When I first went to grammar school in the sixties, my teachers instructed us that we should address our parents as "sir" and "ma'am". This was the WWII generation teaching their children (in the south I might add), and there was a proper way that children should act. So I would go home and say "Yes ma'a,m" to my mom. She was pissed. She grew up as a poor girl in wealthy Greenwich Conneticut, and rose to valedictorian of her high school class. Teaching her kids this type of deference did not sit well with her. Courteous, yes. Polite, yes. Studious, yes. Obedient, yes. But she would not have her children addressing her that way. It reminded her of a type of second class citizenship that she would not have for her children.
When I started karate in 1972, my Japanese instructor would literally beat us if we did not address him as sensei. Then when he got to be sixth degree, it had to be shihan. Then one day he decided that he was beyond that level, and said that meant we must once again call him sensei. Oye!
I first talked to George Mattson at my nidan test in New York City. I believe it was the very early eighties. I addressed him as "Sensei Mattson." He gave me a very embarrassed smile, and said "Please call me George." It felt funny....but I immediately identified with him.
When I started graduate school, I quickly learned that graduate students were scum. Bottom feeders. Boot lickers. Beneath the secretaries, technicians, and even the janitors. Our Swiss department chairman (and also my advisor) refused to talk to any graduate student in a social manner. If he was in the laboratory joking with the technician about getting big tires on his 4x4 and you made a comment in the conversation, both of them would give you a cold stare and then walk out of the room. The only way to break him out of this attitude was to invite him to dinner and get him rip-roaring drunk. Several bottles of wine later, you would learn that his middle name was "Otto", and that he never went to classes when in medical school in Zurich because he was always skiing on the slopes of the Alps. All students addressed faculty as "Doctor so-and-so." There was no exception - ever.
After I "walked the lawn" for the last time at U.Va. and was donned with the traditional Ph.D. shawl (or whatever the heck it is called), my proud parents were chatting with me at dinner. "How would you like us to address you?" my mom asked. I looked in her eyes; she was dead serious. "You can call me Bill," I said. "I'm still wearing Fruit-o-the-Looms."
And so here we are in these forums - a mixed group from mixed backgrounds. Some are extremely formal in their dialogue. Others have no respect (but in a pleasant, humorous way). And then there are those that we gladly flush down the cyber toilet. Most (but not all) will address an 8th degree from Okinawa as "Master so-and-so", and yet those same people will rarely if ever apply the same standard to an American master. One rather annoying smegma who will remain unnamed commented to me once how strange he thought it was that people addressed each other here as "Joe san" or Sally sama." He thought it strange, cliquish, maybe cultish. Well frankly in his case I could care less what he felt, but the perspective he related did intrigue me.
What's going on here? How should people be addressing each other? Is it all voluntary and folks use the pseudo Japanese form of address as terms of endearment among familiar company? Should we address J.D. as "Doctor sensei John," or should we use the titles that his ex-girfriend came up for him? And what are we trying to accomplish here anyhow?
Just wondering.
- Bill
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
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Bill Glasheen
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Evan Pantazi
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Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
Glasheen Sensei,
As the Martial Arts is one of the few remaining vehicles for proper etiquette left on this planet, I believe it is imperative we keep it alive. Also when in a public eye one must keep your character as you would like to be percieved, for a vast and varied number of reasons. In private and in non Arts related areas I prefer not to be addressed this way personally. But to keep with the high standards this forum holds (compared to others) I believe it a must.
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Evan Pantazi
users.erols.com/kyusho
As the Martial Arts is one of the few remaining vehicles for proper etiquette left on this planet, I believe it is imperative we keep it alive. Also when in a public eye one must keep your character as you would like to be percieved, for a vast and varied number of reasons. In private and in non Arts related areas I prefer not to be addressed this way personally. But to keep with the high standards this forum holds (compared to others) I believe it a must.
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Evan Pantazi
users.erols.com/kyusho
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
Sensei Glasheen,
Great topic!
When I was a kid growing up in "yankee territory" I was never taught to call anyone "sir" or "maam". However if my mother ever heard me refer to say... my adult neighbor as say "George" instead of "Mr. Mattson".....well times were different, she would be "pissed" and express it in a very physical way! Call my own mother by a title? NO, we were too familiar.
The sixties changed this country in huge ways... things are so different now, and not neccesarily for the best.
Anyway, I could go on and on about this. I'll make things brief.
