I have been following this thread with great interest.
Lee Darrow wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
For my money, it's the people who are willing to say, "Let's see what happens when..." and do their best to design a study that eliminates other causal factors that have the right of it.
No egos on the line, no personalities involved, just science.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That sums it up for me.
As well as,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
This is an exploration into the how and why of a set of phenomena that fascinate many people. I would strongly urge all involved to approach it with the wide open eyes of a child and see what there is to see, setting preconceptions and presuppositions aside, at least for that moment. For such is the true mind set of an experimenter, IMPO.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Some of us have made use of one paradigm that makes sense to our non-scientifically trained minds. We have achieved some reasonable results (to those same minds). Let's get beyond the "i'm right and your an a&&h*le!" mentality and get some more definition to this stuff. Let's play!
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
Birdbrained ideas
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Ted Dinwiddie
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GSantaniello
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- Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
Birdbrained ideas
To all,
Having met Evan at "Summer Camp" several years ago, i was impressed with what i was introduced to. Following that i had attented a seminar "Meeting of The Master's sponsered by Evan Pantazi. I then persued to travel one hour each way to N. Andover to study "Kyusho" with him once a week for two years for two classes a night.
I have seen some demonstrations where K.O.'s were efective. I had also seen several that were not. One thing that i had learned that the angle, the penetration, and corect application was key in geting results.
Will it work all the time on everyone ? No ! oes tha mean that there is absolutly no validity to it's claim ? NO !
However, i would speak regarding the no touch knockouts as i have not enough experience and or knowledge in that area.
But, as in the "leg shot" earlier referred to, kicking one in the leg without corect angle and penetration using the shin, will not get results.
However, someone knowing "how" to do it correctly wil drop their oponent to the groung on inpact ! As i have done it once and sent another off from a tournament unable to walk. he point is, not all techniques and claims will get results 100 % of the time regardless of who is doing it.
Also, i have met some who do not respond to wrist locks, pain and/or "Kyusho strikes.
I have had it tried on me with "belief" tha i would go out, i did not. I aplied it also on another whom i was sure would work, it did not.
For "some" power of sugestion may influence the results as in the placeba effect.
However, testing it at camp i feel will only further controversy and debate.Take a Godan of average ability. Put forth several equal of rank and training and have them spar. Will they al have equal ability ? I think not. So as in "Kyusho"
Anyone break cement patio blocks ? I have ? Do we always have equal abilty to break the same amounts ? NO ! I have failed at times on one or two and succeeded at others times on 4 two inch blocks.
The no touch, I question myself. However, i had K.O.'d someone once with a light impact palm heel stike to the temple. It was not in demonstration but in anger and responsive striking.
However, i could not get it to work at Evan's dojo for me.Partly do to "holding Back" and sme lack of confidence in myself and experience. Yet, "I" have not gone out do to "suggestion" nor have any of my partners. ot to say that it is not a certan % of influence on some occassion.
Should all Uechi practitioners be capable of breaking 2 x 4's if someone who can just show them how ? I think not.
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Gary S.
Having met Evan at "Summer Camp" several years ago, i was impressed with what i was introduced to. Following that i had attented a seminar "Meeting of The Master's sponsered by Evan Pantazi. I then persued to travel one hour each way to N. Andover to study "Kyusho" with him once a week for two years for two classes a night.
I have seen some demonstrations where K.O.'s were efective. I had also seen several that were not. One thing that i had learned that the angle, the penetration, and corect application was key in geting results.
Will it work all the time on everyone ? No ! oes tha mean that there is absolutly no validity to it's claim ? NO !
However, i would speak regarding the no touch knockouts as i have not enough experience and or knowledge in that area.
But, as in the "leg shot" earlier referred to, kicking one in the leg without corect angle and penetration using the shin, will not get results.
However, someone knowing "how" to do it correctly wil drop their oponent to the groung on inpact ! As i have done it once and sent another off from a tournament unable to walk. he point is, not all techniques and claims will get results 100 % of the time regardless of who is doing it.
Also, i have met some who do not respond to wrist locks, pain and/or "Kyusho strikes.
