First production fuel cell vehicle (told you so...)

[Bill Glasheen]

This is for my friend Rich, who had myriad friendly arguments with me over the years about the nature of a fuel cell vehicle.

Among other things, I argued that hybrids were a stepping stone to fuel cell vehicles.

• Regen would be needed to achieve range
• Batteries (probably lithium) would be needed to store energy, as real-time generation of electricity from fuel cells can leave a lot to be desired. The batteries would also be needed to preserve the energy captured from regen.

Rich often argued that the batteries and the regen were wasted weight. (Never mind that they are insignificant when compared to a cargo of kids and stuff such as I commony carry every single day)

Well...

First we have myriad GM "Volt" prototypes. So far, one gets a choice of various hybrid combinations. One picks and chooses from a list of gas engine, fuel cell, battery operated, diesel, etc.

And now... Honda has announced the first production fuel cell car.

Honda Achieves Clarity

Honda enhances its green image with a fuel-cell production car.



With "green" being an ongoing theme at the 2007 Los Angeles Auto Show, it was fitting that Honda would choose that venue to debut its all-new FCX Clarity. With styling very similar to the FCX concept car, the Clarity is a zero-emission electric vehicle powered by Honda's latest-generation hydrogen fuel-cell system.

Honda's recent advances in fuel-cell technology have made it possible to build a vehicle as sleek as the Clarity. Typically, fuel-cell vehicles need to be large in order to provide space for the hydrogen fuel tank as well as the fuel-cell stack. The stack produces electricity by combining hydrogen and oxygen and then harnessing the chemical energy from the reaction.

Honda's new fuel-cell stack is 65-percent smaller than the previous version, yet produces more power. And although the FCX Clarity is brimming with advanced technology, one of the most noteworthy is the first commercial use of a highly efficient lithium-ion battery pack that stores excess energy from the fuel cell. The Clarity is also capable of operating in extremely warm and cold temperatures, a hurdle that many fuel-cell systems have yet to conquer.

Driving the Clarity

We had the opportunity to take a spin in this automotive harbinger following the LA Auto Show and came away impressed.

***

Turning the key and pressing the blue "Power"' button on the dash brings the car to life. Unique, three-dimensional gauges provide both hydrogen fuel levels as well as available charge left in the batteries. Like a hybrid, until you get rolling, no fuel is used — power arrives from the batteries, not the fuel cell. A ball in the middle of the round display changes color and size depending on the efficiency of your driving. The goal is to keep the circle small and blue. Large and amber means you're not driving very efficiently.

While the Clarity runs on electricity, it is not silent. There were all sorts of noises emanating from the car: fans, the whine of the electric motor and something that sounded like flaps being extended on an airliner. Acceleration is similar to what you'd expect with a small, 4-cylinder engine, but the Clarity moves off the line much more smoothly. This is due to the flat torque curve of the electric motor as well as the continuously variable transmission. We didn't reach the claimed top speed of 100 mph, but the Clarity cruised along just fine at 70.

Steering feels a bit disconnected from the road, and the brakes are a bit grabby — not an uncommon trait with regenerative systems, which harness the energy from braking back into the batteries. The Clarity's handling is acceptable. I wouldn't call it sporty, but it's capable of emergency maneuvers without much drama. Ultimately, it drives like your basic Honda sedan.

Most surprising about our experience in the Clarity was that after several miles behind the wheel, you forget that it's powered by a fuel cell . Aside from the sounds it makes, it drives like a regular car. This is crucial if fuel-cell vehicles are to have a chance at becoming commonplace.

Next summer Honda will make this advanced fuel-cell vehicle available to a limited number of retail customers in Southern California. Cars will be leased for three years at a cost of $600 per month, which includes maintenance and collision insurance.

***

But what about the lack of a hydrogen infrastructure for fueling the vehicle? Well...

