Mr. Prouty... you are the best my friend...no wonder our great friend, State trooper, Mike Cherven, loved you so much.

He spoke of you very often when in my classes. Went by his grave just today_
_________________
Van Canna

I wonder if Bill Glasheen, who has not posted yet on this thread, would have anyhting to add in the way of getting to the bottom of this, since he is from VA.

As I indicated, the very best evidence is medical records from whatever clinic/hospital the police would have arranged for the victim to be taken.

If we have a positive ID, and it seems there is...then medical information should still be there.

Doctors who treated him might still be around, nurses etc.

The institution where he now resides, must have a complete medical history, or some history that might be relevant to investigators.

A most disgraceful display for sure...like beating on a retarded child. Thank God the audio was cleaned up enough to demonstrate he was no threat to anyone on that day.

Like I said...some jerks invite a beat down in a dojo...but this guy was not one of them.

We still wonder why that scene was filmed to begin with, and why it was placed on the net 25 years later.

Very foolish people...and I wonder how many students remained in that dojo after witnessing that idiocy.
_________________
Van Canna

But back to the civil suit, I am sure that the plaintiff's attorney must have had some evidence of casual relationship between the blows and the resultant injuries, or pursuing a claim for personal injury damages would be pointless.

Also what assetts did the perps have that could be accessed by the plaintiff?

As I mentioned, no insurance policy on risk at the time, if any, would cover such an event.
_________________
Van Canna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRVBi4w-8kY
_________________
Van Canna

I removed all history of dojo challenges and results I wrote of the past as the events of those days might be misunderstood by the ones who weren't there.

One thing is to have your dojo constantly invaded by people looking for a fight and actually attacking the teachers like the pug that came up one night and started swinging at George's head for no reason _ who was forced to defend himself...or the ones who outright punched students in the face on the floor hurting them during a friendly sparring match [with no contact to the face rules]...that necessitated Campbell and other teachers to take action to prevent injuries to their students.

Another thing is to beat upon an innocent, harmless guy, as it is shown in this thread.
_________________
Van Canna

Last edited by Van Canna on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total

Rick posted this on his forum

quote:

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Laird I saw a lady with a black gi with white belt come in and out of the picture.

I also saw a dummy hanging behind the heavy bag.

I thought the TV TV is similar to warnings we shout in our dojo when folks are going to knock over our TV.

Couldn’t stop motion it so I can’t comment about the fake blood but the rest looked pretty real to me up to and including the nasal breathing that goes along with that kind of stomping.

---

Also something else to ponder: I agree that if at all possible, when a troublemaker comes into your dojo, his intent in evidence, maybe it would be best to call the police.

But then again, you call the police, once, twice, three times, soon they will tell you to handle your own damn problems as they are reluctant to get involved in a 'house 'cat fight' _

Then imagine what the police would have to snicker about...

And the challengers themselves would be rolling like pigs in s*hit...." well, they were so scared they called the cops on us"

Lots to ponder.
_________________
Van Canna

Jim Prouty...

As a policeman and dojo owner, trainer, of Great fighters in MMA..lotys of them US Marines...

What is your opinion on this?
_________________
Van Canna

quote:

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Originally posted by Van Canna Mr. Prouty... you are the best my friend...no wonder our great friend, State trooper, Mike Cherven, loved you so much.

He spoke of you very often when in my classes. Went by his grave just today_

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Van Canna Jim Prouty...

As a policeman and dojo owner, trainer, of Great fighters in MMA..lotys of them US Marines...

What is your opinion on this?

---

quote:

---

Hello,

I just finished reading through all the 1000+ posts in this thread, and want to note some things which I think have not been given adequate consideration.

Coldfire's inconsistencies

In post #556 Coldfire says:

Blythe "sent the junior students away and asked only the black belts to remain"

But in post #574 Coldfire says:

"I dont remember the names or jobs of who it was that was in the room aside from myself, my father, blythe, and one of the other students who was my designated sparring partner"

I don't know how everyone else read this, but it seems to me that this is an admission from Coldfire himself that he was in the room the attack took place during the attack.

