I wanted to share a story and I guess a question with the forum..
Over Christmas my sister came to my house and had been telling me about a friends son who was very young and was taking martial arts I believe it was Taekwondo from some Grandmaster something or other I don't remember the name right now.This is not meant to be disrespectful to this person who may be very skilled at teaching the art he teaches for it's purpose. but my sister tells me yeah this guy is a grandmaster and there are only so many grandmasters in the world..I didn't say anything and kind of wanted to chuckle to myself inside.I guess this teacher who may be grandmaster or whatever told the parent of this young person that he was such and such and said this was very rare in the whole world.I think martial arts in general helps young people so I didn't say anything cause if he enjoys it for now that's cool and when he gets older i'm sure he'll learn more about martial arts.But my honest feeling is this guy is someone who may be representing himself to be something maybe a little more rare than the actual truth of the matter.I see most great martial artists even artists like Master Pan and Master Uechi only using the title of master and their skills are widely known and respected.but is it uncommon to be a grandmaster or is this as i suspect maybe a racket type deal? I mean if master Pan and Master Uechi only use the title Master and they are known to be great masters then this guy must be something really special to be a grandmaster or whatever he claims..
thanks
Jeff
Titles.....?
Moderator: Available
Grandmasters Not In Short Supply
WTF TKD commands quite a league of senior-level Grandmasters. They are not so rare there. In that system, the title is awarded by the Kukiwon. ITF TKD and some TSD segments have something similar. However, I did know a young renegade 4th or 5th dan Korean who started his own dojang and called himself a Grandmaster. Senior Grandmasters in the Chicago area threatened to take him to court unlless he quit using that term altogether, so at least there seemed to be some effort to control that title withing that group.
That is what I knew up to about ten years ago. Marketing being what it is, I guess anyone of any style who thinks he can get away with it today can forseeably hang a Grandmaster shingle on his storefront.
That is what I knew up to about ten years ago. Marketing being what it is, I guess anyone of any style who thinks he can get away with it today can forseeably hang a Grandmaster shingle on his storefront.
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
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Stryke
lol thanks guys..
I just wondered I don't know to much about how these ranks are awarded or how people are reffered to in many of these styles and I thank you for the replies.It's just hard to know about some of these titles or whatever today so I wanted to see what the forum had to say cause I hate to see the young guy get ripped off or get taken when he likes the martial arts.It's a selling type world out there so I wanted to make sure he was getting sold on the right things.the whole rare grandmaster thing did seem unlikely to me.Thank you for the information.I guess it's not to hard to hang a sign out and say you're the swami of take-the money-ryu and say you're the inventor of the death touch lol..thanks..http://www.chungmoodoe.com/ by the way have you ever seen this master who claims he can jump off buildings and not be hurt at all just curious as to what you think of this
Jeff
Jeff
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I have mixed feelings about this matter.
On the one hand... I spent the first thirty-something years of my life getting an education I needed to do research, apply for funding to do the same, get academic privileges if I need them, and publish if I do the work. These are sort of minimum necessary credentials.
Some call it a Ph.D.
Then I watch as fly-by-night organizations overuse the term to tack false credentials on the snake oil they are trying to sell.
So there I am in the car yesterday morning taking my son to a basketball game. He is confused. He noted that someone at school called me "Dr. Glasheen." He really was bothered by that. He asked me how I could allow someone to call me that. I told him it was because I had a doctor of philosophy in biomedical engineering. "But you aren't a real doctor, are you?" Sigh... "You are confused, Chad. You are thinking of a medical doctor. I am a doctor of philosophy." Then he asked me how long it took for someone to become an M.D. Then he asked me how long it took for me to get my degree, and what I had to do to get it.
"Oh..."
In any case, I allow someone to call me "Dr. Glasheen" once. Then it is "Bill." Except for chiropractors, who insist on being called "Dr." Then maybe I'll mess with them a bit...
Sigh...
Around a university and in front of students who might need to be kept in line, the word "Dr." gets thrown around a lot. Otherwise we overeducated folk who sometimes think way too much of ourselves rightfully put our pants on one leg at a time.
