9/11, Sadman, and all that

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 10:03 pm

Originally from Vans's forum

In the past I’ve asked a lot of questions regarding 9/11, the invasion of Afghanistan, and the subsequent attack on Iraq. The reason being was that I could not see any connection between all three events. I had hoped that somebody else might be able to shed light on this, but on this forum I have been surprised at how unquestioning people are, they just seem to accept things. Especially if the US government says it’s ok.
I have never understood why folks were not more concerned about getting to the bottom of 9/11. I have never heard anybody even give a reason for it. It’s like Marge out of the Simpsons asking Homer and he says “ They’re Terrorists Honey”….as though these guys just had a few too many Buds and decided to fly a plane into something.
Why hasn’t there been an enquiry?…what about the black boxes?…what about the first reports about a truck exploding outside the White House? I am amazed that nobody seems that concerned. I mean if a couple of planes can fly on the wrong flight paths for hours without at least being challenged. Isn’t that a cause for concern? What if they had nuclear payloads?
Terrorists will always let you know their demands, if they hijack a plane for example, they will always tell you what they want in return for the lives of the passengers. So why didn’t these guys?
Well! My theory is that they did and that it has been suppressed because it would be too embarrassing for the Bush administration. I think that they probably said something like “ Carry on supplying Israel with weapons and you will be attacked”, and I think Bush ignored the threat, and they went ahead and did just that. (If only he’d listened to Clinton’s warning about terrorism).

The subsequent invasion of Afghanistan was to remove a possible threat, in the form of “ Terror camps”, but not a threat to the US. A threat to Israel, and that is why Saddam has to go to. The US has not said anything recently, against the Israeli’s expansionist plans. In fact there has even been some endorsement. I would predict even more US support for Israel, in the form of massive Foreign Aid programmes. Thus creating a Jewish super state which will contain and control the middle East, and it’s oil, and stop more terror attacks against the US.
In light of this, if you believe the theory, you may ask what could Bush do? I don’t know he was pressed into a corner, however I do not believe that this will control terrorism will swell the ranks of Al Qaeda and make the US and the UK just as viable targets as Israel. That was why I didn’t want a war

Gene DeMambro · Post by **Gene DeMambro** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 11:47 pm

Your post reeks of "conspiracy theory". What are you saying, that 9-11 didn't unfold before our eyes like most rational people believe it did?

And the planes were challenged by F-16 fighter jets piloted by members of the Massachusetts Air Force National Guard from Otis Air Force Base. They were in pursuit at supersonic speeds and were trying to make radio contact with the hijacked planes. They arrived in New York airspace just in time....to see the second plane hit.

And the reason why there isn't mention of a truck exploding outside the White House is becasue it didn't happen. Nor was there a bombing of the State Department building, either.

And the terrorists didn't let us know their demands before the disco bombing in Germany, or the Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, or the USS Cole bombing, or the US embassy bombings in Africa.

Apart from the already sticky situation regarding the Jewish settlements in Israel/Palestine, what other information do you have to share regarding Israel's "expansionist plans"?

Jweish super state? HAH! That would be laughable if it wasn't so insidiously wrong, much like Pat Buchanan's writings and policies. There aren't enough Jews in all the world to populate a Jewish super state, the entire Arab world wouldn't stand for it, nor would the US. The US enjoys excellent relations with Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait and (currrently, at least) Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Jewish super state? Please!

Gene

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:58 pm

Hi Gene,
This has got to be a conspiracy theory, because we do not know the facts, they have been with held. Why wasn't there a public enquiry into 9/11?
What the hell has Afghanistan and Iraq got to do with 9/11?.....were they training pilots in Afghanistan to fly planes?....I don't think so, in the name of propoganda there have been pathetic attempts to link Saddam to 9/11 and Al Qaeda....yet when all these fail, somebody will pop up with another reason another attempt to link him however tenuously to the twin towers or some other atcocity in the US. After a while you begin to look at the people making the links, and think of them suspiciously.
check out
http://www.terrorismanswers.com/policy/ ... d2.html#Q9
America gives more aid to Israel than anywhere else and $2.1 billion of that goes on weapons.
Now the only people that I know who use suicide bombers are the Palestinians

