Why are you here?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Apr 27, 2001 8:30 pm

It's funny how two different people think the same thing when they are close to 1000 miles away. I was going to post a topic like this. Then I go to the front page and see that George has already put a questionnaire on there asking basically the same thing.
http://polls.vantagenet.com/5/6/11124125056/polls/2311114055/results.htm?rlt=2311114055&id=2311114055

However...

Often at a dan test (like one I'll be conducting tomorrow), I'll ask someone a blunt question that has no "right" answer. The whole reason for asking it is not to hear anything in particular, but instead to see if years of training has given someone a realistic expectation of what they are doing and what they expect to get in the dojo. The only answers I would challenge would be ones that don't come very easily, or ones that are based on a flimsy proposition (I want to be able to defend myself against armed assailants when I chase drug dealers into the projects at night by myself...).

Why are two people wondering about this at the same time? Good question. One thing that makes you wonder is when one or several people emphatically say something like This is the way it is, and if not, then you should be basket weaving. The reality is fine for that individual, but it is presumptuous to think that others should seek the same path. In my mind, we are stronger as a group when we have an assortment of individuals with varying strengths and interests bringing their abilities to the table. As I recall Gary saying one time in one of his seminars, "A teacher can't be good at everything. It's important to train with others to round out your abilities and expand your horizons."

I never expect people to keep the same reasons over time. I never expect even half my students to have "noble" reasons for being in any of my classes. I only ask that people train hard and do their best to represent the dojo well.

So...beginner or advanced, young or old, exceptional or "average", why are you here? Why do you train? What are you seeking? How do you expect to achieve your goals?

- Bill

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Apr 27, 2001 8:39 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:

So...beginner or advanced, young or old, exceptional or "average", why are you here? Why do you train? What are you seeking? How do you expect to achieve your goals?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple... When I'm not doing martial arts, I don't feel alive... I was "dead" for way too long. It's great to be alive.

Thanks in no small part to 1) Margaret Chojin, 2) the folks on these forums, 3) Gary Khoury, 4) Bobby Spoon, 5) the support of all the folks at Khoury's Karate...

I'm alive and now I plan on living!

I'm a struggling hachi-kyu at Khoury's, but know what? If you need more black belt competitors at the next tournament, I feel alive enough to get in the ring (at least for the first round

) for some competition... (As long as Khoury-sensei doesn't kick my @$$ too bad!) HA!

You only live once (or twice or thrice or... how many times can you be reincarnated anyway?)... regardless, make it count.

[This message has been edited by Panther (edited April 27, 2001).]

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:03 am

I went back a few weeks to a thread I had started and copied this piece of one of my posts.

Though I seek to be the most competent fighter/survivor/protector possible. I want to be able to apply my skills effectively and I am serious about that but, I practice because it is FUN. I love this stuff.

Some guys enjoy golf, or softball, and that's fantastic. I love other things too, but I can't tell you how many times I have ridden my mountain bike into some isolated spot in the woods and then practiced kata, rather than riding the buff singletrack all around me.

We can talk what ifs and mindset and reality all night, I practice martial arts because I enjoy it.

ted

david · Post by **david** » Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:17 am

I have many reasons for training and, depending on the context/mood I am in, I can be really caught up with a particular reason. The benefits, however, are always multileveled and varied.

The most simple thing is that training has become a integral part of me. It's been a consistent part of my life. Training has been that for many more years than not. I can't imagine not training.

When I don't train for several days, my wife tells me to go train. She notices the difference in my mood because I'm no longer balanced psychologically/emotionally.

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited April 27, 2001).]

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 3:35 pm

'Cause I LOVE IT!!!

There are a whole lot of other reasons, but
the basic one is, I just enjoy this stuff too much. It's a part of my life that I cannot imagine not having.

Like David, if I don't train for a few days, my mood changes...usually for the worse, in my case.

Self defense, fitness, peace of mind. Those are all parts of why I enjoy it, but it's not the whole. I can't tell you what the whole is, because I honestly don't know...I just know that I love it...

------------------
Jake Steinmann
PDR Team
www.tonyblauer.com

crazycat · Post by **crazycat** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 8:35 pm

So...beginner or advanced, young or old, exceptional or "average", why are you here? Why do you train? What are you seeking? How do you expect to achieve your goals?

I don't know. I look at what I have accomplished and there is nothing there. I look at what I am going to accomplish in the future, there is nothing there either.

I'm learning to enjoy the moment.

david · Post by **david** » Wed May 02, 2001 7:19 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

NO ONE is in control. We can prepare and train for infinite scenarios for infinite hours and we will still not be in control.

That's RIGHT ON in my perspective. You may enter a practice thinking that you will learn and prepare for all contingencies. Funny thing on the way to the forum... You realize the more you know, the more you know that you don't know. The idea of seeking control over external factors is illusive if not delusional. The work towards control over oneself in face of whatever happens is probably more real. How many have given up because they realize the practice doesn't convey control over the external world. Ironically, is often realizing and accepting that through practice, one begins to see the worth of the practice.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Isn't that our (Martial Artists) darkest fear?

My "darkest fear" is NOT about winning or losing. It's about failing my conviction, of not having done my best, of not having acted rightly in this lifetime...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Don't we practice to try to control the fear?

I practice to face and accept my fear, to go on despite it.

david

Even the strongest will fall. Most will be forgotten just like the weakest among them in the mist of time. Don't take oneself too seriously but enjoy and bring joy to others...

[This message has been edited by david (edited May 02, 2001).]

Gilbert MacIntyre · Post by **Gilbert MacIntyre** » Wed May 02, 2001 7:53 pm

I started training to stay in shape between jobs as a high voltage lineman. I admit there was a time when control was an influence. Wanting to be able to survive an attack, controlling myself as well as the opponent.

