Karate exponent laments loss of standards across Asia

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Kuma-de
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Karate exponent laments loss of standards across Asia

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By Ramesh Mathew
Published: Friday, 28 March, 2008, 04:41 AM Doha Time

THE increasing migration of Japanese martial art trainers from their home land these days to Europe has drastically altered the equations in karate, said a prominent exponent of the discipline from India, who has won laurels for his country at South Asian level a number of occasions.

“The main reason behind their movement to the west is the neglect to karate in Japan as a sport these days,” said Chennai-based Jacob Devakumar, a leading karate technical delegate and a former Indian national champion.

Devakumar is in Doha on a private assignment. The exponent, whose name was synonymous with the discipline in South Asia until the early 1990s, feels that karate is suffering in that region owing to the presence of numerous schools.

“Actually, it is a matter of concern not only to performers from South Asia but virtually everyone involved in the discipline,” said Devakumar.

He attributes this to administrators’ refusal to accept karate as a sport world wide and patrons of each school in virtually every country involved in one-upmanship over others.

Otherwise, it would have long been a sport at the Olympics, said Devakumar. Martial disciplines with less following than karate have already been accepted as an Olympic sport, he rued.

Stressing that every form of karate has its beauty and flavour, Devakumar who follows Shito-Ryu school of thought said with the increasing migration of Japanese masters to the West, Asia’s domination is virtually over.

At the same time, countries like France, UK and Northern Ireland have been capitalising on their move and have emerged as strong teams at the international level.

Spain and Belgium too are supporting karate in a great way and Japanese trainers are giving out their best to build up strong teams there as well, said Devakumar.

“However, among most Asians, still there is a great hesitation to accept it as a sport,” he added.

For instance in India, at the school level there is a great level of enthusiasm among students to experiment new tactics. A number of schools do have full-time trainers.

“But once they grow up, the students forget the skills acquired in childhood in the absence any follow up,” he said.

“What I have learnt from my numerous years of international experience is that in the Middle East, Iran has been putting in a lot of efforts to come to world standards. Their exponents are certainly the best in the region,” said the trainer.

It’s not that others are not that good but very few are taking it up as a sport in the region, he said. “It is being mainly taught in the region as a defensive strategy and not as a sport,” stressed the trainer.
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

Yeah it *****. I love this art, and i plan to pass it on.


But we have to keep up with the times, which we have not.

50 minutes of kata in a one hour class is pretty boring, pushing tradition too much...among other things.

We have to be willing to bend tradition. We don't have to get rid of it, just be flexible.

We need to deliver on what we advertise: If we say we will teach self defense, then thats what we should focus on. If you advertise sport, then focus on sport.

Lots of people do martial arts for personal protection.

Some people do it for sport(IE full contact kyokushin or any karate with daido-juku rules)

Some do it to stay in shape.

But we get so caught up in our Traditions that we neglect what ever goals we want. If we want to push fitness then do so. Want to push sport? Then work for that and spar for that. Want to stay in shape? then go for that.


We also must understand what karate attacts.


The MMA school i train at is 'too karate'. People join up because they want to compete and fight amateur. Most of the guys are already super fit. Yet the sensie insists on having heavy calisthetics and cardio workouts at the beginning of class. Newbies that join up tend to be in shape, so they barely have any exertion. MMA attracts a different type of person. As a result, the place i train with is small. It's a competitive MMA school with a kyokushin training program. So we got maybe 15 guys who train with the head coach and 30 guys who train with the assistant coach(who is more ''pure'' MMA competitive training)


Using the flip side of the coin: Ive seen schools advertise as karate and fitness, but are very competive. You got 40 year old woman joining up because they want to stay in shape, they have no intention of fighting, yet the school may be focussed on competition. It ADVERTISES get fit, but does more sparring and hard drilling then fitness(not that those activities don't make you fit, they do, but they arn't exclusivly made for it) as a result, the school gets small.

OR lets look at it another way, a school that advertises self defense but trains people for point sparring, and is exclusivly focussed on that despite attracting people who want self defense. As a result, the school will be smaller.



Now with RBSD and MMA and the popularity of combat sports, people see more of a focus on one area. They see Krav maga and it's intensity and mindset training, so the self defense guys go there. THe combat sports guys tend to go to MMA now. THe fitness dudes tend to stick with TKD and karate(depending ont he school)



The point of my drawn out post?


It's this: We advertise so much, but focus on one thing. We will advertise everything but focus on one thing.

In japan, they lvoe PRIDE, they love Vale TUdo. Boxing has made a come back.

SO that probably explains interest in those sports more.
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Post by Van Canna »

Great post :D
Van
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Post by MikeK »

Hmmm... what do the Japanese know about some of these masters that we don't? :wink:
I was dreaming of the past...
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Post by cxt »

Kinda depends on what one means by "traditional."

Traditonal training was strength-training, hitting stuff--heavy bags/maki/etc, two person resistant drills and exercises, kata and often some form of practice fighting---officially or un-officially. ;)

Not trying to disagree with AAA post but "50 minutes of kata in a one hour class........pushing traditon to much."

