Do any of you teachers use board breaking as part of testing or curriculum?
What are your views on its value?
TG
Board breaking
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Akil Todd Harvey
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Boards dont hit back........But i still break them from time to time, anyway........
I broke a 6 foot dowl (1 3/4") over my arm once, with about 200 -300 people watching. Did not work the first time, so I had em hit me again. Second time was a charm; the 2nd time, the dowel broke. And then I did a few breaks with kicks and wrist strikes, despite whatever pain I had. Kind of made me wish I had practiced this as I basicly gave myself a hairline fracture in front of all those folks.....
Next day I went to the hospital and they wanted to put a cast on it (after x-rays, etc). They said it had a hairline fracture. I told em I was pretty sure that was the case and that I did not want a cast........What did they say? Let's take another x-ray. I said what would be the point, I dont dispute the fact that the arm is probably broken, I simply dont want a cast.......
Most interested in what others have to say........ATH
I broke a 6 foot dowl (1 3/4") over my arm once, with about 200 -300 people watching. Did not work the first time, so I had em hit me again. Second time was a charm; the 2nd time, the dowel broke. And then I did a few breaks with kicks and wrist strikes, despite whatever pain I had. Kind of made me wish I had practiced this as I basicly gave myself a hairline fracture in front of all those folks.....
Next day I went to the hospital and they wanted to put a cast on it (after x-rays, etc). They said it had a hairline fracture. I told em I was pretty sure that was the case and that I did not want a cast........What did they say? Let's take another x-ray. I said what would be the point, I dont dispute the fact that the arm is probably broken, I simply dont want a cast.......
Most interested in what others have to say........ATH
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
We matured out of our breaking phase (for the purposes you have mentioned) in the mid-80's. Breaking included bricks, cement slabs and boards. I believe the last breaking we did was in 1988 when a number of teenage students were extremely impressed by a demo they saw. I mentioned that anyone of them could perform most of the breaking techniques. One of our white-belts volunteered to try to break two 1 inch cement slabs-they broke. And the impressions of the breaking demo were somewhat deflated and we could return to the essential elements of martial arts.
So we don't use breaking as a test item or part of our study.
However, I would not discount some of the skilled breaking I have seen. That has included ball bats and 2 x 4's (real 2 x 4's). I also saw Mas Oyama break a stone-I was close it was no joke. It wais amazing! The lesson is probably not to get hit and if you are going to defend yourself with a 2 x 4 against a Master Breaker- don't hit him over the forearm or the shin.....
But in general I think breaking creates a false sense of confidence and skill as well as the real possibility of injury (cited in other posts). I suppose I'd rather have my students box and take a few good educational-(bell-ringing) hits than include breaking as part of our training. And, to occassionally do braking after appropriate instruction is probably good just to keep a slight psychological edge for students who need to fill a spiritual or confidence vacuum.
I do include breaking 2 to 4, 1 inch pine boards in our women's self defense classes (these are unskilled civilians).They use forearms, hammer fists or elbows. The goal is to convey confidence and provide an edge that will hopefully permit a person under attack to deal with a violent opponent such that they can neutralize the threat, attacking the core of their opponent's being: physical, psychological and spiritual. In my opinion, that is the value, I suppose if that is the goal including breaking in an early testing would have value.
I am not certain this answer is useful....
Ron Klein
So we don't use breaking as a test item or part of our study.
However, I would not discount some of the skilled breaking I have seen. That has included ball bats and 2 x 4's (real 2 x 4's). I also saw Mas Oyama break a stone-I was close it was no joke. It wais amazing! The lesson is probably not to get hit and if you are going to defend yourself with a 2 x 4 against a Master Breaker- don't hit him over the forearm or the shin.....
But in general I think breaking creates a false sense of confidence and skill as well as the real possibility of injury (cited in other posts). I suppose I'd rather have my students box and take a few good educational-(bell-ringing) hits than include breaking as part of our training. And, to occassionally do braking after appropriate instruction is probably good just to keep a slight psychological edge for students who need to fill a spiritual or confidence vacuum.
I do include breaking 2 to 4, 1 inch pine boards in our women's self defense classes (these are unskilled civilians).They use forearms, hammer fists or elbows. The goal is to convey confidence and provide an edge that will hopefully permit a person under attack to deal with a violent opponent such that they can neutralize the threat, attacking the core of their opponent's being: physical, psychological and spiritual. In my opinion, that is the value, I suppose if that is the goal including breaking in an early testing would have value.
I am not certain this answer is useful....
Ron Klein
“Dignitus, virtus et reverentia.”
