Has anyone read A Book of Five Rings (Go Rin No Sho)? It is a book of combat strategy written by the much celebrated samuari Miyamoto Musashi. I have owned the book for about two years and find it to be facinating.
If any one is intrested in reading any of the text you can find the complete book at
http://www.samurai.com/5rings/
Comments would be much appreciated.
Go Rin No Sho
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Ted Dinwiddie
- Posts: 537
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Go Rin No Sho
Definitely a very interesting book. I wonder what the original, in Japanese, is like, since I do not know the language. I have seen a couple of translations and have heard that some are MUCH better than others. As a language major (German) in college I can attest to the potential inaccuracy and lost meaning with a bad translation.
Incidently, you should check out SunTzu's ART of WAR. It is older than Go Rin No Sho and you will find some of the same information, plus much more.
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
[This message has been edited by Ted Dinwiddie (edited March 20, 2002).]
Incidently, you should check out SunTzu's ART of WAR. It is older than Go Rin No Sho and you will find some of the same information, plus much more.
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ted
"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke
[This message has been edited by Ted Dinwiddie (edited March 20, 2002).]
Go Rin No Sho
"Incidently, you should check out SunTzu's ART of WAR. It is older than Go Rin No Sho and you will find some of the same information, plus much more."
Thank you for this information. I have thought about buying The Art of War for a while, but didn't know what it was about specifically. Now I think I will buy this book as well. Amazon.com seems to have good prices on these types of manuscripsts.
Thank you for this information. I have thought about buying The Art of War for a while, but didn't know what it was about specifically. Now I think I will buy this book as well. Amazon.com seems to have good prices on these types of manuscripsts.
Go Rin No Sho
Sun Tzu's "Art of War" is more about broader strategy, including engagement if need be.
Musashi's "Book of Five Rings" is more about tactics when the decision has been made to engage.
david
Musashi's "Book of Five Rings" is more about tactics when the decision has been made to engage.
david
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turbotort2000
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Sacramento Calfiornia USA
Go Rin No Sho
I have read it a couple of times recommended lots of times bought it as presents for martial artists who didn't have a copy of it and keep a small travel size one when I am on road trips. It was one of the most read books in the world, and one of the first books dealing with psychology and combat. I don't want to sound too fanatical but I think that this is one of those books that everyone in martial arts should at least investigate.
Go Rin No Sho
Ah, A excellent swordsman and an excellent book. I've read the Go Rin No Sho, it truly is a great book, but for such a great swordsman could any less be expected? I forget now, but does the G.R.N.S. Mention Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu/Double Heaven School?
-David
-David
Go Rin No Sho
What about Clausewitz' "On War"? How do y'all see it comparing to the Musashi and Sun Tzu treatises?
One note on Sun Tzu and Musashi: Stephen Kaufman has done translations of both that are geared specifically to the martial artist. He was trying to counter the corporate interpretations of both that became so popular in the 80s and 90s, and trying to present translations that bring them back to their martial roots.
By the way, there are some compilation books focusing on the classics of strategy, including Musashi and Sun Tzu but also including others. The best is probably Thomas Cleary's "Classics of Strategy and Counsel" (2 vols.) There are also some books that analyze the ideas of the different books on strategy, such as "Masters of War" by Michael Handel and the "Roots of Strategy" series. If you want to investigate the ideas of strategy further, these may be useful to you.
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Glenn
One note on Sun Tzu and Musashi: Stephen Kaufman has done translations of both that are geared specifically to the martial artist. He was trying to counter the corporate interpretations of both that became so popular in the 80s and 90s, and trying to present translations that bring them back to their martial roots.
By the way, there are some compilation books focusing on the classics of strategy, including Musashi and Sun Tzu but also including others. The best is probably Thomas Cleary's "Classics of Strategy and Counsel" (2 vols.) There are also some books that analyze the ideas of the different books on strategy, such as "Masters of War" by Michael Handel and the "Roots of Strategy" series. If you want to investigate the ideas of strategy further, these may be useful to you.
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Glenn
Go Rin No Sho
Glen,
Supposedly, Clauswitz was influenced by Sun Tzu. Haven't read his treatise yet though.
Just my opinion, I DISLIKE Kaufman's take on the book of five rings. He creeps in modern stuff that is just distracting. I don't trust his translation.
I like Cleary's works in general. East Asian philosophy is his forte, translating many obscure stuff. I think he has a better and broader sense of historical and cultural context than Kaufman.
FWIW, which is .02.
david
Supposedly, Clauswitz was influenced by Sun Tzu. Haven't read his treatise yet though.
Just my opinion, I DISLIKE Kaufman's take on the book of five rings. He creeps in modern stuff that is just distracting. I don't trust his translation.
I like Cleary's works in general. East Asian philosophy is his forte, translating many obscure stuff. I think he has a better and broader sense of historical and cultural context than Kaufman.