This is the "title" game in another world. I whip mine out when submitting my curriculum vita to an organization attempting to discern my qualifications for doing this or that. Otheriwse, it is such an overused commodity that it has lost its value. It's OK I guess. The one time it bothers me though is when I see it being used inappropriately by the unscrupulous for financial gain. The net result is to disassociate "the title" from "the achievement."
To me, "Grandmaster" is supposed to mean either the founder of a system or the highest level of achievement within a system. You would think that there would be one in a system. When there are more than one, well...
Another point worth making though is that any martial system can have a "grandmaster." I'm proud to say that one of my own students is "grandmaster" of our very own dodo system. It is a rare, secret and deadly system. Deadly at least to those who practice it. Grandmaster Hirabayashi would be proud some time to demonstrate some of its stances (elephant stance as an example) and even some of the conditioning exercises (for example, groin rubbing and groin pounding). He'll even demonstrate solo sparring exercises where knockouts can be achieved.
But if we tell you too much, we might have to kill you...
- Bill
On the one hand... I spent the first thirty-something years of my life getting an education I needed to do research, apply for funding to do the same, get academic privileges if I need them, and publish if I do the work. These are sort of minimum necessary credentials.
Some call it a Ph.D.
Then I watch as fly-by-night organizations overuse the term to tack false credentials on the snake oil they are trying to sell.
So there I am in the car yesterday morning taking my son to a basketball game. He is confused. He noted that someone at school called me "Dr. Glasheen." He really was bothered by that. He asked me how I could allow someone to call me that. I told him it was because I had a doctor of philosophy in biomedical engineering. "But you aren't a real doctor, are you?" Sigh... "You are confused, Chad. You are thinking of a medical doctor. I am a doctor of philosophy." Then he asked me how long it took for someone to become an M.D. Then he asked me how long it took for me to get my degree, and what I had to do to get it.
"Oh..."
In any case, I allow someone to call me "Dr. Glasheen" once. Then it is "Bill." Except for chiropractors, who insist on being called "Dr." Then maybe I'll mess with them a bit...
Sigh...
Around a university and in front of students who might need to be kept in line, the word "Dr." gets thrown around a lot. Otherwise we overeducated folk who sometimes think way too much of ourselves rightfully put our pants on one leg at a time.
This is the "title" game in another world. I whip mine out when submitting my curriculum vita to an organization attempting to discern my qualifications for doing this or that. Otheriwse, it is such an overused commodity that it has lost its value. It's OK I guess. The one time it bothers me though is when I see it being used inappropriately by the unscrupulous for financial gain. The net result is to disassociate "the title" from "the achievement."
To me, "Grandmaster" is supposed to mean either the founder of a system or the highest level of achievement within a system. You would think that there would be one in a system. When there are more than one, well...
Another point worth making though is that any martial system can have a "grandmaster." I'm proud to say that one of my own students is "grandmaster" of our very own dodo system. It is a rare, secret and deadly system. Deadly at least to those who practice it. Grandmaster Hirabayashi would be proud some time to demonstrate some of its stances (elephant stance as an example) and even some of the conditioning exercises (for example, groin rubbing and groin pounding). He'll even demonstrate solo sparring exercises where knockouts can be achieved.
But if we tell you too much, we might have to kill you...
- Bill
Grandmaster of the Dodo Style?
This is just too funny. Don't think you have shown us that groin conditioning in class, Bill.Another point worth making though is that any martial system can have a "grandmaster." I'm proud to say that one of my own students is "grandmaster" of our very own dodo system. It is a rare, secret and deadly system. Deadly at least to those who practice it. Grandmaster Hirabayashi would be proud some time to demonstrate some of its stances (elephant stance as an example) and even some of the conditioning exercises (for example, groin rubbing and groin pounding). He'll even demonstrate solo sparring exercises where knockouts can be achieved.
But if we tell you too much, we might have to kill you...
Vicki
"Cry in the dojo, laugh in the battlefield"
Titles
Hi All:
Another title I am seeing a lot of martial artists' use these days is - Professor.
