Rank.......

[Mills75]

I know this subject has been talked about but I really wanted to express the fondness I have for this art and how much I enjoy it in all aspects but another thing that makes this forum nice and I have seen so far in every Uechika I have conversed with or met is the fact that nobody talks about belt colors or titles or status symbols and everyone considers themselves on a learning journey that they don't like to define by a color or a number of dan rank.Everyone knows who is who and everyone respects the input and ideas and it's nice when you can feel part of something and not on the outside looking in.nobody classifies themselves as the ships captian but instead it seems we chart our course together and in common which is cool. At my school we offer respect because it's deserved like here but we don't talk about who has what belt or concern ourselves with talk of rank.We don't seek trophies or cheering crowds but we do it for our personal achievement and goals in the arts.I've heard your always beginning no matter where you are in your art and your always embarking on a new experience for different knowledge so I really love that about Uechi-ryu because to me this is one of the many things that makes this a real art and not a cheap imitation.

[Stryke]

Sounds like a good club youve got there Jeff

at the end of the day how many Dan ranks in whatever style matters little , In the end we will be remembered by our actions and words .

were all just Men , and luckily some are Ladies as well

[2Green]

Hi Mills75:

I'll reiterate my personal take on the belt/rank thing -- this is how I conceive it to be:

When you bought your Gi, it came with a belt. You didn't earn it, you bought it.
After a period of training, a marker of some type was placed on your belt, or your belt/rank was upgraded to a new level.
However, you have not yet accomplished this level, you are now training at this level.
Following this progression it is logical that the belt/rank you are training at is not the one you have "earned" it is the one you are trying to fulfill.

The belts/ranks you have completed you no longer wear.

NM

[Guest]

were all just Men , and luckily some are Ladies as well

I don't know mate, I think there may be lots of prisoners who don't feel so lucky being ladies as well.

Good post my friend our deeds and word define us. If our word is of no value then so are we.

[Guest]

[Deep Sea]

When we compete in tournaments and visit others' dojo, we wear our Uechi colors for necessity and to show respect. If belt colors and ranks mean anything else to them, they hold it in their hearts, not overtly.

In my three dojo through the years my students come to class in sweats, shorts, or whatever -- no gi nor belts -- and go home same. When satisfied they have learned the theme (such as a kata, bunkai, etc.), they begin to attack the next intralocking theme in sequence.

But I think commercial dojo would not survive without gis and colored belts, especially the kids. Many need the outward signs of accomplishment for their efforts and sweat. If they don't get it they'll go where they will.

[2Green]

We wear our belts and Gi's in class even though it's a very small and informal environment. There's no phony rank stuff between us but we bow in and out of drills and Kata, and we have a quick "standing bow" and mutual "Domo" (thank you) between students and Sensei at the end of class.
In class we all work together "rankless" if you will, under the direction of our teacher.

I think it would be fair to say we conduct common civil respect between us, but special respect for the learning and for our Sensei, and for Uechi Ryu.
A simple example might be where I explained to a nervous kid who outranked me by 5 levels that it was okay to hit me -- there would be no "getting back" at him if he slid in a hard shot, when it was my turn to attack. To me, THAT would be B.S.

To me the wearing of Gi's and some of the small formalities are not B.S., they are part of the tradition of learning, being a student, putting oneself in a mindset of special learning, and a way of perpetuating the wonderful chain of events that brought us into this fold in the first place.

It's the false pride in outward symbols of status that can become the problem or the goal, and frankly, we have none of that.
And personally -- at home I love the freedom of working out in loose flannel pants and a tank top. Wish my Gi felt like that!

NM

[Deep Sea]

To me the wearing of Gi's and some of the small formalities

I'm with you 99%, 2green; I consider those things to be absolutely necessary in most places. Whenever my students and/or myself visit/attend exernal karate outings and events, we always wear gis and belts appropriately; exactly for the reasons you mentioned above.

Anywhere one goes in life, anything one does, in terms of group activities, the "colors" must be there from the street gang to the choir to the motorcycle club, to the job, and in to the dojo. Everyone has their place in the "pecking order" of things. One of the beautiful things about martial arts and the wearing of Gi's and some of the small formalities is that this pecking order can be so dynamic and exciting, like swirling moire patterns.

An example which comes to mind is the raging river with flotsam and jetsam. The individual surface elements sometimes seem to move erraticly and unpredictably. However, upon changing focus, one witnesses a pattern of groups of items moving forward and others held back by for a time only to be released at higher speeds, often overtaking other groups, and individual elements who seem to be rushing forward on their own independantly of any of the others.

If one could only capture through a lifetime on some sort of time-elapsed video [as one can of the car lights of evening rush-hour traffic or the surface of the raging torrential stream or even of the whisping clouds on a blustery day] of students' belt colors as they change, disappear, become introduced, rush forward, remain stationary, move forward slowly but at a constant speed, interesting patterns would be revealed across different dojo, dojang, and kwans.

And then to put meaning to those patterns could result in abstract interpretations and maybe even helpful evaluations. Belts and gis definitely breathe life into organizations without a doubt.

Ah! The freedoms of tank-top workouts -- invigorating and enjoyable.

[MikeK]

I don't mind wearing a gi as it saves wear and tear on my street clothes. I do prefer to workout in street clothes when doing any kind of self defense training. When it comes to rank I don't ever really ask and to a certain extent don't care. As long as a person is good I respect them. This (bad?) attitude could be because I've worn a white belt more often then anything else.

I keep thinking about dinner this last Tuesday and the amount of good and great karateka at the table. Not one black belt picked a seat according to rank, was served according to rank or anything else. It was just a bunch of good folks having a nice time. That impressed me big time. I think rank is OK as long as it's kept in perspective.

[sdwoodill]

I would like to Quote a fellow karataka when he said "as far as i'm concerened a belt is just something that holds your gi together I'm here to train and that is that." (Roy Dixon)

Shaun

[Harry Cook]

The Sufi teacher Idries Shah observed "At first you are not worthy of the robes and implements of the Sufi. Later you do not need them. Finally you may need them for the sake of others."
Sounds about right to me when thinking about grades, ranks, titles etc etc.
Harry Cook