Hi,
One question that bugs me: If Zhou Zi He was a master of Tiger boxing, why did he teach Kanbun the hybrid (tiger,dragon,crane)style of Uechi-ryu? Anybody got any ideas?
KB
shu shi wa's nephew???
Moderator: Available
shu shi wa's nephew???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KB:
One question that bugs me: If Zhou Zi He was a master of Tiger boxing, why did he teach Kanbun the hybrid (tiger,dragon,crane)style of Uechi-ryu? Anybody got any ideas?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good question. Maybe these weren't descriptions that Zhou used, but were instead Kanbun's interpretations of various aspects of what he was being taught.
Or maybe Zhou and the others have used these descriptions but feel the emphasis is on the tiger aspect so they simply refer to it as Tiger Boxing.
That would be a good question to ask someone like Chang Tian Si...Simon might have some ideas on that too.
Something else to think about is that Uechi Ryu is considered to have been derived from tiger boxing while Goju Ryu is considered to have been derived from crane boxing (several researchers believe Higashionna's teacher was the founder of Whooping Crane boxing), yet look at the similarities between the two.
From stories about Kanbun and a Chinese White Crane practioner called Gokenki, Kanbun apparently interacted with crane practioners, maybe he actually did some blending of Zhou's tiger boxing with other influences that he received.
Several possibilities...all conjectural though.
------------------
Glenn
[This message has been edited by Glenn (edited August 26, 2002).]
One question that bugs me: If Zhou Zi He was a master of Tiger boxing, why did he teach Kanbun the hybrid (tiger,dragon,crane)style of Uechi-ryu? Anybody got any ideas?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good question. Maybe these weren't descriptions that Zhou used, but were instead Kanbun's interpretations of various aspects of what he was being taught.
Or maybe Zhou and the others have used these descriptions but feel the emphasis is on the tiger aspect so they simply refer to it as Tiger Boxing.
That would be a good question to ask someone like Chang Tian Si...Simon might have some ideas on that too.
Something else to think about is that Uechi Ryu is considered to have been derived from tiger boxing while Goju Ryu is considered to have been derived from crane boxing (several researchers believe Higashionna's teacher was the founder of Whooping Crane boxing), yet look at the similarities between the two.
From stories about Kanbun and a Chinese White Crane practioner called Gokenki, Kanbun apparently interacted with crane practioners, maybe he actually did some blending of Zhou's tiger boxing with other influences that he received.
Several possibilities...all conjectural though.
------------------
Glenn
[This message has been edited by Glenn (edited August 26, 2002).]
shu shi wa's nephew???
While keeping in mind that there is no consensus as to to who taught Zhou Zi He, something else that might be informative is to look at the styles of the names who have generally been listed as being his teachers (in this order):
Zhou Bei - Southern Shaolin Fist
He Xi Di - Iron Fist
Ko Sai Tei - Southern Tiger Fist
If this history is accurate, clearly Zhou could have done some blending.
The crane is generally considered an important aspect of the Southern Shaolin styles, so we could presume that Zi He may have learned crane from Zhou Bei.
It's impossible to say from the name if the Iron Fist training focused on a particular 'animal'...I could see such training as being applicable to all three.
Clearly the emphasis of Ko Sai Tei was on the tiger. Ko is said to have been Zhou's last teacher, and thus may have had the greatest influence...hence why Zhou is usually said to have been a master of Tiger boxing. Or maybe Zhou excelled at this style more than the others, or took to it better, or simply prefered it over the others...and as a result simply augmented the tiger with aspects of the crane and dragon.
------------------
Glenn
Zhou Bei - Southern Shaolin Fist
He Xi Di - Iron Fist
Ko Sai Tei - Southern Tiger Fist
If this history is accurate, clearly Zhou could have done some blending.
The crane is generally considered an important aspect of the Southern Shaolin styles, so we could presume that Zi He may have learned crane from Zhou Bei.
It's impossible to say from the name if the Iron Fist training focused on a particular 'animal'...I could see such training as being applicable to all three.