Home Energy Station

One of the biggest hurdles to more widespread use of fuel-cell cars is the lack of infrastructure — there are very few places to fill a car with hydrogen. But Honda is working on a solution.

The fourth generation of the experimental Home Energy Station was on display at the LA show, and when it reaches production it will have the potential to change the way we live.

Hooked up to a home's natural gas line, the Home Energy Station would convert natural gas to hydrogen for filling a fuel-cell vehicle. The conversion process would also supply the home with heat and electricity, reducing energy costs both at home and on the road.

With the ability to create hydrogen anywhere there is a natural gas line, the question, "Where do I fill up my fuel-cell car?" will no longer be an issue. The future may be closer than we think.

Wow... Not bad!

- Bill

Source: msn autos

[f.Channell]

Not Bad?

$600 a month for a car the size of a civic? And that's the lease.

But perhaps a step in the right direction.

F.

[Bill Glasheen]

$600 a month for a car the size of a civic?

No

As if glimpsing a Honda Accord from 20 years hence, the Clarity is a sleek sedan with graceful lines.

And according to Wikipedia...

The Honda Accord is an automobile manufactured by Honda since 1976, debuting as a compact hatchback and evolving into a intermediate vehicle.

And that's the lease.

But perhaps a step in the right direction.

Honda claims the FCX Clarity is expected to achieve the equivalent of 68 mpg, with a range of 270 miles. We were able to achieve 59 miles per kilogram of hydrogen, which we're told is practically equivalent to miles per gallon. That's not bad for a combined city/highway drive and seems to support Honda's numbers.

I suspect that when a barrel of crude gets to be several hundred dollars, you'll consider a "first ever" vehicle such as this one as being a pretty good deal.

I can remember in the 70's OPEC oil embargo where I was driving vehicles smaller than this one, and with less power. I thought I had it good.

It's all relative. Right now we're spoiled by cheap energy. Fasten your seatbelts; it won't last.

Something else... The first ever anything is obscenely expensive. My first PC cost me $2000. It had a 4.77 MHz chip (vs. several GHz as the standard today), 128K RAM (vs. several GB today), and didn't even have a hard drive. I thought I died and went to heaven. It allowed me to write my dissertation (spread over one chapter per floppy drive) w/o needing to do my equations manually. That was BIG. When I got corrections on my drafts, I was able to turn a new copy around in 24 hours. That was unheard of at the time, and allowed me to be the first ever in my department to do a defense w/o any corrections recommended.

Again, it's all relative. This isn't a toy. This thing will go. And if there are gas lines, you can still fill up at home.

- Bill

[Valkenar]

One question I have. How much lithium is in the battery and how common is usable lithium? In other words, if every car was this car, would there be enough lithium to go around? I know seemingly abundant metals like copper have been increasing in price dramatically due to demand from the computer industry. Lithium batteries are already exceedingly common, but I'm wondering what effect, if any, pervasive use by cars would have,

I checked wikipedia for abundance information lithium, but found conflicting data.

[Bill Glasheen]

Good question, Justin.

Again, it's all relative. Today car batteries are made of 18 pounds of lead with a pound of sulphuric acid. I doubt anyone would be able to introduce such a heavy and toxic device today w/o raising some eyebrows.

Nickel isn't much better.

It's not that rare an element, and it's relatively nontoxic.

Lithium is a Group 1 (IA) element containing just a single valence electron (1s22s1). Group 1 elements are called "alkali metals". Lithium is a solid only about half as dense as water. A freshly cut chunk of lithium is silvery, but tarnishes in a minute or so in air to give a grey surface.

Lithium is mixed (alloyed) with aluminium and magnesium for light-weight alloys, and is also used in batteries, some greases, some glasses, and in medicine.

***

Lithium would not normally be made in the laboratory as it is so readily available commercially.

- webelements.com


- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

On toxicity and recycling...

