Most effective teaching methods...

Mike your Reply...and.........

Postby Dave Young » Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:58 pm

Thank you for your well written response. You asked about what resources have been used to pull this system together. I will do my best to answer this for you.

As I mentioned before, I live in a world professionally that has to make sure that what we teach is not only effective but;

Remembered under times of stress;

I am a technical advisor to the Force Science Research Center which operates out of University of Minnesota, headed by Doctor Bill Lewinsky. This foundation was initiated to help support scientifically what we have know all along about human behavior in combat and high critical incidents, but have not been able to prove. We conduct research on many different platforms focusing on human behavioral responses, action vs. reaction, memory, physical abilities as it compares to the actual physical inabilities that are created by stress etc.....

Can be performed by most people who practice it;

This is a main factor and is very relevant because YES, the best techniques if one that is remembered by the students, but more importantly needs to be executed in a correct manner...This is one of the biggest problems when teaching students about ANY perfect practice is always needed, most TMA techniques in general take a while to become I a not saying that it is all difficult, but because it is packaged for the long haul, many go to a school but rarely practice. So the ole saying of keep it simple only works for the students who has taken the time to understand each movement....we have found that this is not the case in the reality world....most people do not either take the time, make the time or invest the time to become this system is based on 3 simple protocols of application;

1. You must be able to teach the technique within 3 east steps;
2. Must be able to remember these steps under stress;
3. Can execute the technique in a variety of physical encounters;

A lot of these resources are available in my professional circle. The FBI publishes a uniform crime report which highlights attacks, crimes and other important information that has happened throughout the United States. Department of Justice is another good resource, Your local newspapers, NRA is a resource on home and personal attacks, and if you are connected with the state attorney general offices in each state the information that is released from this resource is priceless. By using all of these in combination one can truly get the facts on what actually happens in regards to personal attacks and what has been tried and what worked and didn't work.

Is current with todays acceptance in society;

This is very important because a personal survival system that is NOT documented, and supported for courtroom defense fails the student in the total package of teaching them how to defense themselves...Our programs have gone through a 3 prong process.

1. Legal Soundness - Having professionals in both criminal and civil arenas review your techniques for this area is very important, we use lawyers within the criminal justice systems for this support. Being able to defend your programs Technically and Tactically is critical for surviving in the courtroom.

2. Medical Soundness - Having certified doctors and medical specialists review your programs for the medical support needed to help defend your techniques in court for either criminal or civil action is important for many reasons that are obvious but also important to understand how to explain the importance of justification in regards to injuries, either minor or long lasting, or bodily harm which may result in death.

3. Tactical Soundness - Having other professionals who are recognized domestically and internationally as experts in their field review your material and document their concerns or comments supporting the personal survivability reinforces the program on a level most programs never complete or attempt.

I hope this answered your question. And thank you for the invitation to come to CA. You said you are not in a position to host such a training program but maybe where you go now to train may. Present this to them, get their response...either way you have made an effort to bring this system to there area and maybe just maybe they are as open minded about training and personal survival as you are. Thanks again and stay safe.

Dave Young
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Postby Van Canna » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:25 pm

So my question is more of an intellectual query. In other words, I am curious to know what historical sources have been drawn upon to develop modern combative systems?

I am glad that you asked such an intelligent question, Mike, because it prompted the priceless response by Dave Young. Up until now lots of TMAs lurkers and or active forum contributors were still in the fog as to what the ‘experts’ and specialists, I have been referring to over the years, were all about conceptually.

These people felt ‘slammed’ _ ‘dissed’ and unable to sleep nights while drafting personal complaints to George ‘behind the lines’ _

In prior discussions about the marriage of TMA and modern combatives’ concepts _ as validated by real life daily encounters by the people who are ‘professionally’ exposed to daily violence_ What we have found on these forums in all manners of discourse, were all kinds of ridiculous accusations _ manipulating posted ideas _ in order to suit one’s ideology and or obdurate points of view.

Some were driven to find an insult where none was ever intended and so instead of really reading and comprehending what was written, they read into it.
Then conveniently developed an interpretation so as to fortify their point of view.

The accusations were more than nonsense. They were a deception, fueled either by ignorance or a deliberate ideology where truth is less critical than scoring an emotional point.

Hopefully they will not continue to be busy moving on to some other distortions.

And let us put this one at rest. Thanks for the chance to ‘air’ these concerns Mike, and for your help in promoting Dave's exceptional material.

Just the information and training in how to 'combat' the second enemy/most formidable one [criminal and civil fighters] is worth the price of admission. Something Traditional practitioners don't have a G_damn clue. :(

BTW, Mike, did you ever buy the umbrella liability policy I have been discussing for years on end?
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Postby Van Canna » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:42 pm

We conduct research on many different platforms focusing on human behavioral responses, action vs. reaction, memory, physical abilities as it compares to the actual physical inabilities that are created by stress etc.....

After having read Bruce Siddle's 'Sharpening the Warrior's Edge' a book I presented on the forums years ago, and one I highly recommend you buy, Mike, I understand very well what Dave is saying.

My concern and others, who are serious about their teachings, should be concerned about what their practice 'embeds' in the long run by taking a look at what they do and understand the 'why' _

just telling people 'you have to go deeper' without being able to explain how and why and when they can demonstrate it under reality scenarios, leaves many people bored stiff.

I can already see some taking emotional umbrage to these words.

