Excellent post, Adam.
Again, I bring up the expression "cinematic license." What about the tournament scene in the first Karate Kid movie? It's bullschit, no? And yet if we "experts" squint our eyes, we can see how something that would put a layperson to sleep (a typical tournament) might be conveyed in a way that captures imaginations without too badly destroying content. That is art.
I watch Jackie Chan movies because Jackie entertains me with his martial skill. I can't get enough of it. I'm alternately in awe, pissed off that he's that good, happy that he doesn't take himself so seriously, and amazed that this little man has such big cahones (or is that crazy). But I don't expect to come out of a Jackie Chan movie with bits of wisdom that will help me in self-defense. That's a whole other circle of material in the Venn Diagram of the martial universe.
- Bill
Death of the metrasexual (Thank God!!)
Moderator: Available
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Bill Glasheen
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"You'll have to take that up with the judges of the Golden Globes and the Emmy's, Dr. Ian."
Value for enthusiasm about medicine and entertainment value are poorly correlated, Bill.
"One thing that comes to mind is attitude that people can get when they live too long in large cities, and fail to travel. They develop a "village" mindset which they are convinced is the way the world must work or we are doomed - especially the disenfranchised. Meanwhile in much of the rest of the country (yes, there is life outside Boston, New York, and LA."
You know, I'm scratching my head too, because I got my college and medical training in a small town in central Virginia, as you're well aware, and am reporting an impression based on observations of medicine in 5 states including a hospital practice improvement course in Utah, whose admonitions against heroic individualism I am basically repeating. Even a doctor who works alone in the boonies must not practice alone. If he/she fails to avail him or herself of evidence based practice guidelines, lit reviews, cost effectiveness and efficiency studies, and the resources of the internet and expert consultation, they're negligent.
"While academic medical centers wallow in peer-review, physicians who practice ouside academia and in smaller cities truly believe they do things better."
You don't have to be in academics to do great medicine. If you're doing it alone, however, you aren't doing it better. That's a simple fact. The rate of acquisition of knowledge is geometric. Within several years of graduation, trainees show major knowledge deficits. Within 15 years the majority can't pass boards. To keep up, they'd have to read hours a day on each topic they encountered. The complexity of modern medicine exceeds the capacity of the unaided human mind. To practice as if this weren't true is negligent. As for physicians who think they "do it better," they're not all right.
"Medicine, my friend, is a regional phenomenon. What works in LA won't work in Boise won't work in Boston won't work in Sheboygan."
Funny how much time and effort we've wasted on those national practice guidelines eh? Silly government, silly insurance companies and government, silly all medical societies, what with heart attacks and pneumonia and high cholesterol knowing where they live and altering their behavior accordingly. As for the Sackett quote, I fail to see what shred of it you think my posts are at odds with.
Ahmed wrote: "Who cares if it's fake, it's entertainment."
I addressed this issue when I spoke about unrealistic expectations and distrust of organ donation. Actual live people suffer and die because of artistic license. The rest, sure, is entertainment, and I am much, much more awed by applications of true martial skill in movies than I am by flash. I'm reminded of the first 3 blows Lee lands on O'hara in Enter the Dragon. Anyway, we're martial artists (I'm a doctor) so we can understand the fantasy portion of movies and understand their translation to the world. Not true for everyone.
Value for enthusiasm about medicine and entertainment value are poorly correlated, Bill.
"One thing that comes to mind is attitude that people can get when they live too long in large cities, and fail to travel. They develop a "village" mindset which they are convinced is the way the world must work or we are doomed - especially the disenfranchised. Meanwhile in much of the rest of the country (yes, there is life outside Boston, New York, and LA."
You know, I'm scratching my head too, because I got my college and medical training in a small town in central Virginia, as you're well aware, and am reporting an impression based on observations of medicine in 5 states including a hospital practice improvement course in Utah, whose admonitions against heroic individualism I am basically repeating. Even a doctor who works alone in the boonies must not practice alone. If he/she fails to avail him or herself of evidence based practice guidelines, lit reviews, cost effectiveness and efficiency studies, and the resources of the internet and expert consultation, they're negligent.
"While academic medical centers wallow in peer-review, physicians who practice ouside academia and in smaller cities truly believe they do things better."
You don't have to be in academics to do great medicine. If you're doing it alone, however, you aren't doing it better. That's a simple fact. The rate of acquisition of knowledge is geometric. Within several years of graduation, trainees show major knowledge deficits. Within 15 years the majority can't pass boards. To keep up, they'd have to read hours a day on each topic they encountered. The complexity of modern medicine exceeds the capacity of the unaided human mind. To practice as if this weren't true is negligent. As for physicians who think they "do it better," they're not all right.
"Medicine, my friend, is a regional phenomenon. What works in LA won't work in Boise won't work in Boston won't work in Sheboygan."
Funny how much time and effort we've wasted on those national practice guidelines eh? Silly government, silly insurance companies and government, silly all medical societies, what with heart attacks and pneumonia and high cholesterol knowing where they live and altering their behavior accordingly. As for the Sackett quote, I fail to see what shred of it you think my posts are at odds with.
Ahmed wrote: "Who cares if it's fake, it's entertainment."
I addressed this issue when I spoke about unrealistic expectations and distrust of organ donation. Actual live people suffer and die because of artistic license. The rest, sure, is entertainment, and I am much, much more awed by applications of true martial skill in movies than I am by flash. I'm reminded of the first 3 blows Lee lands on O'hara in Enter the Dragon. Anyway, we're martial artists (I'm a doctor) so we can understand the fantasy portion of movies and understand their translation to the world. Not true for everyone.