Respect is a good thing. Showing it verbally is not a bad thing. I have tremendous respect for karate teachers because I attempt to teach on a regular basis. I try to show that respect verbaly because 1)I have been taught to by my teacher, 2)Its NOT false or ASS-KISSING on my part, 3)I hope my deference rubs off on the younger generation.
When I came out of my hiding place in the shadows, and started posting I tried to be very formal, courteous, respectful, blah, blah. I decided a good way to do this was to refer to those I knew as teachers as Sensei, to those I did not know as teachers as Mr. so-and-so, and to those who went by "handles" as exacty that handle. (expample "Dr. X") After becoming more familiar with folks, and in J.D.'s case him telling me he did'nt like being called "Doctor" I sometimes refer to people by their first name. Lately I have just been posting without adressing anyone inparticular.
Any way you can show respect publicly is a good thing, I think. As long as you are sincere.
With all due respect, Mr. Mattson should not be "embarrased" by terms of reverence directed to him. He is sort of in the grand poobah catagory is'nt he? My opinion is these folks should learn to deal with it! I like the story Mr. Mattson tells about Mr. Tomoyose telling him "you can call me Tommy", but GEM always refering to him as "Sensei" in public.
By the way, someone once mentioned that it is improper to call anyone Sensei except your own teacher. I don't know if they are correct or not... but I just have tons of respect for those who teach and think they all deserve that title - it means a lot to me, and if I refer to someone as Sensei I am projecting respect at them.
I hope nobody takes offense, or more importantly takes me as an ASS-KISSER if I use public terms of respect! (My teacher gets embarresed when refered to as Sensei in private - I do it anyway!
deal with it!)
Great topic!
When I was a kid growing up in "yankee territory" I was never taught to call anyone "sir" or "maam". However if my mother ever heard me refer to say... my adult neighbor as say "George" instead of "Mr. Mattson".....well times were different, she would be "pissed" and express it in a very physical way! Call my own mother by a title? NO, we were too familiar.
The sixties changed this country in huge ways... things are so different now, and not neccesarily for the best.
Anyway, I could go on and on about this. I'll make things brief.
Respect is a good thing. Showing it verbally is not a bad thing. I have tremendous respect for karate teachers because I attempt to teach on a regular basis. I try to show that respect verbaly because 1)I have been taught to by my teacher, 2)Its NOT false or ASS-KISSING on my part, 3)I hope my deference rubs off on the younger generation.
When I came out of my hiding place in the shadows, and started posting I tried to be very formal, courteous, respectful, blah, blah. I decided a good way to do this was to refer to those I knew as teachers as Sensei, to those I did not know as teachers as Mr. so-and-so, and to those who went by "handles" as exacty that handle. (expample "Dr. X") After becoming more familiar with folks, and in J.D.'s case him telling me he did'nt like being called "Doctor" I sometimes refer to people by their first name. Lately I have just been posting without adressing anyone inparticular.
Any way you can show respect publicly is a good thing, I think. As long as you are sincere.
With all due respect, Mr. Mattson should not be "embarrased" by terms of reverence directed to him. He is sort of in the grand poobah catagory is'nt he? My opinion is these folks should learn to deal with it! I like the story Mr. Mattson tells about Mr. Tomoyose telling him "you can call me Tommy", but GEM always refering to him as "Sensei" in public.
By the way, someone once mentioned that it is improper to call anyone Sensei except your own teacher. I don't know if they are correct or not... but I just have tons of respect for those who teach and think they all deserve that title - it means a lot to me, and if I refer to someone as Sensei I am projecting respect at them.
I hope nobody takes offense, or more importantly takes me as an ASS-KISSER if I use public terms of respect! (My teacher gets embarresed when refered to as Sensei in private - I do it anyway!
deal with it!)Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
I understand Evan san's perspective (and, yes, I will use the term with those who continually address in that manner since they seem more comfortable with it.) At the same time, I tend towards the first name basis unless someone truly was/is my instructor or an instructor of my instructor. This publicly recognizes my relationship with them.
In using the first name, I affirm my belief that we are equally human and that there are no pretensions. I believe respect is evident in how we respond to each in our respective posts. A title affixed to a name doesn't mean anything if what follows exudes hostility, disrespect, or a patronizing attitude. We are the embodiment of many things, of which martial arts practice is but just one thing. Whatever our skills in this small arena do not justify treating someone better or worse because of their skills relative to ours.
