After a session last night with a black belt who just plain wasn't following instructions and apparently does this often, I feel compelled to ask:
What do you do about difficult/hazardous people in the dojo? When they rank (far) higher? When they rank lower?
Seems every dojo attracts at least one of these from time to time. Other than modeling good behavior and/or asking the person to go "slow" with you, is there anything that can be done?
Dealing with Difficult People -- in the Dojo
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Bill Glasheen
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This depends...
Let me start by saying that good preparation, organization, structure, and etiquette in the dojo can solve 90% of this. If you have written rules and a dojo etiquette that everyone must sign before they start the first class, then this often gets everyone on the right foot. I did this when teaching very large classes at a University. Usually the act of having them read and sign such a document prevents bad behavior. But when it doesn't at least you have a document to wave in their face when they get out of control. Enforcement then is rarely questioned.
As a student though suffering under a more advanced jerk, it can be more difficult. If someone is simply beating the snot out of you without cause, well it can be quite difficult. Again I find that in a good dojo, this kind of behavior eventually disappears even when the instructor doesn't witness it. The word gets around in the dojo, and what goes around comes around...
State your case. If the person doesn't cooperate and you are in charge, kick their butts out. You don't need people like this. As they say, the best way to scare 100 monkeys is to shoot one of them. If the person doesn't cooperate and you are the junior, then bow out. Explain to your instructor later on - if asked. Be polite, respectful, but firm. Remember that in the end, you must CYA.
And... Remember those days when you become more advanced. One day you just might take on the role of dojo "enforcer" when someone else is being taken advantage of.
Tough topic, but one that must be dealt with head on.
- Bill
Let me start by saying that good preparation, organization, structure, and etiquette in the dojo can solve 90% of this. If you have written rules and a dojo etiquette that everyone must sign before they start the first class, then this often gets everyone on the right foot. I did this when teaching very large classes at a University. Usually the act of having them read and sign such a document prevents bad behavior. But when it doesn't at least you have a document to wave in their face when they get out of control. Enforcement then is rarely questioned.
As a student though suffering under a more advanced jerk, it can be more difficult. If someone is simply beating the snot out of you without cause, well it can be quite difficult. Again I find that in a good dojo, this kind of behavior eventually disappears even when the instructor doesn't witness it. The word gets around in the dojo, and what goes around comes around...
State your case. If the person doesn't cooperate and you are in charge, kick their butts out. You don't need people like this. As they say, the best way to scare 100 monkeys is to shoot one of them. If the person doesn't cooperate and you are the junior, then bow out. Explain to your instructor later on - if asked. Be polite, respectful, but firm. Remember that in the end, you must CYA.
And... Remember those days when you become more advanced. One day you just might take on the role of dojo "enforcer" when someone else is being taken advantage of.
Tough topic, but one that must be dealt with head on.
- Bill
Bill has it right on. If your instructor insists (this happened to me) that you practice regardless of the amount of abuse heaped on you then you have another issue. Hopefully you have a good instructor who's on top of things and this won't happen. Often an instructor waits for something obvious like someone bowing out before he'll talk to the bully. As long as everyone keeps a face of tolerance then the instructor may view it as a situation where interference isn't necessary.
Kami
Kami
One seed, many lives.
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Stryke
You dont have to tolerate anything because of rank , address it politley yourself with the individual , then if necessary take it to the teacher/sensei , and if that fails you can refuse to work with them or leave .
Rank means nothing in regards to safety , it`s a measure of tenure and training , and not to be respected if it`s being abused or they show none of the characteristics that should go along with such rank .
Rank means nothing in regards to safety , it`s a measure of tenure and training , and not to be respected if it`s being abused or they show none of the characteristics that should go along with such rank .
As a junior rank, I agree with the above answers.
It is the responsibility of the senior rank in any drill to see that any junior partner is not injured, especially to "make a point."
Juniors have enough on their plate without worrying about some GB/BB/BkB partner toying with them for their own gratification.
I have seen shining examples of "correct" senior attitude, and I aspire to emulate them.
I've seen shining examples of senior jerks as well, and aspire to never be one of them. (If they only knew how "influential" they were...!)
Respect, once lost, is very hard to recover.
And without respect, no learning can take place.
