Stalking

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 6:00 pm

Can anyone offere any suggestions with regard to how one should deal with stalking? When unwanted attention becomes stalking?

Books, insights, anything would be helpful. Thanks

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 7:02 pm

Mary,

Start with:
http://www.ncvc.org/SPECIAL/stalking.htm

http://www.hodacvrc.org/stalking.htm

------------------
Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited March 21, 2001).]

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 7:10 pm

Thanks Van. Looks like I have some heavy reading to do.

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 7:59 pm

Here's what's going on.

Every day when I go to work I walk through two other buildings to get to my office building. These are connected by a series of closed glass pedways and escalators. Monday morning I noticed a man sitting on a bench in the first building. It seemed odd at the time because it was 8:15 in the morning and people were walking to get to work. He was just sitting there. Dressed in casual clothing. Watching people go by. Tuesday morning the same thing. He was sitting there watching people walk by.

This morning as I came in the first building he was standing at the entrance. As I walked by he said "good morning". I made eye contact (no smile, and about a 500 yard stare - not quite up to 1000 yards yet!

) and said "morning" back and kept walking. He started walking behind me and said "nice day isn't it?" I said "yup" without turning around and kept walking I noted what he was was wearing, and put a general description "on file" in the back of my mind. Mid-50's, grey balding hair, glasses, 5'10", approximately 180 lbs., dirty red ski jacket, dark grey work pants, black running shoes.

I continued along through the pedway system and the next thing I know he is walking beside me. I slowed down thinking he wanted to pass - he slowed down. I sped up thinking I would out-walk him, he sped up. He walked in the middle of the pedway which forced me to walk to the side. There were no other people close to us. I looked straight ahead (like I was on a mission) - he kept looking at me. I got on the escalator, he got on right behind me and I mean RIGHT behind me. It was extremely uncomfortable to have someone invade my space like that.

When I got to the bottom I ducked into the coffee shop and he stood out in the hallway before going into a little store next door. When I noticed he wasn't looking, I left.

I have told a few of the women in my office (so they can keep a lookout for him). Should I confront him? Has he done anything other than make me feel uncomfortable? Is that enough for me to get "verbal" with him?

Jcseer · Post by **Jcseer** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 8:25 pm

1. Change your morning routine. If two or more ways into work, take those on alternating days.

2. I don't know if this will work for you, but I've talked to many women it has worked for. Do something to get other peoples' attention. And you definitely should have gotten verbal when he invaded your personal space.

3. If it happens again, notify your employer, and they can have security or police check it out.

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 8:36 pm

Jsceer - routine will be changed tomorrow. Thanks.

I will certainly become verbal if this happens again (unlike a lot of women, I have absolutely no problem creating a scene

) and yes, there are "security" people on-site so I can go to them.

My first thought was that I was blowing this out of proportion this morning and that he really didn't do anything wrong...all he did was talk to me, walk close to me and get on an escalator behind me...I wonder how many people ignore things like this.

Jcseer · Post by **Jcseer** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 8:40 pm

If you were blowing it out of proportion, you wouldn't have thought about it the way you did at the time. Trust your instincts. That the guy waited outside the coffee shop even temporarily speaks volumes.

NEVER blow it off.

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 8:56 pm

"If you were blowing it out of proportion, you wouldn't have thought about it the way you did at the time. Trust your instincts. That the guy waited outside the coffee shop even temporarily speaks volumes.

NEVER blow it off."

Here, here! Listen to the man (or woman...I'm honestly not sure...)

If your intuition told you something is wrong, trust that, and go with it. Don't blow this guy off.

It costs you nothing to confront him in a public place...if he's really innocent, he'll appear quite surprised. If he's not...it'll be pretty damn obvious.

My .002...

------------------
Jake Steinmann
PDR Team
www.tonyblauer.com

student · Post by **student** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:07 pm

From the little I've gleaned about Canadian laws toward self-defense, it would appear that the only things you're allowed to carry are your keys between your fingers - so you can give them to your assailant and save him the trouble of breaking a window to get in your home and giving him a ride home therefrom.

Mary, dear, a suggestion:

Get a disposable camera. If you see him following you again (especially in a public place), face him and take his picture, several times.

"Don't follow me again. I'm taking these to the police."

He doesn't want to be identified and caught.

student

david · Post by **david** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:15 pm

Mary,

Joining in on the chorus to take this seriously and trust your instincts!

- DO MAKE A REPORT TO SECURITY TO GET IT ON RECORD IN CASE ANYTHING SHOULD HAPPEN WITH YOU OR ANYONE ELSE. This also alerts security to keep an eye out as well.

