There's a sniper in my home

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:35 am

Be sure to exhale as you thrust, it will make you feel good.

Assuming any of you had had the drop on those guys, would you have pulled the trigger?

------------------
Van Canna

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:10 am

Van

What do you think of that passage from Psalm 91, speaking about being beyond fear? The last part really struck me <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...meaning death all around you, and death caused BY you... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ...and you experience that "out of body" feeling.

Somebody that wrote this knew about the cocktail in the battle, no? Amazing! A devout Christian came to me a few days ago and showed it to me. She said it would blow me away...and it did!

- Bill

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:43 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

~Pslam 91~ 1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the almighty. 2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God in Him will I trust. 3 Surely He shall deliver thee from teh snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestillence. 4 He shall cover thee with His feathers, and under His wings shalt thou trust: His truth shall be thy shield and buckler. 5 Thou shall not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; 6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. 7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. 8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. 9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; 10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For He shall give His angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. 13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt tou trample under feet. 14 Because he hath set his love upon me, there fore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour. 16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

The Psalm is an innvocation for God's protection during warfare. The underlying theme is that with God's help you will be delivered from the fighting and kept safe. It does not imply that you will remove yourself from the fighting. It is rather curious that you have to trample the lion and the adder AND the young lion and the dragon in the process. It implies that you will transcend hell (adder), earth (lion), and upper earth (dragon) as you are saved from the battle.

So it is a poetic way of saying that you'll go to hell and back before you succeed.

But all that really matters is that they caught the guy. There was a wonderful lightness of being and elation in the dojo tonight. Lots of happy chatter and good spirit. It was wonderful to see and be around.

And life goes on...

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:19 am

Maybe they got 'em!!!
That would sure be nice (to make a mild understatement.)

I just hope they don't botch up the questioning and have allowed the guys to have representation during the questioning.

Dana

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:45 am

I think they are doing the right thing, Dana. They have refrained from searching the Chevy Caprice until after the search warrant was acquired.

Meanwhile, they already have the fingerprint of the 17-year-old on a piece of paper at the Montgomery, AL shooting where one woman was killed and another critically wounded with a shot to the face. They have a positive ID of the 42-year-old at that place. They have the 42-year-old on weapons charges already.

They will do SOME time...

Hopefully some place REAL warm...

- Bill

P.S. Time to exhale, Dana.

Gene DeMambro · Post by **Gene DeMambro** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Assuming any of you had had the drop on those guys, would you have pulled the trigger?

Well, a truck driver noticed the wanted men at the same rest stop he was at and called in the tip...then blocked the exit with his truck.

If he was armed, would he have fired?

If he fired_at two sleeping men in their car_would he have been justified?

It took a while for the cops (including tactical teams) to get there, and when they did, they swarmed on the car like a pissed off bee-hive. The suspects never knew what hit them.

The cops had the drop on them, but didn't shoot. They weren't provoked (i.e. shot at or otherwise threatened).

If the cops shot_at two sleeping men in their car_would they have been justified?

Gene

[This message has been edited by Gene DeMambro (edited October 25, 2002).]

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:28 pm

Gene

There are things worse than death in this world.

Because they were off guard and because there was overwhelming force, it was not necessary to kill. It was more artful and dramatic and satisfying to snatch them and handcuff them and take them away and give EVERYONE an opportunity (especially the victims) to participate in their fate.

Plus...there's this thing about presumption of innocence before being found guilty. Nobody knew for sure these were the bad guys until they got the AR-15 and did the ballistics on it. They were asleep, and not out on the field with an innocent in the line of fire. This is the reality of law enforcement.. Anybody ever read The Ox Bow Incident?

If it were me vs. the bad guys in the city and they would get away if I didn't do something and the weapon was pointed at an innocent, then all bets are off... There are some certain things/situations in life.

Dana

Thanks for the commentary on the Psalm. I am in agreement with you on the broader interpretation.

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited October 25, 2002).]

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:39 pm

Gene,

Bill's answer is right on.

My question was related to your finding yourself with a clean shot at the sniper while he was in the process of snuffing someone's life.

But can you imagine rigging that car to fire from inside and through a hole in the trunk?

Chilling.

Now imagine copycats or a team of Al Queda terrorists dispersing all around the US with the same rig.

Oh, I know, gun control is the answer.

Confiscate all guns from the Americans so the terrorists and the nutcases will be prevented from obtaining them, right?

Gene DeMambro · Post by **Gene DeMambro** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Because they were off guard and because there was overwhelming force, it was not necessary to kill.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Plus...there's this thing about presumption of innocence before being found guilty.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

They were asleep, and not out on the field with an innocent in the line of fire.

My point exactly. The truck driver and the cops got the drop on the witnesses/suspects, and everyone came away happy, relieved...and alive.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

If it were me vs. the bad guys in the city and they would get away if I didn't do something and the weapon was pointed at an innocent, then all bets are off... There are some certain things/situations in life.

Me too, and I'm pro-gun.

Gene

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:43 am

My question was related to your finding yourself with a clean shot at the sniper while he was in the process of snuffing someone's life

Van, as always, you cut right through the bullsh## and get right to the core of the situation. When there is no question about what is happening. You see him shooting and the victims fall dead. When you see him put another round into the chamber, take aim and about to fire. When there is no denial.
When it is you and him. If faced with the exact situation you outline above. Where there is no question of the shooter's intention and if I do not respond, another innocent life could be taken, I hope I would choose to use my S&W 357 or Colt Commander the same way I would to destroy a rabid dog.
I would shoot to kill. I prey that I would have the courage to do this and face the consequences of my actions.
Bill, I read the "Ox Bow Incident" when I was a young teenager. The book influenced how I perceived a rush to judgement and mob mentality. I still think of that book whenever I hear people react too quickly with that "just kill them" mentality. There are two sides to every coin and both sides must be examined. That's why we have trials and not lynch mobs.

Vinny Christiano

LeeDarrow · Post by **LeeDarrow** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:12 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Van Canna:
Gene,

Bill's answer is right on.

My question was related to your finding yourself with a clean shot at the sniper while he was in the process of snuffing someone's life.

But can you imagine rigging that car to fire from inside and through a hole in the trunk?

Chilling.

Now imagine copycats or a team of Al Queda terrorists dispersing all around the US with the same rig.

Oh, I know, gun control is the answer.

Confiscate all guns from the Americans so the terrorists and the nutcases will be prevented from obtaining them, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On dropping the hammer on him while he's lining up a shot. I would have to say, I hope I would, but I have never fired a shot in anger and am smart enough to know about "buck fever" and the deliberate taking of a human life (and it's probable effects on my psyche).

I also know that I tend to be fiercely protective of those I love and of innocent bystanders, which gives me the belief that I probably would drop the hammer.

Whether or not I would hit him is another question altogether.

I'd like to think that I would. I remember hitting a skeet on a skeet range with a Baretta 93 once in my youth.......

But that was a LONG time ago.

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.