NM
It is the responsibility of the senior rank in any drill to see that any junior partner is not injured, especially to "make a point."
Juniors have enough on their plate without worrying about some GB/BB/BkB partner toying with them for their own gratification.
I have seen shining examples of "correct" senior attitude, and I aspire to emulate them.
I've seen shining examples of senior jerks as well, and aspire to never be one of them. (If they only knew how "influential" they were...!)
Respect, once lost, is very hard to recover.
And without respect, no learning can take place.
NM
Difficult Students
Hello All:
Reading this topic brings back a memory. Many years ago while working out in one of George Mattson's advanced classes at the old Hancock dojo. There was this one visiting black belt from another Uechi dojo. He was very big and muscular. The body building type physique. He was pretty intimidating. We were working on dan kumite. We were changing partners every few minutes. Every one that this guy worked with, he hurt them. He would not diplay any type of control, at all. He was asked many times to please tone it down. However, he would not. All I remember from that class is. George said again to change partnes. While we were changing partners. George was looking at Bobby Campbell,,, Bobby was looking back at George. Then Bobby walked up to the guy and said.. I would like to please be your partner. We started up again. The next thing I knew was. Bobby kicked the guy so hard with a front kick. The guy could not block the kick, even with his advanced strength. The kick went right through, and caught the guy in the mid section and he went flying back about 6 feet into the wall. He hit the wall so hard, all the weapons fell off the wall, and one of the mirrors cracked. When the guy rejoined the class again. About 15 minutes later. He was a different person.
Some people have to learn the hard way....
Take care - Jay
Reading this topic brings back a memory. Many years ago while working out in one of George Mattson's advanced classes at the old Hancock dojo. There was this one visiting black belt from another Uechi dojo. He was very big and muscular. The body building type physique. He was pretty intimidating. We were working on dan kumite. We were changing partners every few minutes. Every one that this guy worked with, he hurt them. He would not diplay any type of control, at all. He was asked many times to please tone it down. However, he would not. All I remember from that class is. George said again to change partnes. While we were changing partners. George was looking at Bobby Campbell,,, Bobby was looking back at George. Then Bobby walked up to the guy and said.. I would like to please be your partner. We started up again. The next thing I knew was. Bobby kicked the guy so hard with a front kick. The guy could not block the kick, even with his advanced strength. The kick went right through, and caught the guy in the mid section and he went flying back about 6 feet into the wall. He hit the wall so hard, all the weapons fell off the wall, and one of the mirrors cracked. When the guy rejoined the class again. About 15 minutes later. He was a different person.
Some people have to learn the hard way....
Take care - Jay
Jay Sal
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
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Spitkicker
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Rank means nothing; you don't need to feel intimidated by anyone, especially one who has more experience than you and wears a higher belt.
Tell them to tone it down or stop.
If they don't....well they should be shown the door.
Where was the instructor during this time when the student was doing his own thing?
Tell them to tone it down or stop.
If they don't....well they should be shown the door.
Where was the instructor during this time when the student was doing his own thing?
Everything has been said about this topic that needs to be said, so I I will say something myself!
My own instructor has delt with this simply by ejecting the offending student after a warning or two.
He mentioned that in the OLD old days, things had been handled differently: If the senior-in-charge caught on an abuser it could easily result in someone getting knocked out, or leaving the dojo without their front teeth.
My own instructor has delt with this simply by ejecting the offending student after a warning or two.
He mentioned that in the OLD old days, things had been handled differently: If the senior-in-charge caught on an abuser it could easily result in someone getting knocked out, or leaving the dojo without their front teeth.
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Michael L.E. Court
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- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:20 am
- Location: Kent, WA
- Contact:
One way of perhaps handling this type of/similiar situation:
Communicate to them to be more controlled.
If they continue, humbly 'humble' them and again humbly communicate and make it a point of learning/teaching.
They will either come back for more with a different 'view' of things ... or not come back at all ... and fail to continue there growth ...
Humbly,
Communicate to them to be more controlled.
If they continue, humbly 'humble' them and again humbly communicate and make it a point of learning/teaching.
They will either come back for more with a different 'view' of things ... or not come back at all ... and fail to continue there growth ...
Humbly,
Michael
