Shorin-Ryu
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Shorin-Ryu
What is the differnce between Shorin-Ryu and Uechi-ryu and Goju-Ryu???
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Shorin-Ryu
From a broad perspective, one might put Shorin ryu on one end of the spectrum, Uechi ryu on the other, and Goju inbetween. Uechi ryu focuses on shallow stances, open-handed infighting methods, and circular blocks. Shorin ryu concentrates on deeper stances and closed-fisted methods with a greater preponderance of linear blocks. Goju methods have their origins from both schools of thought (but not necessarily those specific schools per se).
Uechi ryu has the shortest history on Okinawa, and has retained most of its Chinese identity. Shorin ryu is the oldest of Okinawa te methods, and has it's origins in "Shuri te" methods. The Goju method is the middle-ager on Okinawa, and comes from the Naha region of Okinawa.
The key figures of Uechi ryu origin are Chou Tze Ho, Kanbun Uechi, and Kanei Uechi. The key figures of the Goju method are Kanryo Higaonna and Chojun Miyagi. The key figures of the Shorin method are Kanga Sakugawa and Sokon Matsumura.
Most styles of "karate" and taequodo find their origins (directly or indirectly) from one of these three systems.
- Bill
Uechi ryu has the shortest history on Okinawa, and has retained most of its Chinese identity. Shorin ryu is the oldest of Okinawa te methods, and has it's origins in "Shuri te" methods. The Goju method is the middle-ager on Okinawa, and comes from the Naha region of Okinawa.
The key figures of Uechi ryu origin are Chou Tze Ho, Kanbun Uechi, and Kanei Uechi. The key figures of the Goju method are Kanryo Higaonna and Chojun Miyagi. The key figures of the Shorin method are Kanga Sakugawa and Sokon Matsumura.
Most styles of "karate" and taequodo find their origins (directly or indirectly) from one of these three systems.
- Bill
Shorin-Ryu
The non tournament oriented and defensive systems of Shorin ryu that were the ones originally taught on Okinawa as from Matsumura and descendants, and related styles, are actually soft, natural , upright stanced systems, using circular movements and snapping strikes thrown from natural postures, and deeper stance is only used to take an opponent down or dodge or duck.
Or to train legs and hips.
Tai sabaki is king in Shorin ru and evasions are accompanied by instant counters using striking or grappling locking or other techniques directed from outside angles to vulnerable areas of the body.Grasping blocks sing the torite uke or seizing hand block and vriants of the shuto uke or sword hand receiving method figure prominently.
Hand techniques and blocks are actually thrown in arcing motions, semi-circular and circular, not angular as some believe and as in post tournament japanized Shorin ryu that resembles more Shotokan style, a descendant of shorin ryu.
Real shorin ryu, not talking styles now but the art, is seen as a circle from any point of which a soft defense suddenly becomes hard and then soft again and lashes out in a whiplike manner to effect the undoing of an attacker.
It is a defensive and not an attacking art, and those who do tournaments only cannpt understand it at all.:-)
Goju ryu and y understanding of the original Uechi ryu, also were defensive and circular arts.I understand that in the post tournament Uechi and also to some extent in Goju, the circular component still survives but the Tai sabaki has gone largely missing.
The normal shorin ryu stance is a natural standing stance either double weighted in appearance( catch that) or like one walking.
In combat the neko ashi dachi or cat's foot stance is used as a transitional posture especially during adjustments of distance or tai sabaki, so as to be able to kick sokusen to the opponents lowe body in conjuncion wth hand tacrtics, or to use the fla of the sole to disrupt the opponent's balance and distract him for a takedown or other technique. Finishing strikes, holds and locks are also utilized with good effect..
The core of Shorin s the front punch and the front kick, the secondary techniques include the hammerfists, backfist and nami gaeshi kick, and the third line of defendse icorporats usage of the elbows and knees. The shorin original shuto uke can use the rollback principle comon to Taiji chuan which is not present in many other styles of karate but is also in Goju and Uechi kata, either ripping or allowing the opponent to go down back past you.