Somewhere along the line it has become a path that I must follow to see where it takes me. There is no end so I don't ever see me stopping. It has brought me some great friends, and pretty good health.

Along the path I have realized my anger was from the inside and not a result of the outside world. I have learned about energy, nutrition and humility.

There was a time in my life when I thought a book was a short fat door stop. Now I very seldom am not in the middle of at least one, usually several. Philosophy, energy, culture and once in a while just a good old fashion fictional.

With every year I am happier. My two girls have a much better father than their older brother did(his father was good, he just didn't listen as much and was a little controlling). My wife says often that I am not the man she married, I've changed for the better.

I have realized how much more important the ears are, rather than the mouth. I try not to preach...too much, I listen and try not to identify with any thing nor expect anything.

All this because, for what ever the reason, I walked into a Dojo 20 years ago. This way, or path is my life and I can't wait to see where it takes me next. The training is life.
Gilbert.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert MacIntyre (edited May 02, 2001).]

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Wed May 02, 2001 9:32 pm

Why am I here?

Well, you see a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away this man and this woman who would become my parents decided that they were physically attracted to... Oh, wait... that's not what you're interested in, is it...

sorry... my bad.

(apologies, I'm just in one of those moods that couldn't resist.

)

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Thu May 03, 2001 5:40 am

NO ONE is in control. We can prepare and train for infinite scenarios for infinite hours and we will still not be in control.

Isn't that our (Martial Artists) darkest fear?

Don't we practice to try to control the fear?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu May 03, 2001 5:55 am

Ted

Very interesting. I think this "control" issue is one of many elements. It is indeed what brings a good portion of people in the dojo or training hall. But can fear or lack of it keep someone practicing forever?

I've often pointed out to people interested in martial arts as self defense that the most important element is years of consistent training. Once the quality of the program is assured, the time element is - in my mind - the key factor. Can someone stay angry and afraid forever? I don't know; every person is unique. The reactive element often ends in quitting once someone faces the reality of the day-to-day work necessary to be minimally competent. What keeps the lifers in there? Is it fear, or something else? Is there possibly a certain irony in that those who worry the least about the end - and find other reasons to stay - are more likely to achieve it? I don't know. It's a thought I've been mulling over.

- Bill

Valkenar · Post by **Valkenar** » Thu May 03, 2001 6:05 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
So...beginner or advanced, young or old, exceptional or "average", why are you here? Why do you train? What are you seeking? How do you expect to achieve your goals?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like just about everyone else, the largest part of the reason is a variant of "because I like it."

This sounds kinda silly, but the simple physical sensation of moving around, particularly when there's some structure to it, is probably the thing I like most in the world.

I must also admit a certain amount of pride in mastering (or at least improving) a system of movement. I did dance long before I did karate, and for me they accomplish essentially the same things.

Karate could have that extra component of self-defense, but from what I've read here it really seems that in order to significanlty improve your survivability chances you need to spend an incredible amount of time training for that specifically. My impression is that not only do you have to do things like scenario training, but you really have to intently focus your karate training on preparing for a fight. Well, I don't enjoy doing it that way. Scenarios can be fun, but for me personally an exclusively defensive focus robs the style of it enjoyability.
Maybe it's foolish to be shirking the self-defense aspect simply because I find it less than thrilling, but when you come right down to it, I don't believe that it's worth spending a lot of time doing something I don't like, whose only benefit is a minute chance or increasing my overall lifespan. There's just no way that the average amount of extra life a master of self-defense gains is more than the time put into becoming a master. So since I don't like doing what is neccessary to really increase my odds, I content myself with honing my self-defense abilities only insofar as I also like discussing the viability of techniques.

And in terms of achieving my goals, well I've already achieved my goals. I achieve them anew every time I go to class... though I suppose there is some image lingering in the back of my ind of this incredible master of martial arts that it would be nice to become.

Colin 8 of 8 · Post by **Colin 8 of 8** » Fri May 04, 2001 12:21 am

My first impulse in answering this question is I love to learn. But martial arts is so much more than just something else to study.

Colin 8 of 8

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Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Fri May 04, 2001 4:35 am

We all come to a martial art for a variety of reasons. But underlying it all there will always be the defense component buried in the subconscious, or we would not be drawn to a martial art. Also the term “ Martial Art” denotes certain implications that are hard to dispute deep in our psyche.

The defense component needs to be studied very closely, the emotional and physical principles absorbed deeply but without an obsessive quality.

Becoming a master or even a senior worth his salt, a practitioner needs to teach to learn the fine points of what he is studying.
Every master I have known is or was a respected teacher.

And with teaching comes responsibility. Students will come to you expecting you to teach them a defensive component.

If you avoid familiarizing yourself with the evolving concepts of modern defensive action, inside and outside the tool box of your style, then you will have no business deceiving a trusting student about his defensive capabilities after a few half ass katas/kumite, and sparring, while you take his money.

If you can’t do this, then you are not a teacher, and if you are not a teacher, you are not really internalizing the martial art, you will possess nothing but the shell. There are notable exceptions to this, but for the most part this is the way it is. You don’t teach __ you don’t become a “master” or a senior worthy of respect.

And if you only possess the shell then come clean with your students and tell them to go somewhere else to learn self defense, and to come to you only for the traditional movements.

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Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited May 03, 2001).]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri May 04, 2001 5:00 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ted Dinwiddie:
Don't we practice to try to control the fear

Or do we practice to face the fear.Facing it is a test,not facing it ensures that one day it will grow larger than we dare stand against.

We will never vanquish fear but through training we may learn too harness it.

Laird