--Ian
Im surprised people can't tell the difference between real life and fiction.I addressed this issue when I spoke about unrealistic expectations and distrust of organ donation. Actual live people suffer and die because of artistic license. The rest, sure, is entertainment, and I am much, much more awed by applications of true martial skill in movies than I am by flash. I'm reminded of the first 3 blows Lee lands on O'hara in Enter the Dragon. Anyway, we're martial artists (I'm a doctor) so we can understand the fantasy portion of movies and understand their translation to the world. Not true for everyone.
Maybe there should be a disclaimer?(im serious about this) Stating that it's not accurate to a tee.
But hey, ive heard real forensics is NOTHING like it is in CSI.
But if it was, the show would be WAAAY more boring.
Look at Jet li's movies.
Wushu is in it self, a great art. It may not be a fighting art, but it's HARD to do. It ain't easy.
Jet Li, when making "cradle 2 the grave"(i don't know if i spelled this right)
stated that TIto Ortiz and Randy Couture would murder him in a real fight(or something along those lines), and that he was simply an entertainer.
I like both realistic and fantasy martial arts. Jackie chan is by no means realisitc, but if you watch "The Drunken Master" he does some CRAZY stunts, and the fighting is like Ballet.
Watch 'the hunted' and other movies that have some semi-realistic martial arts fight scenes, and i enjoy those too. Batman begins is, in SOME WAYS like this, where they use the Keysi fighting system and exaggerate the hell out of it.
It's pretty sad though, that people watch HOUSE and think it's real.
Im not surprised it happens though.
Is a disclaimer saying "the Following is not realistic hospital stuff you retards" really such a bad idea? Obviously it should be worded in a more politically correct manner but.....
How about something along the lines of a GI Joe "knowing is half the battle" disclaimer? At the end of an organ donor episode where the doc kills someone for organs, or the transplant surgeon speaks with the decedent's family, or something silly along those lines (if they MUST occur), they could explain how it really works and mention the skyrocketing number of people waiting and dying while waiting for organs? I always wanted to know more about real medicine when I watched the dramatic version taking place.
As an aside, I saw on a TV show (Dateline? or similar) that real juries have dismissed slam dunk cases against criminals because they expect full-on CSI style data (eg, DNA not just witnesses) much to the dismay of real life forensics/ prosecutor people.
At least one can watch "forensics files" on Court TV, as those are real (if interesting) cases. The few CSI's I've seen are laugh out loud funny.
As an aside, I saw on a TV show (Dateline? or similar) that real juries have dismissed slam dunk cases against criminals because they expect full-on CSI style data (eg, DNA not just witnesses) much to the dismay of real life forensics/ prosecutor people.
At least one can watch "forensics files" on Court TV, as those are real (if interesting) cases. The few CSI's I've seen are laugh out loud funny.
--Ian
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Bill Glasheen
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- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I keep saying, Ian, that you're missing your calling. You're right out there in Hollywierd land. Time to sell your services and give the world a taste of real medicine.
Think it would sell?
Discovery and History Channels are for the intellectually inclined. Network TV is eye and brain candy. Man cannot live by bread alone you know...
And come to think of it... Not much whole grain bread eating going on in the world these days.
- Bill
Think it would sell?
Discovery and History Channels are for the intellectually inclined. Network TV is eye and brain candy. Man cannot live by bread alone you know...
And come to think of it... Not much whole grain bread eating going on in the world these days.
- Bill
A news article out online this week related to this earlier thread, describing the pros and cons of the programs Gene mentioned:Gene DeMambro wrote: As for health care professionals being addicts and getting their junk outside of work, I can't speak for that. I can say that most state licensing boards have programs where someone with a substance abuse problem can self-report to their licensing board, seek help, be monitored and keep their license and their livelihood.
Addicted doctors still practice while in rehab
Glenn
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Bill Glasheen
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- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
You know what?
For the last week, I've been hearing day in and day out about The Mitchell Report - the investigation of the use of anabolic steroids and HGH by Major League Baseball players. All summer long, Barry Bonds was getting railed by the public. Now Rocket Roger Clemens - the white Barry Bonds - is getting his due. Team after team is dealing with our sports heroes being villified in public.
Today you can't play football and baseball without drug testing. You can't compete in the Olympics without drug testing. I couldn't get a job at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Virginia without a drug test.
And we let doctors get away with this schit?
Nothing personal, Dr. Jones, but time to start peeing in a jar - on a regular basis. What's good for a professional athlete is good for the person who has your life in his/her hands.
Am I off base here?
- Bill
For the last week, I've been hearing day in and day out about The Mitchell Report - the investigation of the use of anabolic steroids and HGH by Major League Baseball players. All summer long, Barry Bonds was getting railed by the public. Now Rocket Roger Clemens - the white Barry Bonds - is getting his due. Team after team is dealing with our sports heroes being villified in public.
Today you can't play football and baseball without drug testing. You can't compete in the Olympics without drug testing. I couldn't get a job at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Virginia without a drug test.
And we let doctors get away with this schit?
Nothing personal, Dr. Jones, but time to start peeing in a jar - on a regular basis. What's good for a professional athlete is good for the person who has your life in his/her hands.
Am I off base here?
- Bill
I've got nothing to hide... but you'll miss alcoholism and you'll miss doctors who are smart about their addiction. Fentanyl is gone fast and unless these were unscheduled, it'd be tough to detect. Meanwhile, does anyone know how many other people (from drivers to soldiers to nuke plant operators) are tested, and what the cost per "save" is? I'd be curious. Further, I think there'd be more bang for the buck if we focused on evidence of impairment; lots of doctors do crazy things and no one says anything--high or not, that's the problem.
--Ian
