why do I see more style bashing?

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:37 am

Stryke wrote:You continually confuse the student as the vehicle of the style

when in reality the style is the vehicle of the student .

it`s the individuals that win , and the rest of the (insert style) wannabies will ride on there coatails . Or burn them from the sidelines .

all competitors deserve respect , to label them as not doing true karate , what is that ? , will it make others weaker if they feel there worshipped styles not infallible , to loose makes it bad style x ?

maybe just a better opponent , a bad day , a rapid learning curve .

I fail to see why you are reading so much into what amounts to me sitting in front of my TV about 15 years ago and being surprised/disappointed by the performance of a "top" karateka from Japan.

This was Karate’s big chance we all thought—and I can assure you I wasn't the only one who was very disappointed that night.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:49 am

Just an observation Jim

just dont think you can equate performance solely with the style they practice .

not really reading anything into it .

just always have been amused by those who label competitors , usually they arent competitors .

but thats not in reference to you .

It`s more of this style vs style mentality , it`s naive

it was two men not two styles dukeing it out .

just an observation .

JimHawkins · Post by **JimHawkins** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:57 am

Stryke wrote:Just an observation Jim

just dont think you can equate performance solely with the style they practice .

Let's see if I can make it clearer..

Its circa 1990 or there about..

It was

KARATE FROM JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VS

yes you guessed it...

BRAZIALIAN JUJITSU

NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This was a defining moment for many.. It was STYLE vs STYLE night on this amazing new thing called the UFC, which had all of the martial arts world on the edge of our collective seats..

I was sharing my personal feelings regarding the match like I would if we were sitting in a pub.. I am sorry if I was somehow PC incorrect in doing so.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:08 am

Hey Jim nothing in it , not meaning to criticise you or have you take it that way

yeah it was all hyped style vs style stuff back then .

If we were in the pub I still would of said it`s a flawed presumption IMHO

and my money would still be on the pure BJJ guy vs the pure karate stylist anyhow

just chill man , is all good ....

a.f. · Post by **a.f.** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:12 am

I think Jim does raise a good point. Why send a karateka that apparently wasn't as prepared as he should have been (not making any judgements about him) when there are so many phenomenal karateka with a wide base of knowledge (more than just the stereotypical punching and kicking) to choose from? I bet some of them would have done very well in the octagon.

Like Jim, I am sad when a person representing ANY style who is apparently one of the best gets annihilated by another style.

a.f. · Post by **a.f.** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:38 pm

I notice that the styles that have had success in competition usually produce more style-bashers than other styles.

For instance, from a MT website:

Fighters are able to more effectively use their elbows, knees, feet and fists than in other martial arts.

You know, if you say something enough times, people will start to believe it no matter how crazy it is. Hell, I've heard statements like the above one from various martial arts so many times even I am wavering.

Like I said, say something enough times and folks start to believe. Sometimes they say it subtly so they can't tell it's the same. Anyway, say something enough times and people start to believe it.

a.f. · Post by **a.f.** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:03 pm

Well, what do you know!

Karate DOES work!

TOKYO, November 19, 2005 -- Dutch fighter Semmy Schilt turned aside three challengers to win the K-1 World Grand Prix '05 Final at the Tokyo Dome tonight. The 32 year-old Seidokaikan Karate fighter recorded a convincing unanimous decision in his first bout against Ray Sefo, and went on to KO Defending Champ Remy Bonjasky in the semis, then Glaube Feitosa in the final to emerge triumphant.

Schilt's karate background affords him superior speed and stamina -- he won the WGP in Paris this May, and coming into today's Final he was widely regarded as the best of K-1's big fighters (height 212cm/6'11"; weight 121kg/267lbs). Schilt becomes the fourth Dutchman to win the K-1 World GP, and the first Karate fighter to wear the crown since the late great Andy Hug in 1996. Along with fightsport's most prestigious Championship, Schilt picks up US$400,000 in prize money.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:34 pm

Seizan

Your posts are always appreciated, and the facts were helpful. Keep them coming. And keep working on that book or books.

I just happen to see an irony in how the facts about that specific dojo's lineage fit the common perceptions (or perhaps misconceptions) of what the Wakayama film means about "old Uechi." I thought I saw the twinkle in your eye, so to speak. Perhaps you've missed some of the discussions. No matter...

I find humor in life; it's my Irish nature. I've always felt we all should let the facts speak, and never take life or ourselves too seriously.

My best to you and yours, as always.

- Bill

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:44 pm

If they really wanted to test style vs style they would have brought in guys like benny the jet or one of his students.

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:04 pm

a.f. wrote:I notice that the styles that have had success in competition usually produce more style-bashers than other styles.

I've seen/heard PLENTY of style bashing from Karateka, Aikidoka, Kung Fu practitioners, and all sorts of other "non-competitive" styles. It's human nature, and no more prevelant in competitively successful arts than in those that either don't compete, or that don't succeed in competition.

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:21 pm

yeah but competive fighters are more vocal.

Cant blame them though.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:57 am

You're going to have a difficult time backing that statement up with facts.

Most of the good fighters I see speak with their bodies. That's all that matters. Furthermore exuding confidence - which any competitive fighter needs to do - doesn't qualify as style bashing.

- Bill

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:01 am

Bill Glasheen wrote:You're going to have a difficult time backing that statement up with facts.

Most of the good fighters I see speak with their bodies. That's all that matters. Furthermore exuding confidence - which any competitive fighter needs to do - doesn't qualify as style bashing.

- Bill

www.sherdog.com (go to the forum)

www.bullshido.com (go to the forum)

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:05 am

Where's your control group? Compared to what?

Pride in one's style also isn't style bashing. It's just pride in one's style.

Only the Yankees get reliably and consistently bashed vis-a-vis the competition. And that's because they ******!

- Bill

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:10 am

Search wing-chun on bullshido

and search any TMA on sherdog.

That said, alot of people on bullshido are pretty cool about it but sometimes they too fall into WAY too much pride into what they do.

For instance, talking about kata opens up a huge can of worms over there.

Bullshido is one of the better martial arts forums however, all politics are out in the open and the staff know what they are talking about half the time.