FWIW, which is .02.
david
Go Rin No Sho
"Ah, A excellent swordsman and an excellent book. I've read the Go Rin No Sho, it truly is a great book, but for such a great swordsman could any less be expected? I forget now, but does the G.R.N.S. Mention Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu/Double Heaven School?"
Yes, at the end of one of the books I believe that it mentions the Niten school. It is also mentioned during some of the passages.
Yes, at the end of one of the books I believe that it mentions the Niten school. It is also mentioned during some of the passages.
Go Rin No Sho
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by david:
Just my opinion, I DISLIKE Kaufman's take on the book of five rings. He creeps in modern stuff that is just distracting. I don't trust his translation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To be honest I've never read either of Kaufman's translations. I was mainly going by what others have told me.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
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Glenn
Just my opinion, I DISLIKE Kaufman's take on the book of five rings. He creeps in modern stuff that is just distracting. I don't trust his translation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To be honest I've never read either of Kaufman's translations. I was mainly going by what others have told me.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I agree about Cleary. I have read quite a few of his translations, including Sun Tzu and Musashi, and am generally impressed with his work, particularly his commentary and analysis. I cannot really say anything about the accuracy of his translation, since I cannot read the originals, but he has the credentials and his work is always well received by the translation critics, so I feel confident that his translations are accurate. Shambhala publishing offers quite a few of his translations in paperback.I like Cleary's works in general. East Asian philosophy is his forte, translating many obscure stuff. I think he has a better and broader sense of historical and cultural context than Kaufman.
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Glenn
Go Rin No Sho
I was reading a magazine last night and came across a description of a new translation published last year that might be of interest.
Is anyone familiar with "A Way to Victory: The Annotated Book of Five Rings" by Hidy Ochiai (2001). Ochiai trains in Washin Ryu karate and has also written a couple of books on karate and self-defense.
Here is what the book jacket says (copied from the Barnes and Noble site):
"Although it was written over 300 years ago as a treatise on strategy and combat, Miyamoto Musashi's The Book of Five Rings is heralded today as a classic work that speaks almost equally to the businessperson, the philosopher, and the practitioner of the martial arts. In A Way to Victory, Hidy Ochiai - a legend in the martial arts world who has devoted much of his life to the teachings of Musashi - provides both a new translation of The Book of Five Rings and annotations that clarify the text's lessons in strategy for the contemporary reader." "Ochiai's new translation represents a seven-year effort not only to render the wisdom and spirit of Musashi's timeless teachings, but to painstakingly maintain the completeness and precision of his original words. Ochiai then follows each of the five volumes of the book with an in-depth analysis of that section's themes, offering the work as a constructive method of overcoming challenges in life, personal or otherwise. A Way to Victory is a testament to the lasting importance of The Book of Five Rings. It is the perfect complement to Musashi's classic work."
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Glenn
Is anyone familiar with "A Way to Victory: The Annotated Book of Five Rings" by Hidy Ochiai (2001). Ochiai trains in Washin Ryu karate and has also written a couple of books on karate and self-defense.
Here is what the book jacket says (copied from the Barnes and Noble site):
"Although it was written over 300 years ago as a treatise on strategy and combat, Miyamoto Musashi's The Book of Five Rings is heralded today as a classic work that speaks almost equally to the businessperson, the philosopher, and the practitioner of the martial arts. In A Way to Victory, Hidy Ochiai - a legend in the martial arts world who has devoted much of his life to the teachings of Musashi - provides both a new translation of The Book of Five Rings and annotations that clarify the text's lessons in strategy for the contemporary reader." "Ochiai's new translation represents a seven-year effort not only to render the wisdom and spirit of Musashi's timeless teachings, but to painstakingly maintain the completeness and precision of his original words. Ochiai then follows each of the five volumes of the book with an in-depth analysis of that section's themes, offering the work as a constructive method of overcoming challenges in life, personal or otherwise. A Way to Victory is a testament to the lasting importance of The Book of Five Rings. It is the perfect complement to Musashi's classic work."
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Glenn
Go Rin No Sho
Sun Tzu's Art of War is an excellent work on the psychology of combat as well as a very interesting treatise on strategy and tactics.
"Never leave an opponent without a means of honorable escape. An opponent with no other venues but that of combat or death will fight more dangerously and do more harm."
Musashi Miyamoto's Gorin No Sho is far more tactical in it's approach, looking at the Way of each person's profession and how it applies.
I would also add Von Clausewitz's On War [i/] as an excellent addition to your reading. Von Clausewitz is the father of modern warfare and shows why the team approach (with a competent team) will ALWAYS beat the talented individual combatant, no matter how good they may be.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
"Never leave an opponent without a means of honorable escape. An opponent with no other venues but that of combat or death will fight more dangerously and do more harm."
Musashi Miyamoto's Gorin No Sho is far more tactical in it's approach, looking at the Way of each person's profession and how it applies.
I would also add Von Clausewitz's On War [i/] as an excellent addition to your reading. Von Clausewitz is the father of modern warfare and shows why the team approach (with a competent team) will ALWAYS beat the talented individual combatant, no matter how good they may be.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