I have had it tried on me with "belief" tha i would go out, i did not. I aplied it also on another whom i was sure would work, it did not.
For "some" power of sugestion may influence the results as in the placeba effect.
However, testing it at camp i feel will only further controversy and debate.Take a Godan of average ability. Put forth several equal of rank and training and have them spar. Will they al have equal ability ? I think not. So as in "Kyusho"
Anyone break cement patio blocks ? I have ? Do we always have equal abilty to break the same amounts ? NO ! I have failed at times on one or two and succeeded at others times on 4 two inch blocks.
The no touch, I question myself. However, i had K.O.'d someone once with a light impact palm heel stike to the temple. It was not in demonstration but in anger and responsive striking.
However, i could not get it to work at Evan's dojo for me.Partly do to "holding Back" and sme lack of confidence in myself and experience. Yet, "I" have not gone out do to "suggestion" nor have any of my partners. ot to say that it is not a certan % of influence on some occassion.
Should all Uechi practitioners be capable of breaking 2 x 4's if someone who can just show them how ? I think not.
------------------
Gary S.
Birdbrained ideas
The research isn't there to decide whether kyusho works or doesn't. It's an attempt to figure out why people get KO'd, and to further it's application in combat.
As we saw with the empty force, things that look effective can amount to nothing.
All martial artists know their stuff doesn't always work, and that some are better than others. We also know parts of many martial arts are just dumb, and we try to figure out which parts of Uechi meet that definition (seisan jump?).
Some from the kyusho side have cast this as a cosmic battle, suggesting that Uechi people are out to get them and they have the real goods. In discussion, unsupported accusations and claims are made, requests for information are refused, and skeptics / scientists are kicked out of discussions at times OR, where that is impossible, the kyusho traditionalists have kicked themselves out of discussions. See above.
The reality is that some Uechi people are trying to study and further kyusho in a scientific manner. There's no conflict necessary.
I have Evan's tapes on kyusho from Uechi kata. He takes our drills and finds his own meaning in them. Some I find silly and some I find very intriguing. But it never crossed my mind to view it as an attack on Uechi, just a different approach.
So it is with our approach to kyusho. People have shown traditional uechi to Evan (and whomever else will listen) and listened respectfully to his interpretations and learned from them, even though they were radically different.
It'd be nice if he'd do the same now that we'd like to construct our take on kyusho. Instead we're getting nothing but resistance which essentially says the stuff is patented and privileged and he won't share it or listen to our thoughts on it.
The two arts have much to offer each other. We are trying our best to raise the speed limit on this TWO WAY street. Not everyone is interested. The efforts from our side will no doubt carry on without them.
As we saw with the empty force, things that look effective can amount to nothing.
All martial artists know their stuff doesn't always work, and that some are better than others. We also know parts of many martial arts are just dumb, and we try to figure out which parts of Uechi meet that definition (seisan jump?).
Some from the kyusho side have cast this as a cosmic battle, suggesting that Uechi people are out to get them and they have the real goods. In discussion, unsupported accusations and claims are made, requests for information are refused, and skeptics / scientists are kicked out of discussions at times OR, where that is impossible, the kyusho traditionalists have kicked themselves out of discussions. See above.
The reality is that some Uechi people are trying to study and further kyusho in a scientific manner. There's no conflict necessary.
I have Evan's tapes on kyusho from Uechi kata. He takes our drills and finds his own meaning in them. Some I find silly and some I find very intriguing. But it never crossed my mind to view it as an attack on Uechi, just a different approach.
So it is with our approach to kyusho. People have shown traditional uechi to Evan (and whomever else will listen) and listened respectfully to his interpretations and learned from them, even though they were radically different.
It'd be nice if he'd do the same now that we'd like to construct our take on kyusho. Instead we're getting nothing but resistance which essentially says the stuff is patented and privileged and he won't share it or listen to our thoughts on it.
The two arts have much to offer each other. We are trying our best to raise the speed limit on this TWO WAY street. Not everyone is interested. The efforts from our side will no doubt carry on without them.