- Do confront him about following you if he should appear and do again what he did. ("Sir, I feel like you're following me and I don't like it!") If he is not stalking you, he may be offended but he'll disappear. If he is stalking you, he may be dissuaded. If he reappears dispite a verbal confrontation, HE IS STALKING YOU.

- YES. Vary your routine. If shows up during varying routines, again, he is very like STALKING YOU, as opposed to just checking out possible victims of his unwarranted attention.

- Arrange to go to work with some else for a period. If he appears, you have another witness and another description to corroborate yours.

- If he shows up again, do alert security again and the police.

- If your moral and mindset allow, keep something readily available in the pocket (better with your hand on it).

Take care,
david

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:22 pm

Thanks guys, I will keep my eyes open. There are security cameras in the buildings and pedways - if I see him again I will report him. David I usually keep my keys in my pockets but never my hands. If I had been thinking more clearly today I would have taken a mighty step backwards while on the escalator (perhaps landing on a foot).

"Oops...sorry" Security in our office buildings are VERY good and I have seen more than one person "escorted" away on occasion. I will let you know if anything else develops.

david · Post by **david** » Wed Mar 21, 2001 11:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

I usually keep my keys in my pockets but never my hands.

Mary, I am shocked, shocked... that someone working in a law firm does not have a metal Cross or Parker pen ready to do business anytime.

BTW, falling down or getting knocked accidentally down metal escalator is really nasty "business" too.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

My first thought was that I was blowing this out of proportion this morning and that he really didn't do anything wrong...all he did was talk to me, walk close to me and get on an escalator behind me...I wonder how many people ignore things like this.

A lot of folks do ignore this initial interview... And it is an interview when someone clearly violates one's personal space when there is no mitigating circumstances warranting that (like a crowed hallway, subway, etc.) Realize that the boundaries of personal space expands and contracts according to environmental factors. In a relatively uncrowded situation, even in a constricted space, folks will automatically fall back or surge forward to create/give personal space.

Keep us posted.

david

Lori · Post by **Lori** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 2:27 am

Mary-san,

Nice to see you here again! I've really missed your input here! I'm glad you brought up such a serious subject - and it looks as if you've gotten most excellent and expert advice. I can only second all that has been said... especially the making a report to building security. No - he may not have done anything overtly "wrong" in the eyes of the law - but to have his actions, description and the incident on record can help not only avert something worse from happening - but also assist in his apprehension if something does. There are way too many incidences of security cameras not providing enough information or a good enough description - or missing something crucial. Get it on record - and try not to feel like you are over-reacting. I just had this same discussion with my daughter the other day at the mall. I allowed her and my son to hang out there for a couple hours while I got some work done nearby - soon she called me to let me know that a young adult male kept approaching her and saying things like "hey sexy" - which she ignored and continued walking. I immediately wanted to notify mall security and she objected that it seemed to be over-reacting... after a bit more discussion about the number of abductions at malls - some self-examination on her part made her realize that SHE was not in the wrong here - and simply reporting someone who is "coming in on her space" was not that big an issue. What I found interesting to note was her discomfort at reporting this - and I can understand it myself - somehow I believe we are conditioned as women/females to "let things go." How many cat calls do we endure - ribald comments - sleazy invitations from predators or would-be predators - and just "let them go" because of this conditioning? So what does this tell the would-be predator? Either 1) we're scared - exactly where he wants us or 2) he hasn't got a reaction yet and has to try harder.

That is also why I favor a more confrontational approach (such as David recommends telling him you don't like his actions) if your intuition lets you.

I saw an interview by deBecker once where he was talking about this kind of conditioning (to let things go) in regards to riding an elevator in a parking garage I believe. The door opens, there's a nicely dressed man in a business suit inside - the woman feels uncomfortable and immediatley chides herself for "over-reacting" and enters the elevator. DeBecker asks: what is the "stupider" response - to rely on some unconcious sense of fear telling you that something isn't "right" - and wait maybe what - two minutes - for the next elevator? OR to enter a soundproof metal box that can be stopped between floors and communication cut off from the world with a perfect stranger that has already made you nervous?

The Gift of Fear indeed - we've all got that gift - and yet we try so hard to squelch the volume! Ignoring signals that may well - and probably already have - saved our lives in some instances.