My TSD school used breaking for tests. It was only one board though. If you can break one, you can break 20. I thought it was appropriate because it shows that you've learned a given technique properly without hurting yourself smashing through a ball bat. It hurts my brain to see people punching with the wrist bent.
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gmattson
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Well... some breaking can be easier than other...
The most impressive break I ever saw without trickery was in Taiwan in the 60s. There were many Chinese street vendors selling medicine (health drinks) using their skills as a way to attract attention. One broke smooth river stones with a single finger strike! He let me examine the stone and his finger. There was no trick involved. His finger was like a steel spike and the stone was solid and about the size of small potato. He would hold the stone in the palm of one hand and stike the stone's center with that finger! Very impressive.
Many larger stone breaks are tricks. The stone breaks Oyama made and all others I've seen were performed by holding the stone in one hand, with the stone slightly raised off a solid surface. When hit, the stone edge will break as it hits the solid surface. A nice break, but still a trick.
Many larger stone breaks are tricks. The stone breaks Oyama made and all others I've seen were performed by holding the stone in one hand, with the stone slightly raised off a solid surface. When hit, the stone edge will break as it hits the solid surface. A nice break, but still a trick.
GEM
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
"Do or do not. there is no try!"
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Akil Todd Harvey
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Not trying to be ornery here folks, just going of on a minor rant about breaking stuff
My trick was to use an old dowel not a new medlewood cane or some mahogany stick........
Then there are the pine board breaks....try some other type of wood and see what breaks, the wood or my hand??????
It has been a decade or more since I decided to attack defenseless wood, so maybe my recollections are off..............but as far as I camn tell, there is always some sort of trick........
When I used to work at the Geology dept at UMass, I was told of a story back in some war in which the army corp of engineers was having tremendous difficulty breaking apart a massive boulder that was blocking the progress of some critical road being built. To break this particvular boulder, they brought in one of their top specialists (after trying to blast it out of the way several times without success)........This old guy comes along, spends a few minutes making observations of seems, structure, etc and chooses a precise location for the last charge that eventually breaks it up.......
For some it is a trick, for others it is a matter of science, art, trial and error, intuition, and lots of practice.......
Akil
My trick was to use an old dowel not a new medlewood cane or some mahogany stick........
Then there are the pine board breaks....try some other type of wood and see what breaks, the wood or my hand??????
It has been a decade or more since I decided to attack defenseless wood, so maybe my recollections are off..............but as far as I camn tell, there is always some sort of trick........
When I used to work at the Geology dept at UMass, I was told of a story back in some war in which the army corp of engineers was having tremendous difficulty breaking apart a massive boulder that was blocking the progress of some critical road being built. To break this particvular boulder, they brought in one of their top specialists (after trying to blast it out of the way several times without success)........This old guy comes along, spends a few minutes making observations of seems, structure, etc and chooses a precise location for the last charge that eventually breaks it up.......
For some it is a trick, for others it is a matter of science, art, trial and error, intuition, and lots of practice.......
Akil
Seek knowledge from cradle to grave
"Anyway, what are "tricks" y'all are mentioning?"
If you put spacers between boards, even a scrawny white belt can blast through 10 boards. Pine boards are really soft. Some people actually bake the boards to make sure they're super dry. Concrete slabs look impressive but will often break before you even hit them because they're so brittle, etc.
If you put spacers between boards, even a scrawny white belt can blast through 10 boards. Pine boards are really soft. Some people actually bake the boards to make sure they're super dry. Concrete slabs look impressive but will often break before you even hit them because they're so brittle, etc.
[Board] Breaking is an Important Martial Arts Component.
There are certain ma skills that can be learned best thru board breaking, certainly an important totem, if not the Thunderbird. Maybe breaking could be considered as the "low-man" as it establishes a young person's confidence in himself -- and in others. The others being the ones who taught him.
There are a number of other important attributes attached to breaking done in moderation, but I saw the above help mold many into assertiveness who would have otherwise been lesser.
BTW, seeing there are war stories above, I'll relate that I had my first board-breaking lessons when I was about 4, and continued 'till 7. I used to help my grandpa prepare wood for the winter on his farm in those days. One of the things he taught me, and I did many times over, was how to prepare the stove's kindling by breaking the small ones over the knee. There is a snap to to master, and if done right ribs can snap like the twigs, and nuts can crack. Fast forward to many years later into the ma, aka 15 years of TKD, and I'll tell you that breaking with the hand or the foot is exactly the same. Up to a point, breaking will improve the velocity of the limb, the judgement of the exact point of impact, the angle of attack, the knowledge and ability of how deep to go through for maximum penetration, etc. I say to a point because there will be a point that you have reached in your training which will be your optimum. When that happens, enjoy it and ride it for as long as you can because it won't get much better.