The use of titles by those such as Evan san is genuine and correlates with the manner in which he posts. I have also seen some in various forums who use titles as another form of self-aggrandizement. Their behavior however is less than impressive...
david
In using the first name, I affirm my belief that we are equally human and that there are no pretensions. I believe respect is evident in how we respond to each in our respective posts. A title affixed to a name doesn't mean anything if what follows exudes hostility, disrespect, or a patronizing attitude. We are the embodiment of many things, of which martial arts practice is but just one thing. Whatever our skills in this small arena do not justify treating someone better or worse because of their skills relative to ours.
The use of titles by those such as Evan san is genuine and correlates with the manner in which he posts. I have also seen some in various forums who use titles as another form of self-aggrandizement. Their behavior however is less than impressive...
david
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
I was at a seminar once and Sensei Jim Maloney walked in the door right past me. I said to a fellow student "Thats Jim Maloney!" in a goofy star-struck sort of way. Mr. Maloney heard this and turned around to approach us... I said "Hi Mr. Maloney!" He stuck out his hand and with a warm smile said "please call me Jim". He did not appear embarressed at all, just very friendly. He did not know me from a hole in the wall, but as we stood there shaking hands I felt an imediate bond with the man. I think he delt with this very well... I was impressed, next time I see him I will still say "Hi Mr. Maloney!" and hope he does'nt whomp me! Is this wrong of me?
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
...By the way, someone once mentioned that it is improper to call anyone Sensei except your own teacher...
I spent a little time trying to learn the Japanese language. I found it interesting that the term "sensei" is used for a) teachers, b) college professors, and c) policemen (or for the PC crowd, police-persons). This title appears to be one of respect. Therefore, why wouldn't you use it broadly, like it is apparently done in the Japanese language? I agree with Billy B Any way you can show respect publicly is a good thing
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Duane
I spent a little time trying to learn the Japanese language. I found it interesting that the term "sensei" is used for a) teachers, b) college professors, and c) policemen (or for the PC crowd, police-persons). This title appears to be one of respect. Therefore, why wouldn't you use it broadly, like it is apparently done in the Japanese language? I agree with Billy B Any way you can show respect publicly is a good thing
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Duane
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Scott Danziger
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Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
Titles change with the times. When I was a little kid, at birthday and Christmas time I would get cards addressed to Master Scott Danziger. Anybody remeber those days?
The last place I worked at, the new President of the company addressed us at his first formal meeting and said, 'call me John! Mr. Mega is my father.'
Me personally, I don't like "san". I have no idea what it means. The only "san" I really ever heard of was Daniel-san from Mr. Miyagi fame. If an old, wise, respected, Okinawan wants to call me Scott san then fine. It's his culture to speak that way. We study a Chinese/Okinawan art. We are not Okinawans. Let's not try to be. The Japanese play baseball, they are not Americans. Do they say "1st inning" or do they say the Japanese equivalent? (I really have no idea)
If you want me to call you sensei, fine. I personally would rather use it when addressing someone of BB status (teaching) in a public martial arts related topic/forum or activity. In private or non-MA related I'd rather not. Example: I have been training Weds. in a dojo run by a friend. In her class, in her dojo, in front of her students, or at a tournament I may be helping her out at - while in fromt of people, she is Sensei Fierro. Outside the dojo, in email, on the phone, etc.. she is Marilyn.
I will respect the individual wishes of anyone on this forum. If you want to be addressed as Shihan, Sensei, Master, Mr, San, or whatever... I don't have a problem. We all have our preferences for whatever reason and I will respect that. Just letting you know where I stand.
Scott
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The last place I worked at, the new President of the company addressed us at his first formal meeting and said, 'call me John! Mr. Mega is my father.'
Me personally, I don't like "san". I have no idea what it means. The only "san" I really ever heard of was Daniel-san from Mr. Miyagi fame. If an old, wise, respected, Okinawan wants to call me Scott san then fine. It's his culture to speak that way. We study a Chinese/Okinawan art. We are not Okinawans. Let's not try to be. The Japanese play baseball, they are not Americans. Do they say "1st inning" or do they say the Japanese equivalent? (I really have no idea)
If you want me to call you sensei, fine. I personally would rather use it when addressing someone of BB status (teaching) in a public martial arts related topic/forum or activity. In private or non-MA related I'd rather not. Example: I have been training Weds. in a dojo run by a friend. In her class, in her dojo, in front of her students, or at a tournament I may be helping her out at - while in fromt of people, she is Sensei Fierro. Outside the dojo, in email, on the phone, etc.. she is Marilyn.
