Women & Adrenaline Rush II

david · Post by **david** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 1:01 am

It's gotta be there, ASAP, when needed...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
By Globe Staff, 3/1/2002

OW, N.H.

Woman lifts van to aid husband

A Bow man is recovering after his wife used superhero-strength to lift a van that had rolled on top of him. ''I don't know how I did it,'' said Donna Stilwell. ''I just lifted. It didn't feel that heavy.'' Richard Stilwell was working under the van in his driveway on a Sunday when the linkage slipped and the vehicle rolled onto him. Enter Donna - all 110 pounds of her. She hooked her hands under the wheel well and lifted the full-sized van's frame four to five inches, enough for her husband to roll out. Richard suffered a broken arm, bruises and tire mark abrasions. Donna attempted to lift the van again on Wednesday for a reporter. She couldn't budge it even half an inch. (AP)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

david

Tony-San · Post by **Tony-San** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 1:45 am

David,

I don't get it! How is this possible if women are weaker then men? The only thing that I can figure is that when it really MATTERED, she left her "Stuff" at the door and tapped into her REAL self! The self that is neither HE or SHE....

Tony

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 2:05 am

Where did WAAR I go?

david · Post by **david** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 10:31 pm

Dana,

I actually saw a TV interview of this woman. When the truck fell on her husband, she was in the house. He screamd for her help when the van started moving and dragging him a bit down the driveway. I am sure the adrenaline was already beginning pump when she came out the house. However, it probably didn't go into a full dump until when she tried something and apparently made have made it worse -- or the husband knowing she was there became more panicked and inpatient for a resolution. He shouted, "YOU HAVE TO GET THIS VAN OFF ME!!!!" She then grabbed the wheel well and just lifted...

So there was definitely an incremental as needed basis thing going on.

My thread is also misleading. Sudden noise and/or movement will send a noticable injection of adrenaline into my system but it's rarely a larger dump unless the sudden event turns out to be something truly of concern. Usually, I'll turn to the attention getter and figure it out. It's usually after the assessment that I begin to notice there some adrenaline had gotten pumped into my system. So, again, there seems to be an incremental process based on what may be percieved (consciously and unconciously) as needed.

david

PS. I would also say some precipitating stimuli can induced a quicker/greater adrenaline rush, e.g. loud sharp noises that sound like gunshots. The discussion of "anchors" by AlanL takes on more significance. I was present in front of a restaurant targeted by a driveby shooter and have also witnessed gunplay. I hunt as well. So, loud noise that sound like gunfire... Well, I have actually ducked/cringed low in response to such aural stimuli.

[This message has been edited by david (edited March 02, 2002).]

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 5:00 am

On the other adrenaline thread (returning soon to a forum near you)

I mentioned that it might be possible that we have different adrenaline responses to different levels of perceived danger.

I wonder if it's been recorded what will bring on a "full dump" as in this article or as David talked about on Van's forum -- vs. what might bring on a slower release of adrenaline into the system?

Dana

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:31 pm

It seems like guys in class get way more jazzed much more quickly than I in drills like free sparring, pre-arranged sparring, and conditioning.

I mean, I'm having fun, focused, training with intensity -- but if you stay at this level long enough, guys get jazzed. I think it happens particularly quickly in free sparring. There are many times I wish they had a way of holding off because when they get cranked up they seem to have a harder time working on combinations and keeping their center.

Usually this happens to women in class after they've taken a really hard crack or if they get mad. But guys seem to be able to just slip into a level of adrenaline that I need much more of a reason than pre-arranged kumite to reach. Even when I watch the clip online of the bulletmen training with women - they don't seem to be in the throes of a full-on adrenaline dump. Of course, they only picked the pretty clips to put online - it would be nice to see some clips of women freezing up and others of them just turning away and denying the bulletman attacker.

When I try to access adrenaline all I end up doing is frowning. Can some of you folks sort of "make" an adrenaline release happen?

Dana

david · Post by **david** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:33 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

It seems like guys in class get way more jazzed much more quickly than I in drills like free sparring, pre-arranged sparring, and conditioning.

Honestly, I don't get "jazzed" (or adrenalized) in sparring, even with head contact allowed. Probably because I know it's NOT life and death and just training, albeit on the hard side. Even competitions don't get me that jazzed for the same reasons.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

When I try to access adrenaline all I end up doing is frowning. Can some of you folks sort of "make" an adrenaline release happen?

I not sure one can make oneself fully adrenalized unless there's a conscious (or unconscious "trigger") perception that one's self is on the line. Even when one works up for a competition and puts the emotional/psychological self on the line, the adrenaline rarely comes on as strong or as quickly as in real life situation. At the least this is my experience of it.

david

david · Post by **david** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:46 pm

Real life experiences kick in and affect how we perceived training and thus affect the level of adrenalization.

For example, I sent my youngest son, 9 years old, to Model Mugging for two full day sessions. He was the youngest of the group. Parents were not allowed to stay for most of the class -- I think again to take away psychological crutches and comfort.

