to ask why noone seems to spar this way? why not practice this frontal fighting?

[hoshin]

_______________________________________________________________________
i'd like to ask why noone seems to spar this way? why not practice this frontal fighting?
_______________________________________________________________________

your question spurs a question back. what kind of sparing? point fighting, contact fighting or practice for real life confrontations?

all three will have different methods and tactics.
next question would be how far away are you from your opponent?

my answer would be point fighting does not allow strikes to the back so you turn sideways to limit and shrink your target zone.
in contact fighting ( like MMA) this a bad idea. you do square up more.
in real life senario training i like to square up just like sanchin but my feet are more relaxed and my distance is often short.
not everyone does what i do but this is my personal answer. hope it answers your question.

[kempo-jujitsu]

my answer would be point fighting does not allow strikes to the back so you turn sideways to limit and shrink your target zone.
in contact fighting ( like MMA) this a bad idea. you do square up more.
in real life senario training i like to square up just like sanchin but my feet are more relaxed and my distance is often short.
not everyone does what i do but this is my personal answer. hope it answers your question.

in a manner of speaking when you turn sideways you are also taking away at least two of your own weapons.

i think your system should work in just about any situation the way it was designed to, and if it doesn't you should try to figure out why. not trying to offend. but if uechi is a frontal fighting system, should you not try to use it that way since that is how its designed to work?

i dont see a need to turn sideways, except for the fact that most sparring, in the tournament sense is based more on speed than really damaging or hurting your opponent with solid contact, so i guess it's easier to sneak in a point with sheer speed.

thanks for the reply

[maxwell ainley]

Van , yes Man united ,Chelsea ,West ham ,A C milan ,Barcelona,
As a kid my favorite was Sheff wednesday in the 70s Leeds United ,over seas Real Madrid .


Soccer is never without differences of opinion So is uechi, but the point is we discuss ,the ones who post .

Anyway on Sanchin as a Kata or a exercise , I see it as a fighting kata no different to say Seisan ,but here again its schools of thought ,here's Kanei " My Father had us sparring after three years of training " back to Kanbuns methods again, give or take after three years all a kanbun student would know ,Was non other than Sanchin ,call it what we wish ,but they were fighting with it .

Kanei "The goju method of performing Sanchin -which is now considered to be a breathing exercise .because of the method of breathing in Goju's sanchin ,it as to be classified as an exercise ,wereas uechi sanchin still remains a Kata ,"

very interesting, which begs me to ask this question.

i've heard Mattson sensei say that uechi is a frontal fighting system, based on sanchin.
i'd like to ask why noone seems to spar this way? why not practice this frontal fighting?

Kempo,

Different schools of thought on subject of sanchin ,its all diverse ,yet back in Kanbun's day you would have been looking at a much more heavy diet of Sanchin than you will normally experience in modern times ,and mostly you would not have this diverse situation we have to day ,it was dead simple ;a heavy exposure to Sanchin .

I have Notes upon a total exposure to Sanchin ,and things are very different ,the school of thought I relate emerges from this type of exposure ,and it can be very painfull ,is a total understatement.
Its exposure is multi faceted amongst other things ,exposure can be painfull ,in some ways like out doors in sub zero temp with no shelter ,each day either illuminates the WILL or you give in ,again its that simple .

Here's Kanbun " you can become a master of karate knowing no other movements than Sanchin"

First of all his statement springs from the exposure I relate ,and this is really the archetype statement for the school of thought on Sanchin as multi faceted ,which takes fully into account fighting and being fully capable of entering a fight with Sanchin .

Yet we have a technical problem here; going through the process to find out .

Total exposure will develop a different type of muscle memory to Sanchin ,which again is part and parcel to the school of thought , basically if the exposure is on target and within various time frames [individuals] an attack upon this structure will produce a pure Sanchin responce ,by the way this may not be what you have in mind ,such as a full frontal posture .

Sanchin is not simply a full frontal stance to use ,A heavy exposure will reveal many things to use and pronto like ,we cant say what would be used in say the chaos of a fight ,at any level of intensive exposure to non other than sanchin .

