Post your Sanchin Kata Video here

[benzocaine]

Like always please take the comments that are pertinent to the way your Sensei teaches (beleive it or not there are some variations from dojo to dojo ).

First. Excellent spirit, and no doubt in my mind you practice, and are enjoying this!

Things I'd tell you to focus on are:

1) When you do your stikes, hold it out there for a second or two, bring the elbow back in, then step. Slow it down just a little.

2) Have Laird show you more about bushikins. It looks like your thumbs are not in bushikins when you do the three finishing strikes, and that's a great way to break your thumbs.

3) Practice stepping. The stepping foot should come all the way in next to the other foot, and then out agin forward.

Get those thing down and you've got one helluva good sanchin.

[JimHawkins]

Just wondering about the hip postion and the back 'alignment'.

In some parts of Kevin's form the hips seem to be out quite a bit. I can't see the hip position from the side as the stepping is done but the position I refer to can be seen here:



Now, I would think that the hips should be under and the back straight, no? Not sure how this fits in with the hip tuck issue.

[Rick Wilson]

Some disagreements:

“Practice stepping. The stepping foot should come all the way in next to the other foot, and then out again forward.”

I don’t agree. Bringing the foot all the way over to the other foot means you must place your centre of gravity directly over that foot. Doing that puts your hip too far outside the stance and you will rise in your stance. Instead the foot sh

And some agreements:

Jim: Yes his hip is out of position. The should be under. Kevin was incorporating something new in his turn. Whenever you do that something else gives for a while.

[Ruiner]

Thanks for the feed back gentlement.

A few responses

I'll remember to form a good bushkin strike from now on.

Laird doesn't teach us to draw the foot all the way in on the steps due to balancing issues that Rick mentioned.

I like having the whole kata flow without breaks.

My back was bent for sure, Laird says I have a 'predatory' mindset that tends to keep me leaned forward sometimes. Its a hard habit to break but I'll be consious of it.

Thanks again!

Cheers

[Stryke]

Great stuff Kev , liked your kata .

got a few suggestions for ya , but there only suggestions , theres so many ways to do Sanchin and play with it . You inspired me to change my double thrusts .

I`d cut back on the lean , I`m one of the folks who doesnt have much of a problem with it , Laird has a tendacy to do it also and it`s deffinately predatory and powerfull the way he does it . But I feel it may be a bit far for your size . I see benifits in it if accompanied with weighting abit more forward , but thats my shotokan background coming out .

Id personally like to see a more fluid step , it`s nothing but a personal preference , not so much a step technique step technique , but time it so theres really no stop ... as your foot stops you fire and continue waliking ..

Dont know If I`m making sense , and it`s just something I like , feels more flowing . I guess what I`m trying to explain is I prefer the retraction to be finished as the step finishes , I`d talk to Laird and Rick though because once again I`m referencing Shotokan

Youre doing a good job of getting the harmonies with your step , projecting with the forward hand and it following or leading with the knee .

I liked the buskikens , hand position etc is just something that`ll come , no biggie , Ive always had truble with stuff like that , Is hard when theres not a target for me personally .

I dont know if it`s intensional but the side Bushikens lookd a direct strike and the last more of a compression . Ive been thinking of mixing them up in my kata and may be seeing things .

All in all good stuff , takes Balls to put it on the net .

[Ruiner]

No you aren't seeing things, I did mix it up. I really like that compressing double strike, feels.. more powerful and circular.

I've also been working on the lead hand acting as a jab or short radius punch in the sanchin thrust. The rear draw back hand ripping back and transfering a large amount of power into the front, which expresses out. That jab also sets up the powerful sanchin thrust aswell. I've been playing with using boxing techniques in Sanchin, instead of drawing the hand back under the shoulder, I keep the hand by my head to guard.
When the foot lands after a step I'll synch the front hand 'jab' with it. The Sanchin step is a great slip aswell.

