FBI stats on justifiable homicide

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:02 pm

I found this article interesting.

FBI: Justifiable homicides at highest in more than a decade

It seems (inappropriately) from the outset to be blaming the trend on guns and shooters.

The number of justifiable homicides committed by police and private citizens has been rising in the past two years to their highest levels in more than a decade, reflecting a shoot-first philosophy in dealing with crime, say law enforcement analysts.

You have to dig deep and think hard to look at this and see the glass half full. What is very striking is seeing both LEO and citizen justifiable homicide on the uptick in parallel. It speaks somewhat to causality.

Articles such as these remind me of the spin doctors after political debates. The same conclusions are reached, no matter what the facts are.

- Bill

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:52 pm

For the stats on citizens in particular, is this trend representing an actual increase in justifiable homicides with no change in what is ruled justifiable, or is it simply an artifact of an increase in the percentage of homicides ruled as justifiable?

Actually a positive relationship between guns and justifiable homicides is possible. If more LEOs and citizens are armed and they are being confronted by an increasing number of armed bad guys, it stands to reason that there is the potential for more justifiable homicides as a result. I don't know that all the relevant stats would back that up however, for example by the same token I would expect non-justifiable homicides to also be increasing and they have been at lower levels in recent years.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:54 am

Glenn wrote:
If more LEOs and citizens are armed and they are being confronted by an increasing number of armed bad guys, it stands to reason that there is the potential for more justifiable homicides as a result. I don't know that all the relevant stats would back that up however, for example by the same token I would expect non-justifiable homicides to also be increasing and they have been at lower levels in recent years.

This reminds me of anti-gun lobbies decrying the efficiency of law enforcement in dispatching with bad guys after receiving intense training. Well... the idea is to stop the bad guy as efficiently as possible. If deadly force is required and you're doing what you're supposed to do - aiming for and hitting the center of mass - then more bad guys are going to get killed.

The idea that a "shoot-first philosophy" is a reality in this scenario is poppycock. Better training should lead to LEOs and citizens jumping straight to the appropriate level of force in a given situation, and using said force as efficiently and effectively as possible. WTF does "shooting first" mean? Shooting first has little to do with anything justifiable - hence the idiocy of the arm chair expert's assessment.

- Bill

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:53 pm

Bill Glasheen wrote: This reminds me of anti-gun lobbies decrying the efficiency of law enforcement in dispatching with bad guys after receiving intense training. Well... the idea is to stop the bad guy as efficiently as possible. If deadly force is required and you're doing what you're supposed to do - aiming for and hitting the center of mass - then more bad guys are going to get killed.

The idea that a "shoot-first philosophy" is a reality in this scenario is poppycock. Better training should lead to LEOs and citizens jumping straight to the appropriate level of force in a given situation, and using said force as efficiently and effectively as possible. WTF does "shooting first" mean? Shooting first has little to do with anything justifiable - hence the idiocy of the arm chair expert's assessment.

- Bill

I can't help but wonder how much TV/movies may be influecing the development of unrealistic expectations. You see it constantly, an officer taking out an armed suspect without firing a shot, or if they shoot then aiming for the arms or legs to only wound the suspect. People fail to realize the unlikeliness of these scenarios, or how risky they would be to the officers and bystanders. By the same token, look at how often we see officers shoot first in shows, which might influence the second perception you mention.

I suspect people had a more realistic idea of what it takes to efficiently stop a bad guy before action movies and police dramas came along.