......and 9/11 was a suicide bombing...albeit on a very large scale......sooo maybe there is a link?.............Don't misunderstand me GENE.......I am not saying that this theory will go anywhere, but if I can think it, I am sure that an Arab can also think it.
check out
http://www.anzwers.org/free/beyondstars/amerhate.htm
The point that I am really making is that the only people who know the reasons for the war against Iraq are the Bush administration..........Bush was going to war whatever happened right from the very start......so whose next....Korea?....what have they got to do with 9/11 or al Qaeda,Afghanistan or Iraq.

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:07 pm

Debate, discuss and hypothesize as much as you want, but keep it to a civil debate, discussion, hypothesis, or theory.

I'm interested in reading the debate as much as anyone and I'm all for finding out more information.

Be forewarned... I generally won't tolerate name-calling, or BS tactics. However, there will be a lot of leeway granted if it is accompanied by sources, cites and presentation of facts...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions...

regkray · Post by **regkray** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:31 pm

Hi,

I've got to admit on the whole I agree with Jorvik. something doesn't smell right here.

9/11 has nothing to do with Iraq yet that is what Bush seems to want us to believe.

It seems to me like a huge smoke screen.

9/11 happened, the US go after Bin Laden (the guy who did it right, remember him?)

Then without a inbreath the US are after Hussain?

Not only that there is little or no mention of Bin laden during the war with Iraq?

Now whatever Hussain was/is up to he was not attacking the States, Bin Laden was/is???

We're MA's right?

Someone attacks you. Do you defend yourself against him or go find an old enemy to fight?

Does this confuse anyone else??

RK

Scott Danziger · Post by **Scott Danziger** » Thu May 08, 2003 2:39 am

We attacked Iraq because Bush wanted revenge. And also to send a message to the to the world. Don't ##### with US! Live with it. It's done.

Afghanistan harbored and was the main training ground for Al Qaeda. Though the cell in Hamburg is where the terrorists came from.

And where did Richard Reid come from.... Duh... ENGLAND!! Or maybe you think the Israeli mossad sent microwaves beams to his brain and hypmotized him.

Oh.. and who were the red brigade's and badr Meinof groups bombing our cars and bases in Germany in the late 70's and early 80's? Who do you want to blame for those assholes?

And some terror groups alignd with Bin dickweed were found in Northern Iraq fighting the Kurds. But that's not why we went there.

Jesus H. Christ! These forums are becoming like the crap on rec-martial.arts. No wonder I rarely post any more.

Hey, maybe next season's "24" will explain it all. We'll send in Jack Baur to figure it all out and get to the bottom of it. Just leave his daughter behind though, she's hot.

As Cheech once said... I am getting sick up and fed.

regkray · Post by **regkray** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:13 pm

Hi

You think 'revenge' and saying to the world don't **** with the US is a good reason for the us bombing people???????????????

Do you have a spell checker scott.

RK

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Thu May 08, 2003 4:52 pm

Everyone misspells words when typing a response quickly. People also mess up their grammar. AND they make other mistakes.

The query about a spellchecker was completely unneccessary.

I will not be giving many warnings against breaking the rules in the future.

Thaws · Post by **Thaws** » Fri May 09, 2003 12:28 am

We were attacked because of our perceived unbalanced middle-east policies, our line of "democracy and human rights" while at the same time holding hands with repressive governments( the Saudi's) and useless as well as tragic sanctions against civilians(Iraq- does anyone really believe the sanctions accomplished anything other than kicking the Iraqi people when they were already down? See Cuba) Bush did what he had to do whether it was "right " or not. The responsibility of wearing the superpower hat (which we gladly accept) is stepping up and dealing with the messy situations. Sometimes we react too late(Ruwanda) but there was nothing for us to gain economically from stepping in there(money is the bottom line). Europe demonstrated its impotence with Bosnia and her sisters, Russia couldn't stick its thumb up its a** with both hands, so whos left? We are dealing with terrorism as we see fit, we here dont all agree on the targets, but at least we're doing something. As opposed to Europes' method of negotiating (as you alluded to) what did that get you? More terrorism. You guys made terrorism a proffitable and safe adventure.