I will respect the individual wishes of anyone on this forum. If you want to be addressed as Shihan, Sensei, Master, Mr, San, or whatever... I don't have a problem. We all have our preferences for whatever reason and I will respect that. Just letting you know where I stand.
Scott
------------------
Uechi-Ryu.Com Streaming Video & Audio
The Uechi-Ryu.Com Hotlist
Taking Charge - Cable TV & Video Martial Arts Show
Martial Arts Of Long Island
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RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
Scott: I do not know about innings, but the Japanese play 'besuboru'.
When I take over I will demand the title "Generalissimo"' and add some nice gold braid and piping to my gi.
Until then it is Rich or coach.
Rich C.
When I take over I will demand the title "Generalissimo"' and add some nice gold braid and piping to my gi.
Until then it is Rich or coach.
Rich C.
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
J.D.,
It is rude to refer to anyone by their last name? I did not know that. Does everyone agree on this? If its true, I have been being very rude for a long time. I am sincerely concerned about this.
Come to think of it I would never refer to my Doctor as anything but Dr. so-and-so, at least at his office. (maybe if I was over his house pounding Old Milwakee's or something....)
Why do you think "Bobby" refered to his brother as "Mr. President"? It could be ego on Robert's part.... or he could have just had a tremendous amount of respect for the position and the hard road his brother took to obtain it. My reason for attemptng to use titles when adressing seniors in our art is certainly the latter. If I sound like I am egotistical, well that honestly concerns me.
I would never have gone up to one of my college professors and said "Hi Jack!"(But then again I would'nt have called him "Professor Kennedy" either - I guess I would just say "professor") I just would not even consider it! Who would, in a profesional environment?
All this talk of democrats is making me queezy....I have to go evacuate my stomach...
[This message has been edited by BILLY B (edited March 31, 2000).]
It is rude to refer to anyone by their last name? I did not know that. Does everyone agree on this? If its true, I have been being very rude for a long time. I am sincerely concerned about this.
Come to think of it I would never refer to my Doctor as anything but Dr. so-and-so, at least at his office. (maybe if I was over his house pounding Old Milwakee's or something....)
Why do you think "Bobby" refered to his brother as "Mr. President"? It could be ego on Robert's part.... or he could have just had a tremendous amount of respect for the position and the hard road his brother took to obtain it. My reason for attemptng to use titles when adressing seniors in our art is certainly the latter. If I sound like I am egotistical, well that honestly concerns me.
I would never have gone up to one of my college professors and said "Hi Jack!"(But then again I would'nt have called him "Professor Kennedy" either - I guess I would just say "professor") I just would not even consider it! Who would, in a profesional environment?
All this talk of democrats is making me queezy....I have to go evacuate my stomach...
[This message has been edited by BILLY B (edited March 31, 2000).]
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
J.D.,
Ok, so I think you are just repeating your "titles are confered and never claimed" thing. Yes, I agree it is rude to say "Hey X, pass me another Old Milwawkee!" But, is it rude to say X Sensei, or Sensei X or whatever? I have been doing this a lot on these forums, and while nobody seems to really be offended - I hope I don't look foolish or rude. I'm not really arguing anymore, I just want to know what is proper so I can do it. If there are many things which are proper and they range from formal to informal or from respectful to familiar - well then I personaly would prefer to be formal and respectful and formal with folks on the web, since it is so public and I don't know most people personaly. Lets iron this thing out! As I said in my first post - "Great Topic!"
As an aside - not sure if this is directly related ot not.... I was over my brother-in-law's house the other day. He was relating to me how his #2 son had been having a problem in school.
The teacher was sending him home with horendous reports(not attentive in class, disruptive, poor quality homework etc.) So the kids parents were all over him! The kid had never had poor reports EVER before, it was only with this one teacher. Well to make a long story short.... turns out the teacher was some kind of a fruit-cake!
My b-in-law's point in telling me this was that he has automatic "respect" for authority figures. (Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Cops, etc.) He was brought up that way.... its not always a good attitude to have. Some Doctors are fruit-cakes as well, as evidenced by these forums
Just kidding!
