What are advanced techniques in your art of choice?

[MikeK]

I still don't know what folks mean by an "Advanced technique"..............

C'mon Ray, it's obvious. Just kidding. What is obvious is that what it is depends on the person or style and why the title of the thread. Some folks don't even believe they exists, though some of those guys do believe in basics which implies that there are levels past basics. Some guys like the one I train with really doesn't believe in basic, advanced, simple, complex or even nasty techniques but just techniques that are what they are.

[JimHawkins]

Interesting idea about doubt, but I would say that's a part of thinking about the move rather than thinking about taking the other guy out.

Well in this case I refer to unconscious 'doubt' the kind that knows what you got and has decided it's not enough... This IMO can cause 'strange responses' to happen--the primal flail, the freeze, etc.

I hear you, but every movement has more than one step or beats.

Well not all..

Still, from what I see some moves have sequential parts (where step A has to happen before step B, etc) other kinds of moves have parts, but these parts can and should be executed all at once. Big difference.. Those moves that have multiple steps, and always seem to be trained against non resisting partners in my book are lower percentile moves.

Southern CMA, especially emphasize moves that happen, as I said, with sudden explosiveness, such that all the moves happen like a sneeze.. If you blink you might miss it.

[MikeK]

Jim, I agree with 99% of what you just wrote, though many times step A has to happen before step B. Where that breaks down is if the interval of time between the two becomes significant or if step A and B are so tied together that if step A fails you have nowhere to go.

[JimHawkins]

Jim, I agree with 99% of what you just wrote, though many times step A has to happen before step B. Where that breaks down is if the interval of time between the two becomes significant or if step A and B are so tied together that if step A fails you have nowhere to go.

Yeah.... I'm not saying something can't work... Where something is technique X... It depends on so many things..

What I am trying to address is the sequential technique, especially as seen in some TMA where A must happen before B, must happen before C and so on..

One problem as you mentioned is the time between A and B, etc.. The issue I have with this stuff is that the defender has a number of steps to perform, say A then B at least.. In almost all cases that I have seen in training the attacker simply *waits* for the defender to move through these steps.. In the real world the attacker will already be resisting, or as we say changing once you get into the first step or after say a quarter second. Training where there is some kind of freeze up of action is problematic IMO.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with working against no resistance when you are just starting out, but beyond that it does not represent alive resistance and continuity, meaning nothing stays, not the attacker, not the defender, everything is in constant motion, change and resistance.. When we take and isolate a technique alone in a vacuum the way some TMA does it totally changes the equation of reality, making a false reality, and THAT is where the technique will work, but often not in real reality.

Continuity in this sense is a key CMA attribute..

The river never ceases..

[jorvik]

The fact that one has to do a couple of techniques to complete a move doesn't make it advanced or even particularly complex or complicated, but all the moves in the sequence must be effective in their own right.
I think the idea of an advanced technique conjurs up visions of a complex set of movements which are all dependent on the previous one to be effective.such as in Aikido, but this is only how the Aikido appears and certainly not how it should be.
On another note though there are (so called)classical martial arts which say that you must be in a certain stance and punch in a certain manner to be effective, when karate is done like that it becomes too complex ( too advanced if you like )............and will fail under streetfight conditions

[MikeK]

Bounce.

One more from the past. Sometimes it's interesting to look back.