A while back I meet a teacher at a tournament who introduced himself to me, and told me he was a 12th dan. When did it go over 10th dan? What did I miss? Also to boot, the guy was only in his early 30's I would guess.
Am I behind the times, or did I miss somthing.
Take care
Another title I am seeing a lot of martial artists' use these days is - Professor.
A while back I meet a teacher at a tournament who introduced himself to me, and told me he was a 12th dan. When did it go over 10th dan? What did I miss? Also to boot, the guy was only in his early 30's I would guess.
Am I behind the times, or did I miss somthing.
Take care
Jay Sal
Semper Fi
Semper Fi
Jay, I read an interview with a well respected Kempo sensei. He was saying he had to self promote himself to something like a 15th degree black belt because all the guys beneath him in rank had promoted themselves to 10th degree black belts. Because they're so over inflated I've stopped being impressed by rank and titles in the martial arts, it's what the guy knows and what he can do that matters.
I was dreaming of the past...
I think he jumped to 15the because there are a lot of 10th degree black belts in kempo. In regards to belt color I know the red and white masters belt is common, but I prefer that to a dozen gold stripes and a extra long belt.
But if grandmaster sounds to hoity doidy don't forget you can always claim yourself SOKE! And if you end up with more than one Grandmaster, you can always be an Elder Grandmaster.
But if grandmaster sounds to hoity doidy don't forget you can always claim yourself SOKE! And if you end up with more than one Grandmaster, you can always be an Elder Grandmaster.
I was dreaming of the past...
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RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
" I'm proud to say that one of my own students is "grandmaster" of our very own dodo system. "
Does the system have a secret handshake? If not, it is probably inferior. Any legit style has a secret handshake.
As for titles, when I create my own style I will declare myself 'Generalisimo'!
Rich
Does the system have a secret handshake? If not, it is probably inferior. Any legit style has a secret handshake.
As for titles, when I create my own style I will declare myself 'Generalisimo'!
Rich
Member of the world's premier gun club, the USMC!
Hi Jay. Good to see your words on the forum. Professor? Wasn't Remy Prejas called "professor?" He is deserving of whatever titles one can bestow upon him.
Mikek,
In Attleboro some 30 years back, a Korean Grandmaster gave a demonstration near Briggs Corner. The establishment was packed. He was 15th dan, and in my young innocence I couldn't figure how anyone could rise above 10th. I wonder what his rank is today.
When I taught TKD in Chicago in the 80s, I was decently-advanced with dan and teaching TKD certificates [earned in my early life as opposed to what I hear are the Korean gifts of today]. Although I was the defacto head instructor of that dojang, my title, given to me by the students, was "Coach." And I loved it.
Mikek,
One system I know uses gold Roman Numerals in place of the collection of gold stripes.I prefer that to a dozen gold stripes and a extra long belt
In Attleboro some 30 years back, a Korean Grandmaster gave a demonstration near Briggs Corner. The establishment was packed. He was 15th dan, and in my young innocence I couldn't figure how anyone could rise above 10th. I wonder what his rank is today.
When I taught TKD in Chicago in the 80s, I was decently-advanced with dan and teaching TKD certificates [earned in my early life as opposed to what I hear are the Korean gifts of today]. Although I was the defacto head instructor of that dojang, my title, given to me by the students, was "Coach." And I loved it.
Last edited by Deep Sea on Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
thanks lol..
I as usual learned alot and I agree with Bill also with the fact that earning one's title like so many of you have and have pointed out is alot different than what seems to be common today as one said of someone being 15th dan or whatever it's just wild lol.to bad there isn't some kind of standard in the martial arts for all so you can't claim to be this or that.I liked the title of Generalismo that was a good one lol..how bout grand puba lol..oh well I'm glad i saw the opinions and know more than I did about how some see it or how to tell what is what..it's confusing to me to decipher who is who and where they learned what.Also Bill i'm going to not ask any questions of the dodo cause i want to live long enough to study Uechi more in depth and learn more so I won't ask any questions.thanks guys and ladies very helpful
Jeff
Jeff