Lithium Batteries

Processes currently available:

• A lithium salt mixture is recovered and shipped to another facililty that recovers pure lithium carbonate from the impure mixture of lithium salts. The lithium carbonate is then sold back to the battery manufacturers.
• The batteries are "deactivated" through a "hydrosaline" process which renders them non-hazardous. The remains are interned into a double lined environmental protection facility.

- Battery Solutions, Inc.

[Bill Glasheen]

- Nearing Zero

[RACastanet]

This is for my friend Rich, who had myriad friendly arguments with me over the years about the nature of a fuel cell vehicle.

Among other things, I argued that hybrids were a stepping stone to fuel cell vehicles.

I always agreed that the hybrids were a stepping stone and that is exactly my issue with hybrids. That is what they are. Ultimately, the car of the future will be a pure hydrogen fuel cell driven vehicle. I hate to see time and $$ wasted on a transition vehicle.

The extras required for regen is a pretty big load. In addition to the electric motors is the generator or alternator and the two stage power semiconductors. These are large banks of thyristors mounted in large heat sinks.

Vulkenar has a point about the batteries. They are toxic and even though meant to be recycled many will end up in a dump somewhere as I suspect many old lead acid batteries do.

I am thrilled to see a commercial fuel cell vehicle in any form but will wait for one without the complexity of the hybrid.

Rich

[Bill Glasheen]

I am thrilled to see a commercial fuel cell vehicle in any form but will wait for one without the complexity of the hybrid.

Waiting for Gidot, my friend.

Even your beloved GM is in the hybrid and battery business with the Volt. I found the GM euphemisms to be hilarious. But that's me.

The concept vehicle appeared in the Detroit Auto Show[6] introduces the E-Flex[7] drive system, which is an attempt to standardize many components of possible future electrically-propelled vehicles, and to allow multiple interchangeable electricity-generating systems. The initial design as envisioned in the Volt combines an electric motor and 16 kWh (58 MJ) lithium-ion battery plug-in system[8] with a small engine (1 litre) powered by gasoline linked to a 53 kW generator. The vehicle is propelled by electrical motors with a peak output of 120 kW (160 horsepower). Ordinarily, the vehicle would be charged while at home overnight (plug-in hybrid). A full charge reportedly takes 6.5 hours from a standard North American 120 V, 20 A household outlet. The vehicle has two charging ports for convenience, one on each side.[9]

Since the electrical drivetrain is not affected by the method used to charge its batteries, several options could be available for an engine. The primary configuration specified in promotional literature uses a turbocharged 1.0-liter engine with three cylinders. It would be a flex-fuel engine capable of running gasoline or E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline). Fuel would be supplied from a "saddle" tank 45 litres (12 US gal) in size.

The second option is the Volt fuel cell vehicle, which appeared in the 2007 Shanghai Auto Show.[6]

Other options have also been mentioned, such as a pure ethanol (E100) engine, a diesel engine capable of running biodiesel fuel, or even a hydrogen fuel cell, once that technology becomes practical. (The Ford Airstream concept, which debuted at the same show, uses a fuel cell plug-in hybrid design.)

This general layout is considered a plug-in series hybrid design since mechanical power initially drives the generator, which in turn charges the battery pack. Power is then drained from the batteries to run the electrical motors which move the vehicle. The internal combustion engine does not have any mechanical linkage to the wheels (unlike current vehicles such as the Toyota Prius), and can run at a constant speed for optimal efficiency.

GM plans to keep the lithium-ion battery in a state-of-charge (SOC) range of between 30% and 80%, with the on-board generator starting to recharge the battery at the 30% level.[10]

GM has decided on a new descriptive terminology distinct from calling it a hybrid. They are calling the Volt an E-REV, for "extended-range electric vehicle".[11]

Meanwhile, check out what Tesla Motors is doing.

electric cars are mechanically much simpler than both gasoline cars and fuel-cell cars. There is no motor oil, no filters, no spark plugs, no oxygen sensors. The motor has one moving part, there is no clutch pedal, and the transmission is much simpler. Due to regenerative braking, even friction brakes will encounter little wear

Oh my... There's that regen thing again. And do I see them implying that it's <ahem> superior to conventional brakes?