Furthermore, in post #543 Coldfire says:

"I never said i didnt see it [the attack]. I said i was in the back office when it happened."

This also implies he may well have seen the attack.

The last bit of evidence that Coldfire's account may be inaccurate is that, contrary to Coldfire's claims (quoted above) in post #556, at least one of the people in the room was wearing a white belt!

Look at right around the 5 minute mark in the video, right when Blythe order's KFG's body dragged out. You'll see a person in black clothes with a white belt rush in front of the camera. A few seconds later you see the same person with the white belt dragging KFG out.

Apart from Coldfire's word, is there any evidence that he was 8 years old at the time of the attack and only a green belt? Could he have been older or a blackbelt (or a whitebelt, for that matter)? Can we get some independent verification of Coldfire's age and rank at the time of the attack (and not from an anonymous source connected to Blythe's dojo, who may have some vested interest in distorting the truth)?

Questions to Coldfire

1 - Did you see the attack as it took place?

2 - Do you know who besides Blythe and your father was in the room during the attack in question?

3 - Did the back office have a view of the room where the attack took place?

4 - Did you see the video of the attack in question before it appeared on the internet?

5 - Did you see videos of any other attacks committed by Blythe or anyone he was associated with?

6 - Do you know if there were other such videos or other similar attacks that Blythe or his associates participated in?

In post #427 you claim:

"Yes he [the victim of the attack] did survive and he was taken out of the dumpster the next day by the police. He was then arrested for other incidents he was involved in around the area."

7 - How do you know this?

8 - Did someone tell you this happened or did you see it happen?

9 - If someone told you, who was it?

In post #432 you say "he [the victim of the attack] told the police he didnt want to press charges"

10 - Who told you, or did you witness this yourself?

Mr Zingg

Bullshido user FlowWithTheTao says:

"Mr. Zingg should be taken at his word and left alone. He has nothing to do with this."

Why should Mr. Zingg be taken at his word? Why should anyone involved in any way with Blythe or Dennis be taken at their word?

Do you have any proof that Zingg had nothing to do with this?

In fact, is there any proof (other than Zingg's word) that Zingg left Blythe's dojo before this attack took place?

Questions for Mr. Zingg and anyone else associated with Blythe

1 - Did the back office have a view of the room where the attack took place?

2 - Did you see the attack or know anyone who was present in Blythe's dojo at the time of the attack?

3 - Did you see the video of the attack in question before it appeared on the internet?

4 - Did you see videos of any other attacks committed by Blythe or anyone he was associated with?

5 - Do you know if there were other such videos or other similar attacks that Blythe or his associates participated in?

People in the room

In some post I can't find right now, War Wheel said some of his anonymous sources said that the other people in the room where the attack took place were martial arts instructors from other dojos.

I have a difficult time believing this because when Dennis brusquely says "Speak up! Y'all hear sensei talkin' to y'all!" he's clearly addressing people inferior to him in rank, and people who he has authority over. These people could not possibly be martial arts instructors from other dojos.

There is further evidence of this later in the tape. Right after the fight ends, Blythe orders:

"Drag him out the back door. Drag him out the back door. Drag him out the back door. Take that, get that... uh... I want the sand" (I think it is "sand", by the way, not "sash")

Blythe is also clearly talking to people he has authority over, and KFG is dragged out by two people wearing black clothes, neither of which were Blythe himself (who was still in the foreground as KFG was dragged out), nor is one of those people Dennis (who is also in the foreground, and wears white clothes).

Along with the fact that one of the people dragging KFG out seems to be wearing a white or other light-colored belt, it seems that at least two of the people in the room were Blythe's students, of lesser rank and/or seniority than Dennis.