Clearly the emphasis of Ko Sai Tei was on the tiger. Ko is said to have been Zhou's last teacher, and thus may have had the greatest influence...hence why Zhou is usually said to have been a master of Tiger boxing. Or maybe Zhou excelled at this style more than the others, or took to it better, or simply prefered it over the others...and as a result simply augmented the tiger with aspects of the crane and dragon.
------------------
Glenn
-
maxwell ainley
- Posts: 1690
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: england
shu shi wa's nephew???
GLENN,
There are photo's in the article ,of Master Chang; if I had a digital camera ,I could have posted them for your veiwing and comments. I just need to improve on computers .
Every one interested in uechi history will have some type of theory to its origins etc, I used to think it was a blend of three different styles ,but after study and re-study, I changed my veiw .
What I find interesting is three levels of "San San Hu"[upper,middle,lower]or "Si Mong" a similar idea to the "Tekki" forms or "Kushanku Dai" Kushanku Sho" .
In Chow Gar Mantis some forms only differed by the addition of two or more different techniques .
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
There are photo's in the article ,of Master Chang; if I had a digital camera ,I could have posted them for your veiwing and comments. I just need to improve on computers .
Every one interested in uechi history will have some type of theory to its origins etc, I used to think it was a blend of three different styles ,but after study and re-study, I changed my veiw .
What I find interesting is three levels of "San San Hu"[upper,middle,lower]or "Si Mong" a similar idea to the "Tekki" forms or "Kushanku Dai" Kushanku Sho" .
In Chow Gar Mantis some forms only differed by the addition of two or more different techniques .
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
shu shi wa's nephew???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maxwell ainley:
There are photo's in the article ,of Master Chang; if I had a digital camera ,I could have posted them for your veiwing and comments. I just need to improve on computers .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Max,
The reference you gave looks like an e-mail address, does that mean that copies of this article can be ordered?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What I find interesting is three levels of "San San Hu"[upper,middle,lower]or "Si Mong" a similar idea to the "Tekki" forms or "Kushanku Dai" Kushanku Sho" .
In Chow Gar Mantis some forms only differed by the addition of two or more different techniques .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes that is intriguing. I also remember hearing or reading Simon saying that the forms appeared to be less rigid in Fuzhou...i.e. two people training under the same teacher might practice the same form differently, or the same person might do it differently on two separate occassions. I think the example he gave was they might use one type of kick one time and another type of kick in the same form the next time. He gave the impression that they were not trying to do a form exactly the same way everytime as you see in Okinawan/Japanese styles. That always struck me as intriguing from a training standpoint. Could keep you from getting too rigid and constrained in your training. It could also explain why each Okinawan/Japanese style has tended to develop so many kata while many Chinese styles seem to have kept their number of forms low.
------------------
Glenn
There are photo's in the article ,of Master Chang; if I had a digital camera ,I could have posted them for your veiwing and comments. I just need to improve on computers .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Max,
The reference you gave looks like an e-mail address, does that mean that copies of this article can be ordered?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
History is like that. I also wonder (although I didn't list it as a possibility above) if we might be attributing too much to the animal conceptualization in the Chinese martial arts. Some of the perception of what is tiger, crane, or dragon will be cultural and might be more symbolic than methodological.Every one interested in uechi history will have some type of theory to its origins etc, I used to think it was a blend of three different styles ,but after study and re-study, I changed my veiw .
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What I find interesting is three levels of "San San Hu"[upper,middle,lower]or "Si Mong" a similar idea to the "Tekki" forms or "Kushanku Dai" Kushanku Sho" .
In Chow Gar Mantis some forms only differed by the addition of two or more different techniques .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes that is intriguing. I also remember hearing or reading Simon saying that the forms appeared to be less rigid in Fuzhou...i.e. two people training under the same teacher might practice the same form differently, or the same person might do it differently on two separate occassions. I think the example he gave was they might use one type of kick one time and another type of kick in the same form the next time. He gave the impression that they were not trying to do a form exactly the same way everytime as you see in Okinawan/Japanese styles. That always struck me as intriguing from a training standpoint. Could keep you from getting too rigid and constrained in your training. It could also explain why each Okinawan/Japanese style has tended to develop so many kata while many Chinese styles seem to have kept their number of forms low.
