the first stuff you learn

[fivedragons]

I'm just gonna throw this out there for the sharks to chew on.

We've had discussions on fundamentals and advanced techniques, etc.

You uechi type people have this sanchin kata which seems simple to see, but advanced uechi type people insist that it is very advanced, once you get to know it.

Well, here's the deal. I don't know the japanese names but there are a bunch of Japanese, Korean and Okinawan styles who use these "blocks" that are directed downward, to the middle, and upward. I think they might originate from shorin ryu, and beyond.

So what I'm finding is that these movements are extremely powerful and versatile.

There is definitely a huge difference in how they are usually demonstrated in kata, and how they can be actually used using body weight to project force

Maybe something to look at for those who find themselves at a plateau, and are looking for "advanced" karate.

I have come to the conclusion that much of what is taught at the beginner stages in some "styles" are actually those things that are most important for the student to really get into, and understand, if they want to use their body as a weapon.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are these basic movements that are usually only demonstrated in kata and don't have any tactical value in sparring, which have an extremely violent potential, if seen for what they are.

And what they are is not "blocks".

Which isn't to say that they can't be applied to the boogeyman's arm as he jumps out at you from an alley.

More like swinging a baseball bat than trying to "block" an attack.

[Bill Glasheen]

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are these basic movements that are usually only demonstrated in kata and don't have any tactical value in sparring, which have an extremely violent potential, if seen for what they are.

I can't count how many times I've listened to a song in my 40s or 50s and heard sexually suggestive things that completely went over my head when I was a teenager. Rock and roll is for the most part about sex and getting some. But to the kid, (s)he just likes the melody and the beat. Whatever works at the time I guess.

It's been said that when you get in a fight, you'll remember the very first and the very last thing you were taught. I know that to an annoying degree. I remember the very first story (from the Dick and Jane series) that I read. I remember the very first piano piece I played. And yes, I remember the very first kata (Teisha 1) that I was taught.

The first two movements? You're right, fivedragons. I never saw them done in my "sparring dojo." But then one day I was fooling around, and Bam! it hit me. It's a defense and subsequent take-out technique against the most common thing you'll see on the street - the haymaker.

And it isn't two blocks against two bad guys. It's attacking the attack and then attacking the attacker - against ONE person. Changing directions in kata often isn't about fighting a brand new bad guy; it's usually about getting off the line of force and/or getting a better angle on your hapless attacker.

Yep... Good stuff!

- Bill

[IJ]

Bill, can you share the technique in more detail?

[Bill Glasheen]

Teisha 1 starts out like such:

• Face north in neutral stance, with hands down.
• Step NW and do a left "knife hand" in that direction.
• Step NE and do a right "knife hand" in that direction.

Pretty junior stuff, right?



Picture a drunk or incredibly pissed-off opponent to your north. What is an emotionally hijacked and/or drunken person going to do to take you out? They'll throw a gross motor looping haymaker at your head.



The knife hand is NOT a block. It is an attack. Aim the first one (NW) in the fold of the looping arm. When you hit the biceps tendon, it will cause the biceps reflexively to contract. You cannot miss that spot. And even if you do a little, your knife hand will slide right into the fold.

Then when you re-orient to NE, you will be staring right at the triple warmer around their right ear.

Out go the lights!

Check out the two "wrist blocks" in Seichin before you make the first turn. It's the exact same thing. It isn't two opponents; it's attacking the attack and then attacking the attacker. The added bonus in Seichin is the wristy thingie which allows you to grab the person with the left hand and pull them into the right triple warmer attack. The subsequent wristy thingie can be a hawk-chases-sparrow move that sends them head over heels.

- Bill

[Stryke]

Love attack the attack , and even the moving offline but

if you want to cover put your guard up .......

Imagine a chest grab the hand on the chest comes down and shears the arm to the chest , it will collapse them down because your encouraging hyperfunction (the natural way the arm wishes to bend when pulling )

that drops the opponent down and you stick the knife hand in there throat , from there you can simply take them down .

but many applications lots of ways to use mechanics .

[Bill Glasheen]

if you want to cover put your guard up .......