From watching the video, these are the people I spotted in the room:

- BJB himself
- the attacker (Dennis)
- the victim ("Kung Fu Guy")
- 1 camera person
- 2 people dressed in black, who carried out the victim when ordered. One of them wore a light-colored belt.
- 1 person at the 4'35 minute mark. A white man wearing a rolled-up light blue shirt, who pushes KFG back in to Dennis. Only the upper half of this person's body is visible in the video.
- 1 person at the 5'45" minute mark, wearing light blue jeans and tan shoes. Only one leg of this person is visible.

The last two of these are probably one and the same person, and is really the only possible candidate for being an instructor from another dojo, unless we count the camera person him/herself.


Maybe the attack did not take place in 1984

What evidence, other than Blythe's word is there that this attack took place in 1984?

In post #10 the Bullshido user known as littleoldme says "the footage was shot on 13th December 1984". What evidence does he have for this being the case?

Right now, much of the search for the victim assumes that the attack took place in December of 1984, so only records from around that time are being searched.

But perhaps it really happened earlier, or later.

In the video, the people (especially KFG himself) are wearing relatively wide bell bottoms, which was most fashionable in the 1970's. So that indicates the attack may have taken place before 1984. Of course, this is not solid proof, but it's something to consider.

Was this a gay bashing?

4tk8de mentioned some good points:

Quote:
My point is, if we want to identify Kung Fu guy, we should consider the possibility that he had a professional dancing or ballet training. In the video he shows in my opinion a body stance like a ballet-dancer. (i.e. as he shows Dennis how to stand for the demonstration.)

Blythe and his group of retarded redneck thugs may even have considered John Travolta a little "gay" in their eye's and would have ambushed and assaulted him in the same way.
It may well be that KFG was actually homosexual, or at least have seemed that way by Blythe and his lackeys. One of the other of Blythe's videos was of him giving instructions to new blackbelts, where Blythe went on a rant about homosexuals ("fags") and made it clear that he would beat up his own students if he discovered they were homosexuals.

This opens up the possibility that the attack against KFG was based on actual or perceived sexual orientation. In other words, this could have been a gay bashing incident.

To follow up on this possibility, it may be worthwhile to contact gay rights groups in the area, or other groups which may know someone who was part of the gay community there around 1984. Ask them if they remembered Blythe's dojo, or any gay bashings of young black men that took place around that time.


Be careful when deciding that a given person could not be the victim of this attack.

Pyrenus in post #931 says C. Anderson can be excluded from the list because he has no tiger tattoo.

In my opinion, we should not assume that just because someone **says** he has no tiger tattoo that they're not the victim.

First, even though the victim said he had a tiger tattoo, maybe he didn't. If he was delusional, he may have imagined having one when he really didn't (or even not having one when he actually does).

Second, the victim may not want to draw attention to himself, for whatever reason. He may also not know of this investigation, so may not realize that it would be to his benefit to reveal himself.

The final thing I'd like to advise in regards to this is that the regulars think twice before taking at face value claims by new users, unless those claims can be substantiated in some way. It is far too easy for Blythe, Dennis, or someone else either involved in their crimes or interested in absolving them, to simply create a Bullshido account and (for example) claim that such and such a person couldn't possibly be the victim, or otherwise try to misdirect or delay the investigation.

Of course, I realize that I'm a newbie myself. So you should think twice before taking my claims at face value. But I think I've tried hard to substantiate any claims I make, and give my reasons for anything I say.

KFG's martial arts skills

Please notice that the point where KFG started really doing poorly in the fight was when Dennis grabbed his tie and used the tie to control KFG's movement and limit the distance between himself and KFG.

KFG seemed to do better at a distance. This may have been because KFG was clearly taller than Dennis, and so likely had a longer reach.

I think were it not for KFG's tie (and his apprent lack of enthusiasm for fighting at all), he may well have won the fight.

When the second part of the video was filmed

Some people have said they believe the second part of the video (which has BJB commenting on KFG's blood trail inside and outside the dojo) was filmed on the following day.

I don't believe this for a second. Even were Blythe so full of hubris to believe he could let a trail of blood stain his dojo floor overnight without being caught, I just can't see him leaving that much fresh blood on his dojo door (clear evidence that a crime had been committed) for a day.