Give it up, my friend.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

2007 Chevrolet Volt Concept
By Jason Cammisa


Why it's one of our most signficicant: While the Volt concept is an electric car with a small turbocharged engine to keep the batteries charged, the edgy sedan's "E-flex" technology provides a template for future fuel cell vehicles. The clever layout showcased here offers the flexibility to bolt any power source into the Volt to keep the battery charged.

- Automobile

Oh my... There's that pesky battery thing again. And that "E-flex" euphemism (a.k.a. hybrid).



- Bill

[RACastanet]

Oh my... There's that regen thing again. And do I see them implying that it's < ahem > superior to conventional brakes?

That may be true at high speeds, however a serious lack of knowledge and understanding of electrical rotating machines is evident.

Friction brakes do wear out with use but have one very importabt trait... they work at all speed ranges. Using regen, the reverse torque is roughly proportional to the square of the speed of the generating device. To put it in simple terms for you, at low speeds there is very low braking torque available. At zero speed there is zero braking torque. Regen can slow you quickly but cannot stop you. Regen is supplemental to the friction brake, not a replacement.

Also, full regen braking is dependent on having somewhere for the energy to go. If the battery is fully charged the electronics will not allow the continual pumping of energy into the battery. Batteries overheat and fail, possibly explosively, if overcharged. Where does the energy go? A second sysyem called dynamic braking might be used. In this case the energy is dumped into a resistor grid that simply turns the energy into heat. This has three disadvantages... it gets very hot, needs to be very large, and like regen, has little braking effect at low speeds. In fact, at around 10% speed it produces essesntially zero braking torque. In a car dynamic braking is not practical.

Another issue of maintenance lies in systems using DC motors. At low speeds DC motors really do not like regen. Replacing brake shoes is a very simple task. Replacing DC brushsets is not. A 'DC' car used in stop and go traffic would be in for some serious $$$$ for motor maintenance.

The most valuable feature of friction brakes? Friction brakes are very simple and reliable. Regen systems, on the other hand are very complex and rely on a lot of electronics to be working properly. A blown fuse or a failure anywhere in the circuitry will render regen useless or greatly diminished. As an example, I have seen this happen on paper machines and metal rolling machines. These machines have enormous rotating inertia. On the occasions that regen was lost these machines literally coasted for hours.

Bottom line, until the regen electrics are made 99.99999% (five nines to the right of the decimal point here Bill - how many 'Sigmas'?) give me disc brakes!

The concept of a plug-in hybrid does make some sense to me as the utilities can generate electricity so efficiently. With the onboard genset the range would be reasonable for a local use and daily commuting. It is a step forward but still is just another transition vehicle.

Rich

[Bill Glasheen]

That may be true at high speeds, however a serious lack of knowledge and understanding of electrical rotating machines is evident.

You'll have to go tell that to Professor Emeritus Dr. Jones. He'll get a kick out of that.

Yes, Rich, I understand everything you wrote. But here's the thing. With low speeds, the disc brakes have a low load. With zero speed, nothing needs to be braking. So yes, it's quite possible for a regen "system" to require less maintenance than a typical disc brake system.

And your faith in disc brakes totally flies in the face of what my wife does to her own. Oh ... my ... God! "Art" and I finally gave up, and installed a heavy duty set of pads and discs all the way around. And that's on a tiny Forester.

What she was doing to brakes would mean lots and lots of saved energy in a regen system - with much less wear. Right now, all we're doing is pissing ALL (100%) of that energy away in heat.


Go figure.

Bottom line, until the regen electrics are made 99.99999% (five nines to the right of the decimal point here Bill - how many 'Sigmas'?) give me disc brakes!

The Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme quad-core QX9650 has 820 million transistors. And you know what? I have owned quite a few PCs in my life, and have never, ever had an Intel chip fail in one of them.