------------------
Glenn
-
maxwell ainley
- Posts: 1690
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: england
shu shi wa's nephew???
GLENN,
yes it is a email address ,you could be in luck they may still have back issues .
Master Chang in the photo's does look very "Tigerish" .
In uechi some practioners tend to look more "Crane-Like" or in the same position others "Tiger-Like".
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
yes it is a email address ,you could be in luck they may still have back issues .
Master Chang in the photo's does look very "Tigerish" .
In uechi some practioners tend to look more "Crane-Like" or in the same position others "Tiger-Like".
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
shu shi wa's nephew???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
In the 1980s, there was a crane master that came over and taught us a VERY stylized crane form (actually the first of two over a several year time period). Watching him do the form from time to time was like listening to a great jazz musician play a piece from time to time. The more people that were watching, the more he would embellish the form. But what he taught us was a skeleton of the thing he was doing.
Perhaps to these people, freezing a form in time is like me freezing the way I do my weight workout. If I couldn't mix things up a few times a year (or day to day for that matter), I'd go absolutely NUTS!!! I think there's a real spontaneously creative talent there that the Okinawans perhaps completely missed.
But that's fine by me. Each culture must put their own stamp on whatever "it" is.
- Bill
That is absolutely the case. Simon told me he saw different people adding or deleting specific techniques to the form, and "the old man" would just watch and nod. When he left China and then came back to study the form more, he noted that there had been some changes. I saw those changes manifested inbetween the first film I saw of Simon doing the form and the time I finally met up with him and learned it from him.I also remember hearing or reading Simon saying that the forms appeared to be less rigid in Fuzhou...i.e. two people training under the same teacher might practice the same form differently, or the same person might do it differently on two separate occassions.
In the 1980s, there was a crane master that came over and taught us a VERY stylized crane form (actually the first of two over a several year time period). Watching him do the form from time to time was like listening to a great jazz musician play a piece from time to time. The more people that were watching, the more he would embellish the form. But what he taught us was a skeleton of the thing he was doing.
Perhaps to these people, freezing a form in time is like me freezing the way I do my weight workout. If I couldn't mix things up a few times a year (or day to day for that matter), I'd go absolutely NUTS!!! I think there's a real spontaneously creative talent there that the Okinawans perhaps completely missed.
But that's fine by me. Each culture must put their own stamp on whatever "it" is.
- Bill
shu shi wa's nephew???
Hi,
I knew I had seen that article! There are indeed three photos of master Chiang. The first one shows him in what looks like a familiar Uechi-ryu tiger paw/grasping kamae in quite a wide,legs well-bent sanchin stance. In the second shot, he is performing a shomen geri with the heel of the foot,arms in tiger hand kamae. In the third photo master Chiang is assuming what looks very much like a Uechi forward-facing horse stance with the front hand in kamae and the rear hand striking to the groin (both hands in tiger paw position). As I am sure you realize, it is difficult to interprete stills and I have probably totally misunderstood the last photo! Nevertheless, I hope it helps.
Yours,
KB
I knew I had seen that article! There are indeed three photos of master Chiang. The first one shows him in what looks like a familiar Uechi-ryu tiger paw/grasping kamae in quite a wide,legs well-bent sanchin stance. In the second shot, he is performing a shomen geri with the heel of the foot,arms in tiger hand kamae. In the third photo master Chiang is assuming what looks very much like a Uechi forward-facing horse stance with the front hand in kamae and the rear hand striking to the groin (both hands in tiger paw position). As I am sure you realize, it is difficult to interprete stills and I have probably totally misunderstood the last photo! Nevertheless, I hope it helps.
Yours,
KB
-
maxwell ainley
- Posts: 1690
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: england
shu shi wa's nephew???
K.B.
you are correct,there are three photo's, plus a portrait of the Master, along with Master Zhou Chi Ho ,also its a two part article.
cont,
A San Hu[Tiger Descending The Hill]
This was the third and final pattern I was to learn during my month of training.