Scott Danziger · Post by **Scott Danziger** » Fri May 09, 2003 1:49 am

First.... Don't like my spelling? Like I care.

Second. The reasons (opinions) I gave does/may not reflect my opinion at all. I do believe it was Bush's reason for going to Iraq. Truthfully, I wish we did it in 1991 so all this crap for the last 12 years wouldn't have been neccessary like the fly zones and sanctions.

One thing I also forgot to mention was that this was not the first time Arab exremists tried to take down the World Trade Center. In 1993 they tried to topple one tower into the other with a truck bomb. Then the geniuses went back to where they rented the truck to get their deposit back. That's how they got caught. Conspiracy there?????

If anything I've reacted to here insulted anyone I apologize. However if it infuriated anyone, cool. It gets my goat when I hear of Israeli conspiracies when America and it's interests are attacked. As much as I truly hate Sharon's government I in no way believe they would do such a thing. Cause if it was ever true and found out it would be over for them and they know it.

I guess you had to be in the military November 1979 when Islamic radicals calling themselves "students" took over the American Embassy in Tehran. You develop a different mindset over the years.

Scott

regkray · Post by **regkray** » Fri May 09, 2003 11:18 am

Hi guys,

OK to get off the Iraq war and whether it was just or not what about the other issue?

Bin Laden.

Yeah i know some of you will say it's the same issue, but to concentrate on that exclusively for the moment.

What is Bush doing about Bin at the moment.

We all agree it was Bin Laden who attacked the US right, whether in collusion with some one else or not?

Is the US near to catching Bin Laden, are the military on his tail?

I genuinely don't know.

I have not heard any reports on what bush and his army is doing regarding Bins attack on the States.

I would have thought he would be more worried about that than saving the rest of the world.

Please update me.

Thank you

steven

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Fri May 09, 2003 1:25 pm

There are still troops in Afghanistan and still operations targeted directly at Bin Laden & Al Queda.

Thaws · Post by **Thaws** » Sat May 10, 2003 3:27 am

I heard an interesting point on NPR that sounded the most plausible for what we're doing and why. It seems that some hawkish factions within the CIA and FBI distort intelligence and feed it to the powers that be to achieve their own goals. Apparently the "intelligence" we recieve mostly comes from Iraqi exiles and dissidents From the opposition, whose primary goal is to overtrow the regime. So they are prepared, really prepared , to say whatever those "intelligence" officials want to hear, and be rewarded for it too. Then Colin Powell, the only administration official with any real integrity, is made to profess a litany of half truths and some total fabrications to justify the administration's aims. So the fault lies with the "intelligence" community , and that who is guiding our foriegn policy.

regkray · Post by **regkray** » Sat May 10, 2003 9:59 am

Hi

That sounds disconsertingly vague Panther?

Considering all the info you have on Iraq.

I was asking abut an organization that successfully attacked your own country? Is that all you know about the operations?

What is Bush saying about it.

He says a lot about Iraq and they never attacked the US?

Does anyone else know what bush is doing against Bin, and where bin is?

RK

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Sun May 11, 2003 2:58 am

Vague... yup.

Talked with a Lt. in the USMC tonight who carried two U.S. Flags with him on his missions throughout Afghanistan "and other countries where we are going after these terrorist factions" (yes... direct quote). One flag was given to an organization that I'm a part of and the other was put up for auction to benefit a 503C charity. Very worthy cause. There are tens of thousands of troops out there (not in Iraq) following the leads and going after Bin Laden, Al Queda and their ilk. I was asked not to mention much of the conversation... and I won't. The man is very trustworthy and I personally believe him.

9/11, Sadman, and all that

9/11, Sadman, and all that

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