I asked my B-in-law what he told his kid about the teacher. He said "Oh, nothing. He is going to have to learn to deal with jerks his whole life, you know - you probably have them at work, etc...blah, blah."
But this teacher did impact the kid's self-esteem. Funny, the synchronicity here - I AM dealing with a jerk at work right now!
This parent is one of my heroes in life... He has no college degrees whatsoever, but he is an awesome father! Woooeee, just had to say that.
Ok, so I think you are just repeating your "titles are confered and never claimed" thing. Yes, I agree it is rude to say "Hey X, pass me another Old Milwawkee!" But, is it rude to say X Sensei, or Sensei X or whatever? I have been doing this a lot on these forums, and while nobody seems to really be offended - I hope I don't look foolish or rude. I'm not really arguing anymore, I just want to know what is proper so I can do it. If there are many things which are proper and they range from formal to informal or from respectful to familiar - well then I personaly would prefer to be formal and respectful and formal with folks on the web, since it is so public and I don't know most people personaly. Lets iron this thing out! As I said in my first post - "Great Topic!"
As an aside - not sure if this is directly related ot not.... I was over my brother-in-law's house the other day. He was relating to me how his #2 son had been having a problem in school.
The teacher was sending him home with horendous reports(not attentive in class, disruptive, poor quality homework etc.) So the kids parents were all over him! The kid had never had poor reports EVER before, it was only with this one teacher. Well to make a long story short.... turns out the teacher was some kind of a fruit-cake!
My b-in-law's point in telling me this was that he has automatic "respect" for authority figures. (Teachers, Doctors, Lawyers, Cops, etc.) He was brought up that way.... its not always a good attitude to have. Some Doctors are fruit-cakes as well, as evidenced by these forums
Just kidding!I asked my B-in-law what he told his kid about the teacher. He said "Oh, nothing. He is going to have to learn to deal with jerks his whole life, you know - you probably have them at work, etc...blah, blah."
But this teacher did impact the kid's self-esteem. Funny, the synchronicity here - I AM dealing with a jerk at work right now!
This parent is one of my heroes in life... He has no college degrees whatsoever, but he is an awesome father! Woooeee, just had to say that.
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
The Power of Naming.
Did you ever consider the older traditions around the world of having public and secret names to not allow someone to gain power over you by knowing your true name?
Count Alfred Korzybski (creator of General Semantics) < paraphrased for the purist >
1. The word is not the 'real' thing.
2. The word is not the 'whole' thing.
3. Words are self reflexive.
1. Your name is an abstraction to signify your existence.
2. Your name as an abstraction to signify your existence dosen't explain everything that is in your existence.
3. Names can be reacted to as if they are real things.
As Doctor "X" likes obscure literary references, perhaps he'll remember Treebeards answer how long his own name was, perhaps the only true attempt I've seen to correctly name somebody.
So, the lecture continues, Sensei, Shihan, or even Mister or Doctor aren't you, unless you allow rule 3 to take over and let it become real.
To young students I am Mr. Smith. I came from a gentler era.
To everyone else, they can call me whatever they wish, Victor, Vic, Sensei or Hey You!
If they communicate their intention and get my attention that is sufficient.
But I am a metamorph. When in Rome, etc.
I will also call anybody by anything they wish. So if the Doctor wishes "X", so be it.
And if "Supreme Ultimate Grand Master 7th Degree Black Belt so and so" is their wish, with a straight face and full intention that is their name.
Because I know even they are more than that which I call out.
Victor
Did you ever consider the older traditions around the world of having public and secret names to not allow someone to gain power over you by knowing your true name?
Count Alfred Korzybski (creator of General Semantics) < paraphrased for the purist >
1. The word is not the 'real' thing.
2. The word is not the 'whole' thing.
3. Words are self reflexive.
1. Your name is an abstraction to signify your existence.
2. Your name as an abstraction to signify your existence dosen't explain everything that is in your existence.
3. Names can be reacted to as if they are real things.
As Doctor "X" likes obscure literary references, perhaps he'll remember Treebeards answer how long his own name was, perhaps the only true attempt I've seen to correctly name somebody.
So, the lecture continues, Sensei, Shihan, or even Mister or Doctor aren't you, unless you allow rule 3 to take over and let it become real.
To young students I am Mr. Smith. I came from a gentler era.
To everyone else, they can call me whatever they wish, Victor, Vic, Sensei or Hey You!