A few thoughts for what they are worth.
Regards, John
[This message has been edited by kusanku (edited June 15, 2001).]
Or to train legs and hips.
Tai sabaki is king in Shorin ru and evasions are accompanied by instant counters using striking or grappling locking or other techniques directed from outside angles to vulnerable areas of the body.Grasping blocks sing the torite uke or seizing hand block and vriants of the shuto uke or sword hand receiving method figure prominently.
Hand techniques and blocks are actually thrown in arcing motions, semi-circular and circular, not angular as some believe and as in post tournament japanized Shorin ryu that resembles more Shotokan style, a descendant of shorin ryu.
Real shorin ryu, not talking styles now but the art, is seen as a circle from any point of which a soft defense suddenly becomes hard and then soft again and lashes out in a whiplike manner to effect the undoing of an attacker.
It is a defensive and not an attacking art, and those who do tournaments only cannpt understand it at all.:-)
Goju ryu and y understanding of the original Uechi ryu, also were defensive and circular arts.I understand that in the post tournament Uechi and also to some extent in Goju, the circular component still survives but the Tai sabaki has gone largely missing.
The normal shorin ryu stance is a natural standing stance either double weighted in appearance( catch that) or like one walking.
In combat the neko ashi dachi or cat's foot stance is used as a transitional posture especially during adjustments of distance or tai sabaki, so as to be able to kick sokusen to the opponents lowe body in conjuncion wth hand tacrtics, or to use the fla of the sole to disrupt the opponent's balance and distract him for a takedown or other technique. Finishing strikes, holds and locks are also utilized with good effect..
The core of Shorin s the front punch and the front kick, the secondary techniques include the hammerfists, backfist and nami gaeshi kick, and the third line of defendse icorporats usage of the elbows and knees. The shorin original shuto uke can use the rollback principle comon to Taiji chuan which is not present in many other styles of karate but is also in Goju and Uechi kata, either ripping or allowing the opponent to go down back past you.
A few thoughts for what they are worth.
Regards, John
[This message has been edited by kusanku (edited June 15, 2001).]
Shorin-Ryu
kusanku -
VERY concise description of Shorin-ryu! Also, Shorin styles rely heavily on lower line attacks with the feet than, say, the Korean and Northern Chinese forms and also, many sensei teach body-hardening techniques, similar to those in Uechi-ryu and Goju-ryu as well.
We had a saying in our dojo, many years ago - "Shorin-ryu doesn't kick above the waist." Which was true for the street applications, anyway.
One critical factor in some sensei's training is the concept that "every block is a strike and every strike is a block." While this does not necessarily indicate a hard/hard concept for blocking and striking, it does show a dynamic balance of hard/soft responses, predicated on incoming attack.
In general, Shorin-ryu stylists give the pure tournament karateka cause to shake their heads in bewilderment because of the ingrained attitude of "Rules?! In a street fight?!" Even though training in force continuum is central to the teachings of many Shorin-ryu instructors, many Shorin-ryu karateka used to have trouble with the idea of "illegal" strikes in a tournament, some of the rather odd point scoring systems in use (in their opinion) and the concept of timed rounds.
Shorin-ryu, like Uechi-ryu IMHO, shares an attitude of "if it works, use it - if not, dump it and try something else" when it comes to real combat, but is VERY strict in its teaching of kata.
Shorin-ryu is also one of the few styles that occasionally covers the relatively unknown Okinawan kobudo weapon the Chinte.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
VERY concise description of Shorin-ryu! Also, Shorin styles rely heavily on lower line attacks with the feet than, say, the Korean and Northern Chinese forms and also, many sensei teach body-hardening techniques, similar to those in Uechi-ryu and Goju-ryu as well.
We had a saying in our dojo, many years ago - "Shorin-ryu doesn't kick above the waist." Which was true for the street applications, anyway.