So yes - I second the advice to make a report - first thing in the morning. ALSO to change your morning routine. Definitely don't blow it off. Something has kept this incident in your mind - even to the point of looking for other opinions. Trust your instinct. And something else that I didn't read above - but I might have missed is to VARY YOUR ROUTINE ON THE WAY HOME!!!! Leave at different times if you can - a few minutes later one day - earlier the next. Keep an eye out for any car that is behind you for more than two turns after the parking lot. Go through a drive through on the way home - even if you don't buy anything. I have used that one before when I was followed once by a car that even stayed behind me in residential side streets. I drove around for an extra few miles - only eventually backtracking home when I was certain the car was long gone in the other direction.

There are frightening incidents of stalkers following very similar behaviour to what you describe in your post - and then following discreetly for a few days to find out where the intended victim lives - then returning when they are at work to case the house/apartment and find a way in - faking deliveries using your name and place of employment - anything they can garner from watching you - with serious and sometimes fatal results.

Be careful - be aware - you already are and I salute you. Move from condition yellow to condition orange (alert awareness to a prepared possible response) and quite honestly - after meeting you and seeing your "karate spirit" even in the brief time I did at Winterfest - I pity the idiot who wants to take you on!

Seriously also though - empty hand is no match for a gun or other weapon - and even expert martial artist find themselves in dangerous or worse situations - so please be careful and keep us posted!

Stay safe!

------------------
Lori
Forum Recommended/Reviewed Books

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 3:47 am

Mary,

I am a newcomer to the forum as well as Uechi-Ryu, but I would like to pass on some thoughts in regards to this situation.

Question: If this person is watching or "stalking" you, how many other women or children could he be doing this to?

With that in mind, I concur completely with David and Lori as to filing an official report in regards to what has occurred. Who is to say that you spooked him and he has moved on to someone else. Or he may return and confront you. Sounds as though that could be a big mistake on his part ---- but nonetheless a very dangerous situation given a weapon or the "right" conditions.

Filing a report will begin a trail that could result in the correct actions taken by local law enforcement. Too often a situation such as this ends with a law enforcement officer asking someone, "why didnt you report it?", and the "stalker" walking away with a slap on the wrist.

By filing a report, you could be ensuring a slimeball gets exactly what he deserves if he finds the "right" victim.

Good luck Mary!

Mark

david · Post by **david** » Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:28 am

One of my staff person was being stalked by a stranger a couple years back. First it was just his prescence near the work place. Then he started to show up at different places on her route. He also became increasingly verbal and confrontive. I had other staff assigned to follow her from the stations at the beginning of work and to walk her back after work. Somewhere after the second or third confrontation, we helped her make a report to the police (she was reluctant to do this. Why? (shrug) ) Anyway, during the period she was being trailed by one of our staff, the guy was spotted again by her once but didn't come near her. The detective (actually, a cousin of mine) even trailed her on several occaisons and at one point drove around the area with her to see if they can spot the stalker. He never spotted anyone. He was frustrated and, in confidence, asked me if I thought there is any chance the woman was making the situation up. I told him I didn't think so and that I would rather be safe than sorry afterwards. He said, he would stick with it. Later on, the staff person said she was again confronted by the guy in the train station when she was alone. According to her, the guy became really verbally violent and was close to her. She reported that she struck the guy and put a big scratch across his face and got out of the station. I reported it immediately to the detective who then came down and took another statement. The detective was entirely sympathetic. The guy never appeared again though we had the staff followed by other staff and the detective for awhile afterwards.

The above situation was entirely different from another staff person who was stalked by her ex-boyfriend that we encountered in the early 80's. We weren't sure what to do as the issue of domestic violence and stalking was not something we were familiar with. In fact, the unit in which the staff worked kept the situation to themselves. At one point, the ex boyfriend came in to the faciity and they rushed her to hide in another part of the building. At that point, I wasn't aware of what the exact situation was but knew something was up by the tension of the unit staff when the ex boyfriend came in. He asked where the staff was and was told she was not at work. I just went along. The guy left and the staff returned. She was in tears. Evidently, the boyfriend had been violent and even threaten her life and her family's. I was apprised of the situation. Being young, inexperienced and with no sense of how to handle such a situation, I found myself agitated and angry. Frankly, I resolved to kick the guy's butt next time he showed up and follow up with more if need be. (Yup. Like I said, I was VERY young.) Anyway, the next week, the young woman was sent to live with relatives in Texas. The guy was told the family members that the woman had left the state. He stalked the family for bit and finally gave up (until his next girlfriend, I am sure...) The good news is that woman has long since established a new life, is married and has a family. She drops card to us every so often.

david