Eight movements shorter than San San Hu, this form is possibly the most "Tigerish" of them all,and to see Master Chang perform this pattern one could easily imagine him to be a tiger in human form-or had I been in china too long? Not only is this pattern immensely powerful,it is also rather ferocious,and short.But not so stocky as he is with not an over-impressive physique,to see my Master move was to understand something of inner power and endless years of traditional,self motivated training.
The three remaining forms which time did not permit me to learn were the shorter "Dung San Hu"[Tiger Emerges From The Cave],the powerful Sanchin like "Bagua" [Eight Diagrams],and the aforementioned "Kungua" [Cutting Diagram].
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
you are correct,there are three photo's, plus a portrait of the Master, along with Master Zhou Chi Ho ,also its a two part article.
cont,
A San Hu[Tiger Descending The Hill]
This was the third and final pattern I was to learn during my month of training.
Eight movements shorter than San San Hu, this form is possibly the most "Tigerish" of them all,and to see Master Chang perform this pattern one could easily imagine him to be a tiger in human form-or had I been in china too long? Not only is this pattern immensely powerful,it is also rather ferocious,and short.But not so stocky as he is with not an over-impressive physique,to see my Master move was to understand something of inner power and endless years of traditional,self motivated training.
The three remaining forms which time did not permit me to learn were the shorter "Dung San Hu"[Tiger Emerges From The Cave],the powerful Sanchin like "Bagua" [Eight Diagrams],and the aforementioned "Kungua" [Cutting Diagram].
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
-
maxwell ainley
- Posts: 1690
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: england
shu shi wa's nephew???
cont,
My tuition under Sensei Chang was on a purely instructional level, warming-up and loosening -off being my own responsibility ahead of training.Thus,no time would be wasted through the supervision of unnecessarily supervised practice.
Training was six days per week[sundays being free] whilst each session lasted for a period of two hours.Training was once per day,on a alternating basis.
From Form To Forum
My four weeks of training ended with a demonstration by me of the three "Tiger" forms I had learnt.This was not my idea but one suggested by the FWA and for this privilege I had to pay a fee- isn't Chinese bureaucracy wonderful? However it wasn't all that bad.
A week or two previously I had been asking so many diversified questions pertaining to different aspects and styles of Wu Shu that it was suggested a forum should be held consisting of a number of Wu Shu Masters . This forum ,it was decided was to be tagged on to the end of my demonstrations .Present at this forum were Masters of Bagua Zhang,Taiji Quan, Dog Boxing; and of course Tiger Boxing .Needless to say my Master Chang Tian Si , was also in attendance.
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
My tuition under Sensei Chang was on a purely instructional level, warming-up and loosening -off being my own responsibility ahead of training.Thus,no time would be wasted through the supervision of unnecessarily supervised practice.
Training was six days per week[sundays being free] whilst each session lasted for a period of two hours.Training was once per day,on a alternating basis.
From Form To Forum
My four weeks of training ended with a demonstration by me of the three "Tiger" forms I had learnt.This was not my idea but one suggested by the FWA and for this privilege I had to pay a fee- isn't Chinese bureaucracy wonderful? However it wasn't all that bad.
A week or two previously I had been asking so many diversified questions pertaining to different aspects and styles of Wu Shu that it was suggested a forum should be held consisting of a number of Wu Shu Masters . This forum ,it was decided was to be tagged on to the end of my demonstrations .Present at this forum were Masters of Bagua Zhang,Taiji Quan, Dog Boxing; and of course Tiger Boxing .Needless to say my Master Chang Tian Si , was also in attendance.
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
shu shi wa's nephew???
Here is a letter from Simon that is from the May 1998 Mailbag:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hi George,
How goes it?
Please give me your feedback on this...
To all Uechiryu practitioners, and Uechiryu enthusiasts...
I am currently planning a book centred around:
yibailingbabu
xiashanhu
and the huxingsanzhan.
For those of you whom are not so familiar with these Chinese names...