One critical factor in some sensei's training is the concept that "every block is a strike and every strike is a block." While this does not necessarily indicate a hard/hard concept for blocking and striking, it does show a dynamic balance of hard/soft responses, predicated on incoming attack.
In general, Shorin-ryu stylists give the pure tournament karateka cause to shake their heads in bewilderment because of the ingrained attitude of "Rules?! In a street fight?!" Even though training in force continuum is central to the teachings of many Shorin-ryu instructors, many Shorin-ryu karateka used to have trouble with the idea of "illegal" strikes in a tournament, some of the rather odd point scoring systems in use (in their opinion) and the concept of timed rounds.
Shorin-ryu, like Uechi-ryu IMHO, shares an attitude of "if it works, use it - if not, dump it and try something else" when it comes to real combat, but is VERY strict in its teaching of kata.
Shorin-ryu is also one of the few styles that occasionally covers the relatively unknown Okinawan kobudo weapon the Chinte.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Shorin-Ryu
Hello Lee-
Good additions to the Shorin ryu descriptions, yes.
And all quite true.
Also, the shorin based systems tend towards close combat solutions.
Regards, John
Good additions to the Shorin ryu descriptions, yes.
And all quite true.
Also, the shorin based systems tend towards close combat solutions.
Regards, John
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Shorin-Ryu
Gang
Thanks for fleshing out the descriptions of Shorin ryu. My exposure to the system was from a Japanese, and so was changed quite a bit from the original concepts. But then again, many of the great systems of Okinawa have factionalized and evolved. Such is life in the martial arts.
- Bill
Thanks for fleshing out the descriptions of Shorin ryu. My exposure to the system was from a Japanese, and so was changed quite a bit from the original concepts. But then again, many of the great systems of Okinawa have factionalized and evolved. Such is life in the martial arts.
- Bill
Shorin-Ryu
Bill and everyone!,
Thanks for the details on the differences…
Bill- you mentioned "okinawa te" in your response:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Shorin ryu is the oldest of Okinawa te methods
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you have more information on Okinawa Te?
I was reading a book called, "Okinawan Karate : Teachers,Styles, and Secret Techniques" and in a chapter (I think it was Okinawan Kenpo Chapter) it mentions briefly someone who was the teacher/master of Okinawa Te who changed the name to Okinawan Kenpo.
From research on the net I found what is known to be "The Forerunner of Modern Karate" article at Black Belt Magazine here: http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1965/mar65/okinawate/okinawate.html This provides a lot of detail of the style of Okinawa Te.
It features the Grand Master of the art, Gordon Doversola, who studied under Teiken Nagusuko. But from the book, "Okinawan Karte" I can't find the history of Teiken or the other grandmasters of Doversola's art of Okinawa Te.
I think Gordon Doversola's system is also taught by other Master's who studied under him like M.Pecina and sensei A.Khoury (any relation to Gary Khoury?) under a different name and patch http://www.okinawate.com
…and also taught by Sensei Triplett under the same name and patch as Doversola's. http://www.ntsworld.com/okinawa-te/
Do you know anything about this and its history?
From what is gathered, if it is the forerunner of modern karate, then the topic of: Shorin-Ryu and Uechi-ryu and Goju-Ryu, means that Okinawa Te encompases the spectrum you mentioned and includes everything.
From shallow stances to deeper. From open-hand in-fighting and circular blocks to close fisted linear blocks.
Do you have any research on this?
------------------
[This message has been edited by KarateKid (edited June 25, 2001).]
Thanks for the details on the differences…
Bill- you mentioned "okinawa te" in your response:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Shorin ryu is the oldest of Okinawa te methods
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you have more information on Okinawa Te?
I was reading a book called, "Okinawan Karate : Teachers,Styles, and Secret Techniques" and in a chapter (I think it was Okinawan Kenpo Chapter) it mentions briefly someone who was the teacher/master of Okinawa Te who changed the name to Okinawan Kenpo.