Go to the back of Consumer Reports, Rich, and check out the reliability numbers on the very crude Prius. You know what? They're better than all of your beloved GM vehicles.

FWIW, my baby sister had conventional brakes fail in her car. She stopped it by running into a tree. The plastic surgery to save her face wasn't cheap.

Also, full regen braking is dependent on having somewhere for the energy to go. If the battery is fully charged the electronics will not allow the continual pumping of energy into the battery.

You need to go to your own GM site and see how they've handled this, Rich.

No (none, zero, zilch) batteries are overcharged in a regen system, or a conventional auto battery system with an alternator for that matter. Why are you bringing this up? This is crazy! This too is generations old technology.

I did minor in electrical engineering, Rich.

As a non sequitur, ever worked on a BSA? What a trip that electrical system is.

And with all your talk of energy lost to heat, you have to remember how all these technologies stack up soup to nuts. You might enjoy reading this article some time.

Gauging Efficiency, Well to Wheel

Another issue of maintenance lies in systems using DC motors. At low speeds DC motors really do not like regen. Replacing brake shoes is a very simple task. Replacing DC brushsets is not. A 'DC' car used in stop and go traffic would be in for some serious $$$$ for motor maintenance.

Absolutely, positively, 100% not true.

It has cost me a fortune to maintain my wife's conventional disc brake system. There are all those pads, and the warped rotors, etc., etc. I wish you had my bills.

Every seen one of these?



I have personally replaced the brushes in one of those when I was a kid. When my mom passed away, we gave the thing away - still working.

My beloved 1975 Super J has had its brushes replaced by a technician - both in the main canister and the beater bar. I've had my baby since my college days.



Piece of cake, and very, very inexpensive to maintain. The damn things just keep going and going and going... My wife has not permanently broken it - yet. That says a lot. She and mechanical things don't get along. She killed 4 Saturn engines in 60,000 miles before I sent the carcass to the Kidney Foundation.

Generations old technology.

Shame on you for dissing all that good GE technology.

- Bill

[RACastanet]

With zero speed, nothing needs to be braking.

I guess you have never been stopped on a hill. Where do you live?

You'll have to go tell that to Professor Emeritus Dr. Jones. He'll get a kick out of that.

Actually I would enjoy that. One thing that I found out living in the real world of engineering is that a lot of the intelligencia never really put anything into use or practice. Theory is one thing... actual application is another. I'll put my 30 years experience and "PE" up against most PHDs.

I see this even at the county schools with me versus the Physics grads. They know the theory but not the application. When all of the Phsyics teachers get together to discuss curriculum and the like the best work is done by the 'second career' types. Besides myself, we have an air force retiree with 20 years in NASA, as well as a retired Army officer and a sailor who spent 6 years in the engine/reactor space on the USS Enterprise. We know stuff.

And your faith in disc brakes totally flies in the face of what my wife does to her own. Oh ... my ... God!

Well, there will always be outlyers. Murphy lives. Your wife must be a two footed driver. Nothing can be truly foolproofed as the fools are too smart! (no insult intended here) And yes, everything can fail, even brakes. But most often that is due to lack of maintenance.

The Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme quad-core QX9650 has 820 million transistors. And you know what? I have owned quite a few PCs in my life, and have never, ever had an Intel chip fail in one of them.

Quite true. I have never had a processor failure either. However, these systems live in a very protected world. The total system reliability of all components combined is the true test. Ever had a hard drive fail? That usually leave the whole system unuseable no matter how good the processor is. Do not think component, think of all the components in a system. Even a simple fuse or wiring harness problem can seriously compromise the system.

Motorola was the first company to put Six Sigma into widespead use. The numbers were spectacular. However, they did this by counting every processor with a million internal components as a success. When all the other parts and pieces were wrapped in the one failure per 4 million or so disappeared.