Yibailingbabu is the 108 step (suparenpei) form I was taught in Fuzhou by my teacher - a 96 year-old 2nd Generation student/Master under Zhou Zi He (Shu Shi Wa)
Xiashanhu is another form (‘Tiger Descending Mountain') taught to me by 'the Old man' (this is one of the three sanseiru forms of the Fuzhou Tiger system) and Huxingsanzhan is the Fuzhou Tiger style Sanchin form taught to me ten years ago in Fuzhou by Master Zhang Tian Ci. Also within this book will appear other fascinating studies, whilst I also wish to focus upon both Zhou Zi He (Shu Shi Wa) and Shang Di Wan Wen (Uechi Kanbun).
In order to do such an ambitious project justice, I would very much like to receive ideas, feedback, and essays from all those Uechiryu practitioners and supporters that have been following the lives of these two eminent masters...or simply have something to say. Everything is welcome - from a short list of notes to a full-length thesis!
I would like to encourage no-one to think that their opinion is worthless! The more ideas I can amalgamate (no matter how radical and/or contraversial you might think they are) the more wide-angle a perspective I can present. Naturally I have my own ideas, but this book
is not about me, it is about Fuzhou, Master Zhou, and Uechi Kanbun.
Should you have any photographs that you consider interesting, useful, and usable, these would be most welcome. Should you be a keen drawer, sketcher, or painter, this kind of creative contribution would also be received with much appreciation. All material received will be returned to the sender if you so desire (just tell me when you write), whilst all
contributors whose material I use will be acknowledged within the book's 'credits' section (unless you specifically request your name to be omitted).
Please help to make this a unique presentation that all Uechi traditionalists will be proud of!
For initial feedback I may be reached most easily and conveniently by way of Email (karate@llouis.demon.co.uk) whilst submissions other than the written word should be forwarded to my regular mailing address:
"The Haven",
Park Road,
Wootton Bridge,
Ryde,
Isle Of Wight,
PO33 4RL.,
England,
(UK).
Thank you very much for your support.
Simon Lailey. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Has anyone heard if this book is still in the works? Also note that Simon studied under Zhang Tian Ci over 10 years ago (leading to the article that is being posted by Max) and that the person he learned Suparenpei from was someone else (who to date has not been named as far as I can tell). That would indicate that he has studied under two teachers who are in Zhou Zi He's lineage. I wonder how their teachings compare?
------------------
Glenn
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hi George,
How goes it?
Please give me your feedback on this...
To all Uechiryu practitioners, and Uechiryu enthusiasts...
I am currently planning a book centred around:
yibailingbabu
xiashanhu
and the huxingsanzhan.
For those of you whom are not so familiar with these Chinese names...
Yibailingbabu is the 108 step (suparenpei) form I was taught in Fuzhou by my teacher - a 96 year-old 2nd Generation student/Master under Zhou Zi He (Shu Shi Wa)
Xiashanhu is another form (‘Tiger Descending Mountain') taught to me by 'the Old man' (this is one of the three sanseiru forms of the Fuzhou Tiger system) and Huxingsanzhan is the Fuzhou Tiger style Sanchin form taught to me ten years ago in Fuzhou by Master Zhang Tian Ci. Also within this book will appear other fascinating studies, whilst I also wish to focus upon both Zhou Zi He (Shu Shi Wa) and Shang Di Wan Wen (Uechi Kanbun).
In order to do such an ambitious project justice, I would very much like to receive ideas, feedback, and essays from all those Uechiryu practitioners and supporters that have been following the lives of these two eminent masters...or simply have something to say. Everything is welcome - from a short list of notes to a full-length thesis!
I would like to encourage no-one to think that their opinion is worthless! The more ideas I can amalgamate (no matter how radical and/or contraversial you might think they are) the more wide-angle a perspective I can present. Naturally I have my own ideas, but this book
is not about me, it is about Fuzhou, Master Zhou, and Uechi Kanbun.
Should you have any photographs that you consider interesting, useful, and usable, these would be most welcome. Should you be a keen drawer, sketcher, or painter, this kind of creative contribution would also be received with much appreciation. All material received will be returned to the sender if you so desire (just tell me when you write), whilst all
contributors whose material I use will be acknowledged within the book's 'credits' section (unless you specifically request your name to be omitted).
Please help to make this a unique presentation that all Uechi traditionalists will be proud of!