From research on the net I found what is known to be "The Forerunner of Modern Karate" article at Black Belt Magazine here: http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1965/mar65/okinawate/okinawate.html This provides a lot of detail of the style of Okinawa Te.
It features the Grand Master of the art, Gordon Doversola, who studied under Teiken Nagusuko. But from the book, "Okinawan Karte" I can't find the history of Teiken or the other grandmasters of Doversola's art of Okinawa Te.
I think Gordon Doversola's system is also taught by other Master's who studied under him like M.Pecina and sensei A.Khoury (any relation to Gary Khoury?) under a different name and patch http://www.okinawate.com
…and also taught by Sensei Triplett under the same name and patch as Doversola's. http://www.ntsworld.com/okinawa-te/
Do you know anything about this and its history?
From what is gathered, if it is the forerunner of modern karate, then the topic of: Shorin-Ryu and Uechi-ryu and Goju-Ryu, means that Okinawa Te encompases the spectrum you mentioned and includes everything.
From shallow stances to deeper. From open-hand in-fighting and circular blocks to close fisted linear blocks.
Do you have any research on this?
------------------
[This message has been edited by KarateKid (edited June 25, 2001).]
Shorin-Ryu
The style does not appear to be Okinawan in origin.
It does bear some similarities or Emperado's kajukenbo and Parker's Kenpo.
Doversola's explanations of his kata names and techniques reminds me of the Hawaaian Kenpo names.
The Okinawa Ti known in Okinawa, means the Okinawan martial arts later called Kempo and Karate.Icluding grappling arts, none of which I noted in the Black Belt article, all pretty straight kicky punchy stuff.
The use in self defense against three people of a side kick, back kick and front kick,all above thewaist, sounds pretty sixties.People back then didn't have a clue how to block kicks, mostly , unless trained in karate.
I met a person who studied Okinawa ti in Okinawa, and he said it was like shorin ryu but without the kicks.
Never heard of Doversola's instructor.Never heard of one armed Kihei Motobu.
Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but it seems like the stance and blocks he uses are from the American Kenpo system.Or similar anyway. The long katas , too.
It does bear some similarities or Emperado's kajukenbo and Parker's Kenpo.
Doversola's explanations of his kata names and techniques reminds me of the Hawaaian Kenpo names.
The Okinawa Ti known in Okinawa, means the Okinawan martial arts later called Kempo and Karate.Icluding grappling arts, none of which I noted in the Black Belt article, all pretty straight kicky punchy stuff.
The use in self defense against three people of a side kick, back kick and front kick,all above thewaist, sounds pretty sixties.People back then didn't have a clue how to block kicks, mostly , unless trained in karate.
I met a person who studied Okinawa ti in Okinawa, and he said it was like shorin ryu but without the kicks.
Never heard of Doversola's instructor.Never heard of one armed Kihei Motobu.
Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but it seems like the stance and blocks he uses are from the American Kenpo system.Or similar anyway. The long katas , too.
Shorin-Ryu
To oversimplify the situation regarding Okinawa-te or Okinawa-ti to use the more modern spelling, one needs to look at the language and meaning of the word te or hand.
Okinawa-te is essentially a catch-all term for all Okinawan fist arts and often is used to include the grappling arts as well, but in more recent times has come to mean the forerunners of the primary Okinawan karate (kara - empty, te - hand) styles that later evolved into Shorin-ryu, Uechi Ryu and Goju-ryu as well as Okinawan Kenpo.
In earliest times, styles were family based to my understanding with only regional differences being named, notably Shuri-te (based in Shuri village) and Naha-te (based in Naha city.
So, one could make the statement that all Okinawan karate is essentially Okinawa-te. The sytlistic differences have allowed further definition and allow the student to better understand the focuses of each art more exactly by assigning names to them, such as Uechi-ryu (the Uechi school or style), Shorin-ryu, etc.
A similar case could be made for western wrestling. We have collegiate rules wrestling, Greco-Roman wrestling and the WWF. Mention any of these to a person even remotely familiar with the concepts of wrestling and they know what you are talking about immediately, whereas, if you just mentioning wrestling, they may think of WWF or collegiate rules or (rarely as it's still rather obscure) Greco-Roman style and have only a rough idea of what is being referenced.