Also, compare other products. Reynolds metal achieved 6 Sigma by being able to deliver 4 million beer cans with only one failure to Miller or whoever. OK, one simple piece... a can. Look at a GE aircraft engine with 10,000+ components spinning at thousands of RPMs at temps of 3,000 degrees F for thousands of hours at 7 Sigma. That is an accomplishment! But, a beer can costs a nickel while the engine costs about $10 million. The can protected beer, which is good, but the aircraft engine had to keep hundreds of people alive and well, hence the huge cost.

Go to the back of Consumer Reports, Rich, and check out the reliability numbers on the very crude Prius. You know what? They're better than all of your beloved GM vehicles.

This is true but GM product are up in the top 5 these days and improving. I personally put more value in the JD Power reports though, especially the three year reliability survey. GM is up there. Gee, by the way, I saw a Toyota add offering a $2,000 incentive on the Prius this week. They must be really in demand. I also noticed that Honda has discontinued one of its models - the Accord? - so demand is not meeting expectations.

I have personally replaced the brushes in one of those when I was a kid. When my mom passed away, we gave the thing away - still working.

No doubt about this. I do it as well. In a car however, the brushes will be in a less than convenient location - under the car and probably in a sealed motor. Also, in high current applications they are in large banks requiring precision alignment. And vacuum cleners do not have regen yet. Regen is a brush eater as brushes like to work in one direction.

Complexity is the enemy of reliability. KISS!

Rich

[RACastanet]

No (none, zero, zilch) batteries are overcharged in a regen system, or a conventional auto battery system with an alternator for that matter. Why are you bringing this up? This is crazy! This too is generations old technology.

You miss the whole idea here. There is a regulator on or in the alternator that regulates the battery charging so it does not overcharge the battery. Simple and reliable. In a regen system the energy needs to go somewhere. If the batteries are at full charge it cannot go there. It must either be burned up as heat in a resistor bank or not generated at all. In this instance the braking would have to be by the pads and rotors. If you continue to pour energy into a fully charged battery it will overheat and fail.

Years ago, before alternators were used, autos used a DC generator to charge the battery and run lights and accessories. Regulating a DC generator was a real bear, and often a carbon (think resistor) pile regulator was somewhere under the hood. It worked but was inefficient and hard on the battery.

Rich

[Bill Glasheen]

Go to Toyota and check how they do it, Rich. This isn't theory any more, and the Prius is more reliable than a conventional vehicle.

Check out the Tesla. That regen is even more simple than the Prius. And the replaceable, recyclable battery pack lasts 100,000 miles.

Here's how it can all come together. You make things way too complex in your devil's advocate posts. This is KISS - better than you've imagined.



This is a battery-powered car that will go 0-60 in less than 4 seconds. It's completely electric.

It has a (gasp) lithium-ion battery pack. The ultra-light pack is completely replaceable and recyclable. *

Battery Life Useful battery, 100,000 miles

Energy Storage System Custom microprocessor-controlled lithium-ion battery pack

Full Charge About 3.5 hours

It has (gasp) regen!

Motor 3-phase, 4-pole electric motor, 248hp peak (185kW), redline 13,000 rpm, regenerative "engine braking"

And it comes with a top-of-the-line set of discs brakes to back them up.

Type: Cross-drilled 300 mm front and 310 mm rear discs with curved vane ventilation; AP Racing Two piston Aluminum fixed front calipers; Brembo Single piston sliding rear calipers

Operation: Vacuum pump driven Servo assisted with 4 wheel ABS system

It has a perfectly flat torque curve from zero to 6000 RPM.

Top speed is 125 mph, and it goes 220 miles on a charge.

Available today from Tesla Motors of California.

Tell Santa I've been a good boy...

- Bill

* All Lithium Ion batteries are classified by the federal government as non-hazardous waste and are safe for disposal in the normal municipal waste stream. These batteries, however, do contain recyclable materials that make recycling a good idea.