Puts a whole new spin on the kata

I guess I'm joining Laird in the Heretic path

Cheers

Fun stuff

[Stryke]

I guess I'm joining Laird in the Heretic path

You always were mate

[benzocaine]

Laird doesn't teach us to draw the foot all the way in on the steps due to balancing issues that Rick mentioned.

I wonder why Master Uechi thought it was a good thing to do?

[Rick Wilson]

Not that it matters, but Kanei Uechi didn’t. Watch a tape of him doing Sanchin and you will clearly see the foot does NOT come right over to the other foot.

[Guest]

Here’s a clip for you Ben.

http://banffuechiryu.tripod.com/sanchin_klein.mpeg

I’d suggest that your comments should be constructive. Instead of the sarcastic comparison of my teaching to what your perception of what master Uechi did, why don’t you just tell use why you think the foot should come all the way in and touch the other foot?

To be honest I grow weary of folks proclaiming, “ that’s not how they do it in Okinawa” or “ that’s not how master Uechi did it”. I do get a chuckle however when the people telling me how it’s done on the island have never been to the island, and when the folks telling me how Uechi did things never trained under him.

I’ve personally thrown out most of what Kanei Uechi added to the system with the exception of kata. As you know my path is not mainstream I'm not saying the other stuff is not good, it's just not for me.

I think we would learn more Ben if you explained why you think it’s stronger rather than trying to support it by claiming some deceased master did it this way.

The reason I do not teach it with the foot coming all the way in is I believe it is a weak position leaving one vunerable to being knocked off their base. Stand with your two feet together and have folks push on you at different angles and you may see what I mean by this.


On a turn, I draw the foot half way back then step off. This is like an absorb and plyometric load. A drawing into the center and exploding The power generation also involves the closing and opening of the hip joints . The focus draws in to the lower dan tein as the foot draws in as I turn it rises to the middle and drops to the lower again as I settle in the stance, a circular feel in the center.

On steps , I draw the foot half way in as I close the hips I generate the step forwards and all the way out by opening the qwa leading with the knee. I see the half way in motion as a cat stance but more weight is in the light leg than in a cat stance. More like 25 to 30%. As the step goes forward it settles and fluctuates 45 to 55%.

I see the drawing in sequence simply as opening and closing the qwa. It is not necessary to draw the feet together to close the qwa, so I only pull in enough to close the hip.I reopen it as I advance.

I also see the drawing in of the foot as avoiding the opponents lead leg and then sweeping as you settle in the stance. If you draw your two feet together as you step past your opponents lead leg you run the risk of being thrown on your back befor you complete your closing step.

Hey Benzo, just how I see it, no right or wrong, please tell us how you see the step.This is what these pages are for sharing and comparing.

BTW, agree with you on the boshikens.

Jim: good comments and illustration of Kevin’s bent posture. It’s something we have been trying to correct; it’s a recent development that has crept in as Kevin has gotten involved in some boxing techniques and lots of inside fighting. I think it really started when he started ducking under kyokushin kicks and closing.

Kevin: the predatory lean you see in my Sanchin is a product of my ankles and knees. I don’t break at the waist and lean in. The body and spine is still fairly straight. There is a slight hunched appearance to by back as my shoulders come over the top and forward. My body position is unique and it’s evolving. I’m a by product of two very different schools of thought. Eventually you will discover your own individual center.

Breaking forward at the waist removes your connection to your base. You have great grounding but have lost your connection to it by bending at the waist. When performing Sanchin against resistance you will find your center has risen to your chest and you can not walk through anything. We will play with it tonight. When we sink down to find the push position we must sink the whole body and not just get lower by bending at the waist

I am very pleased with the progress you have made in Sanchin Kevin. You hit with lots of power, you have managed to incorporate the tia chi into it very well too. I’m particularly impressed with the power you leave in the lead hand during the draw back! You’re a good student who incorporates changes quickly into your kata. I’m sure you will benefit from all the comments.