As an afterthought, I wonder if nuns have a hard time breaking bad habits?
There are certain ma skills that can be learned best thru board breaking, certainly an important totem, if not the Thunderbird. Maybe breaking could be considered as the "low-man" as it establishes a young person's confidence in himself -- and in others. The others being the ones who taught him.
There are a number of other important attributes attached to breaking done in moderation, but I saw the above help mold many into assertiveness who would have otherwise been lesser.
BTW, seeing there are war stories above, I'll relate that I had my first board-breaking lessons when I was about 4, and continued 'till 7. I used to help my grandpa prepare wood for the winter on his farm in those days. One of the things he taught me, and I did many times over, was how to prepare the stove's kindling by breaking the small ones over the knee. There is a snap to to master, and if done right ribs can snap like the twigs, and nuts can crack. Fast forward to many years later into the ma, aka 15 years of TKD, and I'll tell you that breaking with the hand or the foot is exactly the same. Up to a point, breaking will improve the velocity of the limb, the judgement of the exact point of impact, the angle of attack, the knowledge and ability of how deep to go through for maximum penetration, etc. I say to a point because there will be a point that you have reached in your training which will be your optimum. When that happens, enjoy it and ride it for as long as you can because it won't get much better.
As an afterthought, I wonder if nuns have a hard time breaking bad habits?
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
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f.Channell
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For Uechi breaking at it's finest I recommend:
http://karateworld.safeshopper.com/14/35.htm?179
The 33rd Anniversary tape has many of Okinawa's finest doing some no nonsense breaks.
The best breaking I ever saw was at Camp 90 put on by Buzz Durkin Sensei.
There was no local lumberyard so the wood was purchased from a local sawmill.
The 2X4's were full 2X4's green, wet and possible hardwood.
I carried them on the field myself. I didn't believe they could be broken.
Yonamine Sensei broke them like kindling.
Maemiya Sensei broke 3 bats in a row. Two roundhouse kicks and the last one being a shuto.
Steve Banchick Sensei I believe still has them on display at his Dojo in Stoughton Mass. As well as the videotapes.
One of the truly most memorable experiences of my training, if not my life, were watching those breaks.
F.
http://karateworld.safeshopper.com/14/35.htm?179
The 33rd Anniversary tape has many of Okinawa's finest doing some no nonsense breaks.
The best breaking I ever saw was at Camp 90 put on by Buzz Durkin Sensei.
There was no local lumberyard so the wood was purchased from a local sawmill.
The 2X4's were full 2X4's green, wet and possible hardwood.
I carried them on the field myself. I didn't believe they could be broken.
Yonamine Sensei broke them like kindling.
Maemiya Sensei broke 3 bats in a row. Two roundhouse kicks and the last one being a shuto.
Steve Banchick Sensei I believe still has them on display at his Dojo in Stoughton Mass. As well as the videotapes.
One of the truly most memorable experiences of my training, if not my life, were watching those breaks.
F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
I riled up a lot of folks on another forum with my comments
ON BREAKING. Doing breaking is like doing high kicks, nice to be able to do them and do them well. Not everyone can do them and most especially beyond certain limits, usually self-imposed. For some, breaking is not important and for others it is. One's motives are important in such. Showmanship is just that and can be most entertaining. Too many people do it for the wrong reasons, of course,just to impress and not to entertain. Others do it to gratify their egos,to show off, and to act as sort of a challenge: look what I can do, can you do it? Others approach breaking in a more rational,scientific manner, using physics and other things to convey principles. From one extreme to another, breaking has its place. There are many dangerous breaks and not all breaks are faked or trickery as some persons continue to claim! Actually, nearly everyone can break a pine board that is not too thick and when it is placed properly so they can safely do so,after being guided and shown how to do it. Mental and physical and emotional preparation are important for breaking and for nearly all martial arts. You can get lopsided by emphasizing one of them over the other or ignoring one or two,etc. That's my take on it. Breaking in itself doesn't really confer anything magical to you anymore than being able to twist up into exotic contortions found in yoga does. It's nice to do but not necessary. 
Oh,yes, I nearly forgot.......
It's fun to break coconuts and they are fairly cheap to obtain. Of course, you have to know how to do it. In the Philippines where I resided for a number of years, they were plentiful. That's where I learned how, of course. Halford at http://arnis.homestead.com