This is NOT to equate ANY real martial art with pro wrestling, but to draw a similarity in the linguistig and public understanding of the terms above relative to the development of more specific definitions of the Okinawan fighting arts as delineated by the various Ryus, nothing more.
Hope this helps (and that I got my Okinawan history relatively correct in the process!).
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
------------------
"No matter where you go, there you MIGHT be!" - Heisenberg
Okinawa-te is essentially a catch-all term for all Okinawan fist arts and often is used to include the grappling arts as well, but in more recent times has come to mean the forerunners of the primary Okinawan karate (kara - empty, te - hand) styles that later evolved into Shorin-ryu, Uechi Ryu and Goju-ryu as well as Okinawan Kenpo.
In earliest times, styles were family based to my understanding with only regional differences being named, notably Shuri-te (based in Shuri village) and Naha-te (based in Naha city.
So, one could make the statement that all Okinawan karate is essentially Okinawa-te. The sytlistic differences have allowed further definition and allow the student to better understand the focuses of each art more exactly by assigning names to them, such as Uechi-ryu (the Uechi school or style), Shorin-ryu, etc.
A similar case could be made for western wrestling. We have collegiate rules wrestling, Greco-Roman wrestling and the WWF. Mention any of these to a person even remotely familiar with the concepts of wrestling and they know what you are talking about immediately, whereas, if you just mentioning wrestling, they may think of WWF or collegiate rules or (rarely as it's still rather obscure) Greco-Roman style and have only a rough idea of what is being referenced.
This is NOT to equate ANY real martial art with pro wrestling, but to draw a similarity in the linguistig and public understanding of the terms above relative to the development of more specific definitions of the Okinawan fighting arts as delineated by the various Ryus, nothing more.
Hope this helps (and that I got my Okinawan history relatively correct in the process!).
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
------------------
"No matter where you go, there you MIGHT be!" - Heisenberg
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Ted Dinwiddie
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Charlottesville,VA,USA
Shorin-Ryu
Lee, I generally agree with your post, but have some details to add from my own reading.
There was te (ti) - "hand" in literal translation (which is never completely accurate) and there was tode (to-te) - "China hand". There was a distinction made between the fighting styles that had existed and those which were influenced by the Chinese. Tode as a word evolved to karate and kara was reinterpreted to mean "empty" instead of "China" because of Japanese xenophobia. The top Okinawan masters agreed on this for the purpose of promoting their art more extensively to mainstream Japanese society.
Great Thread
ted
There was te (ti) - "hand" in literal translation (which is never completely accurate) and there was tode (to-te) - "China hand". There was a distinction made between the fighting styles that had existed and those which were influenced by the Chinese. Tode as a word evolved to karate and kara was reinterpreted to mean "empty" instead of "China" because of Japanese xenophobia. The top Okinawan masters agreed on this for the purpose of promoting their art more extensively to mainstream Japanese society.
Great Thread
ted
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Robb in Sacramento
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Shorin-Ryu
Lee & Ted & Kusanku
Thanks for the insight. Can I tap you for some info on the differences, if any, between Shorin Ryu, Shuri Te, and Tomari Te. And, do you have any examples of a Tomari Te kata that is still being practiced within any of the Okinawan systems. Thanks in advance.
Peace.
Robb in Sacramento
Thanks for the insight. Can I tap you for some info on the differences, if any, between Shorin Ryu, Shuri Te, and Tomari Te. And, do you have any examples of a Tomari Te kata that is still being practiced within any of the Okinawan systems. Thanks in advance.
Peace.
Robb in Sacramento
Shorin-Ryu
Robb- Shorinn ryu is generally considered to be the combination of shuri te and tomari te, often with some Naha te added.
The differences between the three was mostly political.
But, many tomari versions of kata are still practiced.