No, I think it's clear he wanted the blood cleaned up. And that's why he demanded "the sand" right after the attack was over. And while his lackeys were throwing out KFG's body and getting the sand, BJB filmed the blood trail as a trophy.

Some other speculation

From the nonchalant way in which the attackers acted in that video, the immediate efficiency with which they dragged the victim out of the dojo (not even needing to ask what they should do with him once he was out), and the fact that it was taped, it may be surmised that what happened on that night was not an extraordinary occurance. In other words, they may very well have done this before.

There may or may not have been other, similar tapes. If there were, now that this story has caught the kind of attention it has, Blythe has no doubt destroyed all the tapes he owns. However, there may be copies in the hands of other people who had access to the tapes. I think it is likely that if there were tapes, Blythe showed them to others over the years, to brag about his exploits. One of the people who'd seen the tapes may have copied them. Hopefully the police will follow up on this possibility.

But even if there were no tapes, there is something that could be done. It may be possible to track down others of Blythe's victims who survived. Or, if not, possibly their family members or others who knew of the attacks.

The search should be expanded to auto parts stores around the area. Some of the people working there may have worked or known someone who worked in auto parts stores during that time.

In any event, it's clear that Blythe's dojo was infamous in the area. In the video where Blythe gives instructions to his new blackbelts, he says, "We're noted out there as being kind off [points to his head] up here. We're noted as being not your sanest school around. And that's why a lot of people don't come here to school." Also, in Blythe's own description of the tape, he indicates that the NAPA guys knew that Blythe was not a man to be messed with. So it may be worth assuming Blythe's dojo was relatively well known in the area, and from his words, demeaner, and actions, it may be that he had a lot of enemies. So tracking down people who knew Blythe, knew of him, or knew who his victims or associates were may provide more clues. Ideally, all of these people would be interviewed and the results of the interviews published here or sent to the police/media.

This is an area where help from the locals would be great for getting the initial leads. However, some of these people who were around around the time of the attack and knew of it or Blythe's other crimes may have left, in which case interviewing them may require help from others in other parts of the country or the world.

Other people who might be worth searching for are Dennis' students and other acquaintances. It is not unlikely that Dennis continued to be violent after he was no longer part of Blythe's dojo. So Dennis may have carried out similar attacks that his students or acquaintances might be aware of.

Videotape age

Does anyone know of any videotape or film experts who may be able to gauge the age of the video from watching it? It's possible that it was made on equipment that wasn't even available in 1984.

On asking newbies to read the whole thread

This thread is over 1,000 posts long. It took me over 13 hours to read it! Asking every newbie to devote that much time to reading a single thread is completely unrealistic. Even if every newbie had the best intentions, they may simply not have that kind of time to devote to reading a single thread.

It would be much more helpful to have point newbies to a one-post summary of everything known, alleged, or suggested so far.

Ok. That's all I've got for now.
Last edited by noosphere; Today at 06:27 PM.

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Very interesting, Jim...this case is now 'cooking' and sooner or later someone who was there will step forward with the truth.

One thing I don't understand is ...where is the victim and whom does he talk to?

There must be a way to access his medical records following the injury. They will tell the real story.
_________________
Van Canna

quote:

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Originally posted by Kuma-de

quote:

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Originally posted by Van Canna Mr. Prouty... you are the best my friend...no wonder our great friend, State trooper, Mike Cherven, loved you so much.

He spoke of you very often when in my classes. Went by his grave just today_

---

Thanks Van, I am humbled. I pray for him and his family all the time.

~JP

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Here are some recent articles and threads:

http://tinyurl.com/nbq6y8


[quote]This is being followed over at Something Awful and a poster there has just commented, claiming to know many of the people involved.

Anyway, the interesting part of what she wrote was... "the victim supposedly ended up at the Western State Mental Hospital in Staunton, VA after the assault."

I hope that comes in handy to the investigation.