For initial feedback I may be reached most easily and conveniently by way of Email (karate@llouis.demon.co.uk) whilst submissions other than the written word should be forwarded to my regular mailing address:
"The Haven",
Park Road,
Wootton Bridge,
Ryde,
Isle Of Wight,
PO33 4RL.,
England,
(UK).
Thank you very much for your support.
Simon Lailey. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Has anyone heard if this book is still in the works? Also note that Simon studied under Zhang Tian Ci over 10 years ago (leading to the article that is being posted by Max) and that the person he learned Suparenpei from was someone else (who to date has not been named as far as I can tell). That would indicate that he has studied under two teachers who are in Zhou Zi He's lineage. I wonder how their teachings compare?
------------------
Glenn
shu shi wa's nephew???
Here's an interesting looking website, with pictures, on Tiger kungfu that mentions Zhang Tian Ci and Zhou Zi He:
http://www.wudang.cis.com.pl/tygrys_24.html
Too bad I can't read Polish.
------------------
Glenn
http://www.wudang.cis.com.pl/tygrys_24.html
Too bad I can't read Polish.
------------------
Glenn
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
shu shi wa's nephew???
Glenn
I sent a note to Simon (to 3 e-mail addresses I have for him). When we link up again, I'll see what we can do about an information exchange.
By the way, thanks to EVERYONE (especially Max and Glenn) for all the wonderful information.
- Bill
I sent a note to Simon (to 3 e-mail addresses I have for him). When we link up again, I'll see what we can do about an information exchange.
By the way, thanks to EVERYONE (especially Max and Glenn) for all the wonderful information.
- Bill
-
maxwell ainley
- Posts: 1690
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: england
shu shi wa's nephew???
Glenn,
Thanks for posting that information.Also there is another article by simon ,that I came across last week ,Titled SUMMER OF THE TIGER it gives his observations of a summer camp by G E M Sensei ,interested?
cont,
The bulk of my questions related to the origins of various styles of Wu Shu,their similarities and compatability to each other,and the verification of certain facts which we in the western world,had heard time and time again but have never been in the position to confirm for ourselves.Being in China and talking with Chinese Wu Shu masters I considered this the ideal opportunity to clarify a few conflicting matters of which many have been swimming around in my head for a number of years.
Some of the questions I asked were answered by the corresponding specialist whilst others caused a few raised voices followed inevitably by some heated arguments.
Somehow it seemed rather comical seeing a roomful of Wu Shu Masters shouting at each .And sometimes they would even leave their seats!Many of my questions were answered informatively whilst others I was told were still causing contraversial argument within the academic circle.
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
Thanks for posting that information.Also there is another article by simon ,that I came across last week ,Titled SUMMER OF THE TIGER it gives his observations of a summer camp by G E M Sensei ,interested?
cont,
The bulk of my questions related to the origins of various styles of Wu Shu,their similarities and compatability to each other,and the verification of certain facts which we in the western world,had heard time and time again but have never been in the position to confirm for ourselves.Being in China and talking with Chinese Wu Shu masters I considered this the ideal opportunity to clarify a few conflicting matters of which many have been swimming around in my head for a number of years.
Some of the questions I asked were answered by the corresponding specialist whilst others caused a few raised voices followed inevitably by some heated arguments.
Somehow it seemed rather comical seeing a roomful of Wu Shu Masters shouting at each .And sometimes they would even leave their seats!Many of my questions were answered informatively whilst others I was told were still causing contraversial argument within the academic circle.
max ainley
------------------
max ainley
shu shi wa's nephew???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maxwell ainley:
Also there is another article by simon ,that I came across last week ,Titled SUMMER OF THE TIGER it gives his observations of a summer camp by G E M Sensei ,interested?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Max
I was at that camp and found Simon a very informed MA to say the least, I for one would very much like to veiw that article
Also there is another article by simon ,that I came across last week ,Titled SUMMER OF THE TIGER it gives his observations of a summer camp by G E M Sensei ,interested?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Max
I was at that camp and found Simon a very informed MA to say the least, I for one would very much like to veiw that article