For instance, there is tomari Passai, and also tomari seisan, shurite seisan, and nahate seisan.
Tomarite katas are generally the Tomari Seisan done in Okinawn Kenpo,Naihanchi, practiced as by Shoshin Nagamines style of Matsubayashi ryu, as well as Wansu/Wanshu, Wankan,rohai, and maybe chinto too.
Shurite katas are HookiyuGata ichi, Taikyoku One-three done by Funakoshi, Pinan, Kusanku,Passai Sho and Dai,Itosu Naihanchi,Shurite seisan,Shurite chinto or gankaku,and so forth.
Nahati katas include sanchin, Naha seisan,sanseiryu or sandairu,and a mess of others,including gekisai dai ichi and ni, tensho, seienchin, saifa,shisochin, kururunfa, seipai,niseisi, ueseishi sho and dai, sochin and unshu, suparinpai.
Some may disagree or add or subtract to this classification They may well be right.
John
The differences between the three was mostly political.
But, many tomari versions of kata are still practiced.
For instance, there is tomari Passai, and also tomari seisan, shurite seisan, and nahate seisan.
Tomarite katas are generally the Tomari Seisan done in Okinawn Kenpo,Naihanchi, practiced as by Shoshin Nagamines style of Matsubayashi ryu, as well as Wansu/Wanshu, Wankan,rohai, and maybe chinto too.
Shurite katas are HookiyuGata ichi, Taikyoku One-three done by Funakoshi, Pinan, Kusanku,Passai Sho and Dai,Itosu Naihanchi,Shurite seisan,Shurite chinto or gankaku,and so forth.
Nahati katas include sanchin, Naha seisan,sanseiryu or sandairu,and a mess of others,including gekisai dai ichi and ni, tensho, seienchin, saifa,shisochin, kururunfa, seipai,niseisi, ueseishi sho and dai, sochin and unshu, suparinpai.
Some may disagree or add or subtract to this classification They may well be right.
John
Shorin-Ryu
I do an offsoot of Shorin that is called Shorin-ji from Matsumura to Itosu to Arrikaki to our current sensei, Richard Kim.
Everything posted earlier about the differences are correct in my experience. The kata you have separated John are all in our repetoire, even the Naha kata, but only because we are paired with some Goju groups for seminars.
In this day and age of eclectic cross training, little is left out of a style if someone thinks it has value.
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The Fighting Old Man
Everything posted earlier about the differences are correct in my experience. The kata you have separated John are all in our repetoire, even the Naha kata, but only because we are paired with some Goju groups for seminars.
In this day and age of eclectic cross training, little is left out of a style if someone thinks it has value.
------------------
The Fighting Old Man
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Robb in Sacramento
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Shorin-Ryu
Sochin:
You are quite lucky to train under Mr. Kim. Is he still teaching in San Francisco (was it the YMCA?). I have had the pleasure of speaking with him on a couple of occasions, and it was very insightful.
So, why aren't any of you shorin-ryu guys mentioning one of my favorite katas, Gojushiho. I love doing this kata, curtesy of Zenryo Shimabuku (sp?), but have not encountered anyone else doing it.
You are quite lucky to train under Mr. Kim. Is he still teaching in San Francisco (was it the YMCA?). I have had the pleasure of speaking with him on a couple of occasions, and it was very insightful.
So, why aren't any of you shorin-ryu guys mentioning one of my favorite katas, Gojushiho. I love doing this kata, curtesy of Zenryo Shimabuku (sp?), but have not encountered anyone else doing it.
Shorin-Ryu
kusanku,
Again, marvellous post! Very complete and accurate and contained some things that I have not even thought about for years. Thank you.
Robb, one other difference in the Shorin Ryu is that, as far as I have been able to ascertain, they about the only style that still teaches the kobudo weapon known as chinte, which is a wooden dowel some 4 inches longer than the practitioner's forearm, strapped TO the forearm so that the extra length extends down below the elbow.