If they communicate their intention and get my attention that is sufficient.
But I am a metamorph. When in Rome, etc.
I will also call anybody by anything they wish. So if the Doctor wishes "X", so be it.
And if "Supreme Ultimate Grand Master 7th Degree Black Belt so and so" is their wish, with a straight face and full intention that is their name.
Because I know even they are more than that which I call out.
Victor
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Gilbert MacIntyre
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- Location: Sydney, NS, Canada
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
On these forums, I am new. If I know, for what ever reason, that the person I'm directing my post to, is senior to me I add sensai. Please don't be offended if I don't know yall. If this person is uncomfortable with that title they will tell me and I will go to a less formal address.
If I am on familiar terms with a senior I use first names...not in a class setting. I don't have a problem addressing a teacher/instructor as sensai. I also have no problem dropping it. I don't like when it is demanded by a senior, or when it is dropped by a junior rank, before there is a more casual relationship between the two. I guess what I'm saying is I'm against hard and fast rules on protocal, as far as titles go. If it is in a class then we should probably use the title, but when the class is over, even while still in the dojo, we should be able to figure out what feels right.
Gilbert
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Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. proverbs 22:6
If I am on familiar terms with a senior I use first names...not in a class setting. I don't have a problem addressing a teacher/instructor as sensai. I also have no problem dropping it. I don't like when it is demanded by a senior, or when it is dropped by a junior rank, before there is a more casual relationship between the two. I guess what I'm saying is I'm against hard and fast rules on protocal, as far as titles go. If it is in a class then we should probably use the title, but when the class is over, even while still in the dojo, we should be able to figure out what feels right.
Gilbert
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Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. proverbs 22:6
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Bill Glasheen
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Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
OK, Richard.
But seriously folks...If I were to go to a formal dinner and wanted to know which fork to pick up next, what clothing to wear, and what gift to bring the host, I would go to one or more books on etiquette - at least to get an opinion. I could choose to act differently, but at least I would know where to start.
Here we are, practicing an art that mixes at least three cultures here (China, Okinawa, and wherever). Yes, even Canadians have culture....or so I hear. And often we operate in an international setting. George, Bruce Hirabayashi and I have conducted camps in Germany for my student's school and the neighboring dojos. So we have two Americans and an American/French with a Japanese name teaching a Chinese/Okinawan art in the middle of Bavaria. What the hell kind of protocol are we to observe? Heck...Bruce doesn't even drink beer!
Has it occurred to any senior senior (for lack of a better formal title) to sit down and "suggest" some ground rules? And if not a senior senior, do we have any budding Amy Vanderbilts out there?
- Bill
But seriously folks...If I were to go to a formal dinner and wanted to know which fork to pick up next, what clothing to wear, and what gift to bring the host, I would go to one or more books on etiquette - at least to get an opinion. I could choose to act differently, but at least I would know where to start.
Here we are, practicing an art that mixes at least three cultures here (China, Okinawa, and wherever). Yes, even Canadians have culture....or so I hear. And often we operate in an international setting. George, Bruce Hirabayashi and I have conducted camps in Germany for my student's school and the neighboring dojos. So we have two Americans and an American/French with a Japanese name teaching a Chinese/Okinawan art in the middle of Bavaria. What the hell kind of protocol are we to observe? Heck...Bruce doesn't even drink beer!
Has it occurred to any senior senior (for lack of a better formal title) to sit down and "suggest" some ground rules? And if not a senior senior, do we have any budding Amy Vanderbilts out there?
- Bill
Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
Perhaps we all deserve the title: "Sensei", as we all teach each other.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
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Protocol, titles, and proper dialogue
There's a very interesting post by Bob Boulton on one of the Terry Dukes threads, related to how Mr. Dukes signs his name as "Shifu" Nagaboshi. Aside from the mix of languages and cultures, Bod suggests that in Asia one NEVER refers to ONESELF as "shifu" or "sifu" or "sensei". This is strictly used by the student as a term of respect for one's instructor. It would be like referring to yourself as "sir".
Some one should have told that to Mr. Dukes when he was doing all that training over in the netherworld. And I suppose someone should mention this the next time you see someone's name signed with the title "Sifu" by it.
- Bill
Some one should have told that to Mr. Dukes when he was doing all that training over in the netherworld. And I suppose someone should mention this the next time you see someone's name signed with the title "Sifu" by it.
- Bill