I agree. And if we knew the bad guy would be breaking in the house that night, we'd sleep with the gun under the pillow. However this is the beginning of the form, so you start in a natural stance. There are times when you're just standing and the first sucker punch comes.

There are places in Seisan bunkai where I like people to start hands down in a natural stance. Why? Again, because this is the way you will likely be standing when the poop first hits the rotating propeller. Practicing a transition from that everyday posture is a really good idea.



Along those same lines, it's useful practicing out various scenarios where someone breaks into the home and see if you can get to loaded gun in hand before bad guy gets to you.

Yea, we've practiced that in class! (That's a Rich Castanet scenario drill.)

Are you at all suggesting that the knife hand itself resembles a startle reflex?

- Bill

[Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be]

I don't have my glasses is that Rich?

[Bill Glasheen]

No... It was any dude's natural stance that I could Google off the internet.

- Bill

[Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be]

oh, Ok. That is how wonderful I can see, lol. Now do you feel safe when I am driving?

[Crystal.Sands.McKinney/Be]

Teisha 1 starts out like such:

• Face north in neutral stance, with hands down.
• Step NW and do a left "knife hand" in that direction.
• Step NE and do a right "knife hand" in that direction.

Pretty junior stuff, right?

I love the mouth on the little boy behind him, how intimidating!

[Stryke]

Are you at all suggesting that the knife hand itself resembles a startle reflex?

I`m suggesting if it doesnt your wasting your time ......

I`m actually suggesting pinning one hand to your solar plexus might be the function part thats perhaps often overlooked .

[Bill Glasheen]

I`m actually suggesting pinning one hand to your solar plexus might be the function part thats perhaps often overlooked .

Word. This type of oversight can especially be true in grappling applications.

- Bill

[Stryke]

Absolutely Bill , its a classic Sanchin draw , you guys see that position and have AHA moments I`m sure .

[fivedragons]

Good thread!

Sorry for not knowing Japanese, but here are the "blocks" I was referencing.

He does one which is a hammer fist moving from outside to inside that I didn't include in the three.

That movement shows up in naihanchi.

Again, not a block. Just a movement. The intent is what makes the difference, along with the physical ability to move with speed and power. Reflexes and body mass.

The same movement that could end up as a shuto to the neck can also be expressed as a hammer fist to the adam's apple.

Doesn't matter, as long as it serves the purpose of survival. The same movement could be expressed as a forearm to the outside of the elbow, or whatever happens regarding the infinite possibilities in human conflict, as long as you mean what you do, and you know how to do it well.

There are many styles from different places that teach beginner's kata using these movements in different combinations of stepping and turning, and usually followed with a straight body shot.

Hence, the "block" and then the strike.

Wrong, just a series of strikes.

If you show me someone who knows how to damage a human being with a straight body shot (to the liver for one out of many examples), I'll show you someone who can do the same if not more damage to the liver with that downward "block"

There is a common denominator to these three movements (aside from them all being present in the uechi wa uke in principle). They all represent attacks using the hand, forearm, and/or elbow.

Interesting how you can practice a circle and extrapolate different discrete angles of force on the one hand, and on the other hand you can practice discrete angles of force projection that lead to understanding the force of circular movement.

A couple other movements which are related to this kind of attack would be the straight arm swinging from outside to inside, the downward hammer fist, elbow or forearm, and the straight arm swinging horizontally from inside to outside.

You see this type of thing coming up in various kata over and over without any intention to utilize mass, centrifugal force, body change, targeting to vital areas or most importantly the same intent that is projected when someone practices a straight shot into the body.

Haven't even addressed the gripping, leverage and twisting aspects.

On one hand there is a viewpoint of learning movements that present solutions to other movements, and these have their merits.

On the other hand is a viewpoint of learning how to use the body the same way you would use a knife or gun. In this paradigm, the problem and the solution are the same thing: the bad person's ability to continue to function.

To use an analogy, one wouldn't purchase a handgun and train it's use with the thought of shooting incoming bullets out of the air.

[fivedragons]

I'm an idiot, and I didn't post the clip to illustrate the movements I was talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXddG5g2eME