[Guest]

Here’s Marcus Murray’s recent efforts. Looking very strong mate!


http://banffuechiryu.tripod.com/sanchin_18_04_05.wmv

[gmattson]

Is a good one. No one likes to be told "Kanbun, Kanei (insert name of your favorite master/expert) did it such and such a way. Why are you doing it different?

Regarding the statement:

I wonder why Master Uechi thought it was a good thing to do?

Might be a valid question, but at best all we are going to get is someone's opinion as to why someone did something. It has been my experience that we often misinterprete the reason "experts" do things, then because we say it, we believe it and want others to do the same.

Although people can come up with some interesting explanations "why" they step in the way they do, the primary reason (IMO) for drawing one's foot towards the supporting foot while stepping, is for maintaining balance. Too much emphasis on "touching" the supporting foot or coming close to it, for the sake of touching or coming close, makes the stepping process robotic and inefficient.

The purpose, IMO, is simply moving from one position to another, in a smooth, balanced and controlled manner. There is a reason the step was taken from the stepping action of a tiger or cat. If you wish to watch a real master at work, watch a tiger move.

[benzocaine]

OK guys, You'll never hear me say "Master Uechi did it this way" again.

[Guest]

I don't mind anyone referencing or quoting another master living or dead to make a point.

It's okay for someone to ask me, you don't step the way I do , I step just like master_______ did. Why are you performing it this way?

It's okay is someone says to me master______ never used closed fists, why have you added them to your ryu? I think he never used them because of the injuries and because they are not in the kata, can you validate why you have added this to your Ryu?

What's not okay is when someone just does it in an insulting manner implying that your either an egotist and think your better than said master, or implying that your just a clown and your karate doesn't isn't as authentic as theirs.

But it's totaly okay if someone wants to validate my statements and reference what someone else does. How ever when someone wants to ask me to validate what I do, I expect them to be able to doe the same thing and not hide behind the work of someone who is dead and can not join us on the forums.

If someone wants to say Shu sensei never hit with a closed fist. why do you? This is why I believe you should not, .....that's fine with me.

But if someone says, Kanei sensei didn't do it like that and they can not tell me why, they can not tell me whats flawed in what I'm doing then it's not okay.

When they must ask someone else to come on board to try and bail them out and explain why it must be done in the manner of the dead master then I figure they are just blowing smoke up my kilt . They are hidding behind a dead man because they don't have a clue why: but who's going to question a dead guy.

I think if you invoke the master then you better be able to explain. Other wise I think folks are just out to diss me and they have no ability to discuss the points they have made.

Now back to discussing kata But if you criticque be prepared to pony up.

[JimHawkins]

The purpose, IMO, is simply moving from one position to another, in a smooth, balanced and controlled manner. There is a reason the step was taken from the stepping action of a tiger or cat. If you wish to watch a real master at work, watch a tiger move.

IMO the purpose in bringing one foot in toward the other is to move the CG off the line of force, crescent midpoint, and then into the center, crescent complete - IOW moving off the line of force and then into the line/their CG. This is mainly why we do it anyhow.

The closer you bring one foot to the other the more you move off the line and in the middle of the transition I see body alignment, forward explosion and leg trap opportunities.

I don’t see rising up problems if when you move one foot toward the other the support leg is bent and sunk, like in a cat stance. In WCK as you move off the line the body comes into alignment to issue force and straight in. One leg, the rear supports 90% of the weight during this brief transition and then explodes off that leg; So, you move off the line and then the fire/explode the whole body forward making body power and filling inside space with the body.

Similar movements can be found in many different systems, even Shotokan…


One thing I don't get in Sanchin is why the wa-uke, etc., is not done with the step, or IOW hands moving with feet and body, which, IMO is how it would/should be done in application. Most all systems including Shotokan, WCK and even Tai Chi always or mainly move hands and feet together. Moving the body and then the hands is very odd to me.