Her post is on this page of the thread...

http://tinyurl.com/mm9vpu

The whole store, yet it mistakes that he was killed:

http://tinyurl.com/nr2dqg
_________________
Jim Prouty
New England Budo Center

Dear Canna sensei

quote:

---

Just a few thoughts...

1. The video is poor quality, even the MP4 download is not very clear.
What we think we see and what was really there may not agree.

2. KFG might have been a member of a "Karate (or Kung Fu) for Christ" dojo
connected with a local church. Sort of a Christian MA cult dojo promoting
karate as condoned and allowed by Christ. You can still find them if you
type that into Google. Symbols for their brand of MA might well have been
chosen from tiger, dragon, etc. If a deeply-believing born-again Christian
is promoted, they might well teach that his promotion was "through Christ".

Such a deeply-religious person might take that as a promotion by Christ
himself. After all, if you are a Christian and you go to church, who do you
say you speak to? And no one calls you crazy... So he may not have been
"mentally challenged" but just deeply religious, and though he was
"witnessing for Christ" through his karate performance. I wonder if there
may have been a "Karate/KF For Christ" church-connected dojo in the area at
the time.

3. KFG definitely tells that he might perform what they call in karate a
"kata", not a "form". He may have learned a mixture of KF and karate,
though his fighting performance seemed more Chinese-based than Okinawan or
Japanese.

4. Tiger tattoo may have been there, maybe not. Maybe it was one of those
water-based removable types that kids like to use; KFG puts it on when he
feels KF-ish and washes it off when he goes home. For ID purposes it may
not exist, having been washed off.

5. About the woman wearing the straw hat with rope on top who is suspended
above the floor - aw, c'mon. What kind of sense does that make? Does
anyone routinely have ladies just hanging around, suspended above the floor
of the dojo?

If so, please comment... It is an Asian-style dummy with a
mask on, in some sort of KF or Samurai costume. It's still hanging there
when BJB takes on the guided tour of the blood trail. I think the version
of the video described was a poor copy, probably the .flv copy and not the
higher-quality MP4.

6. The guy with the smoke and drink. I don't see a cigarette in his mouth,
but I do see something in his hand. Could be a cup, could be a card or
folded piece of paper. What possible bearing does this have on what's going
on anyway? None as far as I can see, other than he pushes KFG back into the
fight.

7. In the higher-quality MP4 video I see no blood capsule, just shadow as
the hand is curled in a limp position.

8. In the cleaned-up audio, I feel sure BJB says to get the red sash, he
wants his sash. Not red sand. Red sash. I hear an "sh" at the end of the
word. In some dojo, you supposedly "win" the other guys belt or sash when
you beat the crap out of him.

Whether KFG was actually wearing it at the
time or not, the remark refers to KFG's loss of the fight and BJB's (or
Dennis's?) subsequent "win" of the coveted "red sash". Besides, why would
he ask for his "red sand"?

9. We have only BJB's word that KFG was causing trouble around the mall or
shopping center earlier in the day. That might well have been a plant to
justify the beating - we don't really know how KFG got into the dojo. He
may have been lured in or openly invited. He seemed respectful enough, as
if he felt he had nothing to fear (so maybe invited?).

10. In the lecture video, BJB expresses a degree of homophobia and
threatens violence if he were to find out one of the students was actually
homosexual. We've witnessed this kind of insecurity before, yes? Could
this be a vehement expression of denial regarding ambivalent feelings in a
case of suppressed homosexuality?

Of course, I could be all wrong; it is not a good quality video and these
are just my interpretations of what I see and hear.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Van Canna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRVBi4w-8kY

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quote:

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"This is a video clip of one of Blythe's lectures in which he tells his students that they can do whatever they want in the dojo and nobody can stop them.

Apparently his local cops just love him and won't interfere with his violent pastimes.

At least this this is what he claims when he made the video in the 1980s.

Hopefully things are different now.

I will upload more of Blythe's disturbing and incriminating videos over time, when the time is right"

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