Worn one on each arm, its use is similar to the tonfa, or tuifa, which in the west became the policeman's "new style" nightstick, the one with the handle on the side, which was introduced after Demura-sensei's publication back in the late 60's or early '70's and espoused by him, Tak Kubota-sensei and others as a more effective street weapon for a constable on patrol (cop).
Using the chinte, a defender could very effectively deal with a spear or sword attack by using angled deflection of the razor-sharp blades and deal devastating blows with the forearm, elbow, etc. Because, when not in use, it looked like nothing more than a piece of wood lying on top of some straps, it was rarely thought to be a weapon, even in the severe searches done by occupying Japanese warriors, police and the like.
Just a little addition.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kusanku:
Robb- Shorinn ryu is generally considered to be the combination of shuri te and tomari te, often with some Naha te added.
The differences between the three was mostly political.
But, many tomari versions of kata are still practiced.
For instance, there is tomari Passai, and also tomari seisan, shurite seisan, and nahate seisan.
Tomarite katas are generally the Tomari Seisan done in Okinawn Kenpo,Naihanchi, practiced as by Shoshin Nagamines style of Matsubayashi ryu, as well as Wansu/Wanshu, Wankan,rohai, and maybe chinto too.
Shurite katas are HookiyuGata ichi, Taikyoku One-three done by Funakoshi, Pinan, Kusanku,Passai Sho and Dai,Itosu Naihanchi,Shurite seisan,Shurite chinto or gankaku,and so forth.
Nahati katas include sanchin, Naha seisan,sanseiryu or sandairu,and a mess of others,including gekisai dai ichi and ni, tensho, seienchin, saifa,shisochin, kururunfa, seipai,niseisi, ueseishi sho and dai, sochin and unshu, suparinpai.
Some may disagree or add or subtract to this classification They may well be right.
John
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again, marvellous post! Very complete and accurate and contained some things that I have not even thought about for years. Thank you.
Robb, one other difference in the Shorin Ryu is that, as far as I have been able to ascertain, they about the only style that still teaches the kobudo weapon known as chinte, which is a wooden dowel some 4 inches longer than the practitioner's forearm, strapped TO the forearm so that the extra length extends down below the elbow.
Worn one on each arm, its use is similar to the tonfa, or tuifa, which in the west became the policeman's "new style" nightstick, the one with the handle on the side, which was introduced after Demura-sensei's publication back in the late 60's or early '70's and espoused by him, Tak Kubota-sensei and others as a more effective street weapon for a constable on patrol (cop).
Using the chinte, a defender could very effectively deal with a spear or sword attack by using angled deflection of the razor-sharp blades and deal devastating blows with the forearm, elbow, etc. Because, when not in use, it looked like nothing more than a piece of wood lying on top of some straps, it was rarely thought to be a weapon, even in the severe searches done by occupying Japanese warriors, police and the like.
Just a little addition.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kusanku:
Robb- Shorinn ryu is generally considered to be the combination of shuri te and tomari te, often with some Naha te added.
The differences between the three was mostly political.
But, many tomari versions of kata are still practiced.
For instance, there is tomari Passai, and also tomari seisan, shurite seisan, and nahate seisan.
Tomarite katas are generally the Tomari Seisan done in Okinawn Kenpo,Naihanchi, practiced as by Shoshin Nagamines style of Matsubayashi ryu, as well as Wansu/Wanshu, Wankan,rohai, and maybe chinto too.
Shurite katas are HookiyuGata ichi, Taikyoku One-three done by Funakoshi, Pinan, Kusanku,Passai Sho and Dai,Itosu Naihanchi,Shurite seisan,Shurite chinto or gankaku,and so forth.
Nahati katas include sanchin, Naha seisan,sanseiryu or sandairu,and a mess of others,including gekisai dai ichi and ni, tensho, seienchin, saifa,shisochin, kururunfa, seipai,niseisi, ueseishi sho and dai, sochin and unshu, suparinpai.
Some may disagree or add or subtract to this classification They may well be right.
John
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