[hoshin]

Kempo, let me clarify my post so there is not misunderstanding. Now don’t take any of this personally. From what you have stated in these posts you are not a uechi practitioner so I will assume as much and I maybe stating things you already know. Please forgive me.
Your statement that we don’t fight in sanchin I feel is a blanket statement. As we know on these forums blanket statements are met with many cries of foul and the temperatures of many posters tend to rise. I have seen many tournament matches hosted by Uechi organizations and the competitors do try to remain in a relative frontal stance.
Now my post was of general information about karate not necessarily about Uechi. In my younger years before I learnt Uechi, I did many other arts and was an avid point fighter. Yes I fought sideways. Why because it works for that framework. It’s called evolution.
_____________________________________________________________________
I don’t see a need to turn sideways, except for the fact that most sparring, in the tournament sense is based more on speed than really damaging or hurting your opponent with solid contact, so I guess it's easier to sneak in a point with sheer speed.
_____________________________________________________________________
You answered your own question. Not to mention you are playing to the judges. They decide if you win or loose not the blood and broken bones of real violence.

Point fighting is so far removed from real combat that I hate to use them in the same sentence. This thread is not the place for a discussion on point fighting. if you would like one, please start one.  I would be happy to chat about it there.

However no matter what game you play, you play to win whether that is point, contact or real violence. If you want to win you have to do what works. Frontal fighting is more effective for real violence and combat, blading sideways is more effective for competitive points. Do to either in the wrong setting is certain failure.

[Van Canna]

Excellent points Steve.

I know the two of us at least, have experienced this difference you point out.

[kempo-jujitsu]

Kempo, let me clarify my post so there is not misunderstanding. Now don’t take any of this personally. From what you have stated in these posts you are not a uechi practitioner so I will assume as much and I maybe stating things you already know. Please forgive me.

i had hoped that my stating that i don't practice uechi would at least keep temperatures to a minimum. no need for forgiveness, i try not to take offense unless it's blatantly intentional. nor do i intend any offense to anyone else, nor to i want to cause any flame wars, because everyone knows "ma art is betta dan urz any day of da week dawg, erybody noz dat krotty dont work in da real world and u shud all do UFC style" ..just kidding!

[tigereye]

Question To All,

Lately I have received a few inquiries on sanchin. I am looking for input from anyone in the comparison of what some term “old style” sanchin and “contemporary” sanchin.

I have my own views but would really like to hear, or better yet see a posting of the differences, if any.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

Hi Mark,

This my simple observation and thoughts about Sanchin.
If believe if anyone really want to understand Sanchi first of all it is neccessary to put a side to focus on only
to Sanchin stance and breathing.
Although these are very important but the kata is more complex to stop wandering this one particular part of it.

I would like to point out two things what might slip your attantion.

Considering that Uechi-ryu karate is a selfe-defense system,let look at it from this perspective.
Techniques are designed to defend yourself in the quickest, safest and most effective way
using little movements. Sanchin includes pressure point strikes so
these techniques are allowing you to work effectively even when the a body size, strength or position are not
on your advantege.

This is what makes Sanchin brilliant and useful to all.

Another point I would like to recommend to consider to all Martial Arts practitioners is understand the difference between
the words "strategy" and "tactics".

"Strategy and tactics are closely related and exist on the same continuum. Both deal with distance, time and force
but strategy is large scale, can endure through years, and is societal while tactics are small scale and involve the
disposition of fewer elements enduring hours to weeks. Originally strategy was understood to govern the prelude to a
battle while tactics controlled its execution.

The basic principles of tactics:
competency, 'battle drills' which try to promote automatic responses to given situations, and dozens of guides
and instructions that have been written over the centuries. For some, tactics are instinctive.
Sometimes they can be taught. At its heart, tactics is a shifting amalgam of psychology, physics, and statistics."

I cannot imagine to understand Sanchin or any other kata without recognize this part of it.
Or the one possible do not know what self-defense system means at all.