It just that does not sound like any "traditional" teaching I know much about...or would want to.

In terms of the actual article.....I think my problem with it is the assumption that sport in general should be the standard for judgeing karate---when anyone that has been around the block knows that what kind of sport specificially your talking about makes serious difference.
IMO hard sparring with plenty of contact probably has some advatages as a sport-----a high speed pillow fight--such as one finds at many "open" meets is probably less effective/helpful...and could actually be harmful.

Beyond that there are probabaly some things that need to be considerd--thing that the author of the article seems not to have really thought about.

If the sport aspect become "the point" for karate then what happens to all those people when they get too old to compete?
What does karate offer for the long term practice of the art when the point becomes competion?
Anybody still running comptetive track or still wrestling like they did back in HS or college??????

(sure there are some people that do--but the vast majority of people simply stop once their "playing days" are behind them.....mainly because there is no larger point or interest beyond the competiton. )

For that matter what would such an approach offer to the person that either did not care to compete or simply did not compete well......would it be a good thing for "karate" to operate like your HS football team...where if your highly athletic and 6'2 and weigh 210 you have a shot---and if your not the "best" you mainly get to ride the pine?

There are probably some business problems lurking about as well.
In most schools most of the students are not top fight competitors--but being the largest set of students they pay most of the bills-----how are they going to feel if they get passed by/up by the teacher that is pushing hsi comtpetion teams?
It would really piss me off to be essentially underwriting someone elses training.

In terms of the Olympics there are some lessons to be learned as well.

Look at Judo---they don't really have control over their own art anymore---some paper pushers from the IOC do.
Wonder of the author had thought about someone from another country essentially telling him what and how he must train in his own school?

TKD's path to the Olympics has left a lot of bodies (figuratively speaking) in its wake.

IMO part of karates strength is that it has multiple styles, multiple approachs--this would probably be lost as the "tournament" style developed--indeed we have seen such diversity largely vanish in TKD and we have seen such a tournament style develop here in the States.

I'm not sure that less diversity is a good thing on banc---less diversity is seldom good for anything.

There was a really good article on this topic by a hardcore Shotokan guy---the thrust of his article was that he hoped that karate would become a real sport--even make it into the Olympics--because then all those people would leave him, his dojo and his training alone...they could go do their thing and he could his thing and everybody would be happier. ;)
Forget #6, you are now serving nonsense.

HH
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Good posts.

Japan's karate situation is somewhat interesting and unique. They train hard as kids and compete in sport martial arts at the college level. There's a lot of hazing and brutality. Then they go off to their jobs, and forget about it all.

Okinawa (the Ryukyu Islands) is a bit more protective of their core arts, and the sideshow of sport karate.

I agree that sport is good. Having Japan be competitive in the WKF - one of MANY sport karate examples - might be good. But if the country would rather love their sumo, well... let it be.

Mainland Japan really never was the source of karate in the first place. They are famous for jiujitsu/judo/aikido, iaido/kendo, and sumo. Everything else is an import. I see no reason for the average Japanese to shed a tear over this "loss."

- Bill
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Post by Kuma-de »

Bill Glasheen wrote:Good posts.

Japan's karate situation is somewhat interesting and unique. They train hard as kids and compete in sport martial arts at the college level. There's a lot of hazing and brutality. Then they go off to their jobs, and forget about it all.

Okinawa (the Ryukyu Islands) is a bit more protective of their core arts, and the sideshow of sport karate.

I agree that sport is good. Having Japan be competitive in the WKF - one of MANY sport karate examples - might be good. But if the country would rather love their sumo, well... let it be.

Mainland Japan really never was the source of karate in the first place. They are famous for jiujitsu/judo/aikido, iaido/kendo, and sumo. Everything else is an import. I see no reason for the average Japanese to shed a tear over this "loss."

- Bill
Hi Bill, Great points. The other thing to keep in perspective is overhead and income.

Try opening a new dojo in Tokyo or a similar Japanese city and you will pay huge money for rent and overhead. Unless you teach at an established dojo or locus that is already paid for, you can not afford the real estate.

Plus the average Japanese person is too busy these days to practice as you said once they leave the university settings. The fees that legitimate teachers can charge outside of Japan put them in demand.

Years back, all you had to be was Asian and throw on a gi and you were automatically a "Master". We used to chuckle about the 70's when TKD folks would get on the plane in Korea as a 1st dan and get off in NYC as a 7th dan, personal bodyguard to the So. Korean President and teacher for the Korean Military.

Resumes can be fluffed and puffed to look good. But the neophyte cannot see the tree through the forest.

Gambatte,
Jim Prouty
New England Budo Center
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Post by AAAhmed46 »

I think that if Karate pushes sport we should have variation.

I would love it if we could join up with those and Daido-juku guys.

But at the same time, it shouldn't be a must, not something we ALL have to do. Ive seen touch contact at kyokushin tournaments(followed by full contact) so if someone wants to do point sparring or CANT go hard sport, should have another option. But i would love it to be 'official' for uechi-ryu to be very...kudo.
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