No_ I am no 'dissing' our Uechi practice_ :wink:
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Postby Joe Graziano » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:36 am

Hi Dave,

I've been reading a lot about you and I am very positively impressed.

Although Mike does not train with me, I consider him a friend as we originated from the same dojo many years ago.

I'd be happy to host you (and have Mike and other interested students participate), should you wish to come to SoCal and share your knowledge and expertise with us.

In addition to being a Uechi student, I'm a fellow LEO and UOF trainer as I run the DT program as Senior Defensive Tactics Instructor in the LA area for ICE.

It would be my pleasure to meet you and train together. I'd also be honored to have you as my guest at one or more of our ICE LEO training sessions (this coming quarter, Oct. - Dec., inc., as I and my DTI's will be conducting training in the intermediate force option of the MEB and other expandable batons.)


P.S. Feel free to respond via PM if you prefer, and we can go from there.
Joe Graziano
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Thanks Joe, it is nice to meet you....

Postby Dave Young » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:29 pm

Thank you for your kind words, it is always nice to hear positive comments especially coming from a fellow professional, as yourself. I am sure you keep yourself busy, and would be an honor to train with you. My personal email address is , you can reach me there and I can get a better idea of what your thoughts are in regards to the LEO training.

The introduction to the civilian Realist program in March we are doing in Mount Dora, FL is a 6 phase process consisting of 3 days, 8-10 hours per day of training. We are going to try to put one phase every 4-6 months and see how this works out.

I had to break it down nto 3 days of training as most civilians do not have the time to spend at a few one week sessions. If you would like to be the west coast location I am interested in talking with you more about that.

It has been an interesting and personal learning experience with me in regards to meeting new martial artists. Hearing their thoughts, ideas, and I am looking forward to being able to spend more time with them. Thanks again for your post and I look forward to talking more about this with you.

Stay Safe, Stay Strong more importantly Stay Alive!

Dave Young
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Postby sgoss1 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:40 pm


We did meet at GEM's 25th anniversary Summer Camp and I had an opportunity to train with you and sample your system. As a matter of fact, I gravitated toward your training sessions because I recognized its value.

Any "disucssions" of the relative merit of "traditional" practice and "reality-based" practice is rather fultile. We can't change those peoples' minds who don't want to change or who are somehow threatened by inferences that what they have done for a number of years is valueless.

I read over and over in this forum that Van does not criticize anyone's efforts, nor does he criticize traditional practice. The message I get from it is that some feel there are limitations in ANY system, if the individual chooses to see it that way--I happen to be one of those people. I don't beieve any system is "complete". Nor do I believe there is an end-all in training--individuals train to levels that meet their needs. An LEO is naturally going to train a little differently than a civilian, for example, as is a special operations soldier.

Will any system make an individual a "superman"?--able to overcome any threat? I really doubt it. Anyone claiming such would be lying to himself and others.

That all having been said, I'd like to contact you about your program as well. California may be calling you one way or the other, Dave.

Steven Goss
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Bad Memory....Yes I do remember we even ate a meal together

Postby Dave Young » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:54 pm

When I saw the first name and location I immediately remembered you Steven. I hope this email finds you and your family well and in the best of health. Your comments are right on the money in regards to what we are trying to do.

My email address is . Email me if you want to bring this program to your area. I can send you the logistics, pricing and other things we need to get this committed in your area. How far are you from LA, as I am talking with Joe from the LA area on bringing our program to his area. If they are a ways apart we can schedule one in both places for 2007. However I know that as soon as we can get one scheduled in CA especially being such a big state things will start moving forward regardless of the pace.

Thanks so much for your post and I look forward to seeing you again!

Stay Safe, Stay Strong and Most Importantly Stay Alive!

Dave Young
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Postby sgoss1 » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:03 pm

Thanks, Dave

I've sent an email to the address you gave.


I participated in it. I believe it works. I believe that, no matter how good you are (or think you are), Dave's system will make you better, and will give you a fresh look at things.

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Disagreeing is very much OK and Acceptable in here....

Postby Dave Young » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:48 pm

However, the measure of what one gives of themselves regardless if they are a less desirable then others is valued by people differently, which this measure is on itself of personal opinion...Who are you to really judge the life of another...Did you grow up with this person, or know about them intimately from first hand, or only see on the surface and then drew this conclusion from a shallow, lack of in depth knowledge of this person?

On the surface people might have showed respect in the community as a parade or show of kindness...but this displayed or shown respect could have also been a display of people being scared to stand up for themselves and afraid of any retaliation by those who are still alive and living in the area or neighborhood. I often find this the case in situations a like this.

If you can look outside of the box you live in know you would have seen that the statement of,"By how many people attend your funeral." You would have seen that a person's true measure of worth of live is not for what they own and posses, but measured by the amount or capacity of what they give of themselves.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your opinion. Stop by our other threads.

Stay Safe, Stay strong and Stay Alive!

Dave Young
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Postby miked » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:56 am


Thanks for the summation of the sources used to develop your training sessions.

I would be more than happy to attend a session if we can work it out in Southern Cal. or Central Cal. FYI, Joe G. is based in Orange County, CA and Steve G. is based in San Luis Obispo which is Central Coast (about 3.5 to 4 hours) away from LA.

Due to the distances, it may be better, to schedule separate sessions in both areas.

All the best,

Mike D
Los Angeles

P.s. Van, I have to renew my existing unbrella policy by the 16th. of October. Could you please provide a link to the policy that you recommend.
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