My son, according to the instructors, did better than the majority in the class in terms of being able to react. The instructors used a lot of foul language and aggressive moves to adrenalized the kids. Apparently, a lot of kids frozed initially. My son said he had no problem planting a groin kick and punching away at the bulletman.

The difference, perhaps, is that he had to deal with bullies at school. Secondly, he spars with me at home, empty hand and with sticks, and is used to taking some hits. I think he probably perceived the Model Mugging scenario more as "training" compared to the other kids.

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited March 04, 2002).]

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 6:56 pm

hmmmm.....veeeerrrry tempting.
The only reason I can't say yes is because I might be on travel. I should know in the next 2 weeks -- then I'll give you a firm answer either way.

Actually I have a question about the bulletman training. As you know uechi is built to strike specific places with specific techniques that bring about a good deal of pain for the person being hit. Many of those - a shoken to the eye or throat, a bushiken to the side of the jaw etc are made un-usable with the bulletman helmet. I've paid attention to the "you lose all fine motor coordination" conversations and I just wonder....what technqiues would come out when there was no padding in the way to obscure the target.

I did the first stage "night of the living dead drill" of Mr. Blauer's as posted by Rick Wilson. Most of the techniques that came out of me were things like bushiken strikes to the throat, elbows to the jaw, throws, and shokens to the throat.

I believe the experience of doing the fast defense set of techniques under adrenaline is a very very valid training to do. It will be fascinating to observe how I'd respond.

ramble, ramble, ramble,
Dana

AlanL · Post by **AlanL** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 12:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dana Sheets:

Actually I have a question about the bulletman training. As you know uechi is built to strike specific places with specific techniques that bring about a good deal of pain for the person being hit. Many of those - a shoken to the eye or throat, a bushiken to the side of the jaw etc are made un-usable with the bulletman helmet. I've paid attention to the "you lose all fine motor coordination" conversations and I just wonder....what technqiues would come out when there was no padding in the way to obscure the target.

Dana<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought about the same things. The bulletman wouldn't react to some of our Uechi strikes based on all the padding. So I really focused on hitting with as much explosive power as possible using palm heel, closed fist, elbows and knee strikes.

But after you do the training your best to judge for yourself if you could have effectively thrown the strikes you describe. Uechi principles adapt very easily to this training. You can try anything you wish on the bulletman. They won't go down until you've really make some solid contact.

If you can't make this one, they have classes every month. Let me know and I'll set it up for you and get you the details.

Alan Lowell

AlanL · Post by **AlanL** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 5:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dana Sheets:
Even when I watch the clip online of the bulletmen training with women - they don't seem to be in the throes of a full-on adrenaline dump. Of course, they only picked the pretty clips to put online - it would be nice to see some clips of women freezing up and others of them just turning away and denying the bulletman attacker.

When I try to access adrenaline all I end up doing is frowning. Can some of you folks sort of "make" an adrenaline release happen?

Dana <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Dana,

On 4/6 there will be a FAST Defense class given at the dojo where I have my Uechi classes. Quakertown PA is only about 3 hours from DC, so let me know if you would be interested. Guaranteed to get your adrenaline pumping. D:

Online clips are very mellow.

Alan

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:11 pm

So in the other adrenaline thread, Ian had mentioned that we should try and consider why a difference in "rate of adreninaline dump" would exist between men and women.

If it actually does, my speclation was about the idea that the MEN were needed to protect against dangerous attacks -- such as other men or beasts, while the WOMEN during such attacks would need to keep their heads clear a little while longer in order to gather up the children and run for it. At which point the WOMAN would need adrenaline over a longer period of time in order to sustain a flight with children.

And David - I got to thinking about what I said about guys getting an adrenaline dump in sparring. It's not all the guys at my school either. It's usually the underbelts and shodans. After shodan guys seems to chill out a bit in sparring. But most of them take until shodan to realize that sparring class, usually, is not life or death.

But guys to get fiestier sooner than the women folk in sparring class. With a notable execption - we just had a women who's in college join our school. She was a national junior kata champion in her youth -- she get's as fiesty as anybody else on the floor. It's wonderful to see.

Dana

Tony-San · Post by **Tony-San** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:54 pm

That is the thing right there Dana... it's not about Male or Female, it's about who can get to "it" first. Males have less obstacles to overcome (due to social conditioning tactics) so it seems as though they tap into "it" much easier. This Karate Girl has less obstacles then most Women so she can hang with the big dogs...

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:05 pm

Is this dog big enough?

------------------
Van Canna

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:06 pm

Tony - I agree 100%.

So what I'm trying to highlight is the idea that if you can help women in the beginning - to get through the social conditioning barriers arounding fighting - then in the end you're going to end up with some fierce fighters.

It you're totaly unsympathetic or unaware of the process women are going through - then you won't be able to help them out, they won't be able to help themselves out because they're not aware of what's really going on either -- and in the end they'll drop out.

Since one if my goals is to encourage more women to train then one of my secondary goals ends up being trying to help folks who are already in the Martial Arts find ways to be more welcoming to and supportive of new female students.

Dana