French bravery - the classic oxymoron

Willy · Post by **Willy** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:40 am

Hell hope no one is losing sleep over this

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:43 am

The Yankees beat the Bosox, man. That'll keep a Red Sox fan up at night...

- Bill

Valkenar · Post by **Valkenar** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:36 pm

I think Laird has a point, Bill. You posted a list of derogatory things about the french, and didn't make any obvious effort to say "here's a bunch of offensive jokes that I disagree with." In fact, you titled the thread "French bravery - the classic oxymoron." Just because you didn't come up with the jokes yourself doesn't mean you're justified in crying "don't shoot the messenger." By posting some very strongly opinionated comments, with some approving text around it, you're voicing a definite point of view. I think most reasonable people who don't know you will draw the conclusion conclude that you agree with the sentiments. Akil Todd Harvey's posts about women are similar in nature. For a long time he posted inflamatory articles without any commentary, but that didn't invalidate the conclusion that he agreed with the articles. It's generally obvious when someone's trying to make a point by posting someone else's words. What else is a citation, after all?

I'm not saying potentially offensive joke lists should be forbidden or anything. Just that you ought to at least admit the prejudice that it represents when you post something like that .If someone took a news story about crime in black neighborhoods and then followed it up with jokes about how black people are criminally inclined, I would be surprised if anyone didn't see the prejudice in it. I don't actually think you hate the french as much as it seems here, but still, that is the way it comes across.

As to the political situation, I think your point is valid. I think the French government has an obligation to support the measures that they insist on. I don't really have anything else to add on that subject, however. Tsk, tsk is about the extent of my opinion on it, at this moment.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:25 pm

Thanks, Justin. Your sentiments were articulated by others, but I think you did a pretty good job of pulling them together. Your points and Adam's as well were well written and are well taken.

- Bill

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:34 pm

Quote
"The Muslim riots last fall in Paris and elsewhere in France were a very telling period in time. It is what it is. The French now know what it's like to have a disenfranchised minority living in significant numbers and now citizens of their country. It's very similar to what's going on with the Shia in Lebanon. The disenfranchised are vulnerable to the preachings of folks such as Bin Laden."
The French are very intollerent of anybody living in their country and not trying to be French. A black man could join the French National front no problem.
the French will not permit the wearing of any religious symbolism and that included the burkah and they will stand by that..unlike in my country where tony bliar's ugly wife represented a school girl who wanted to wear one but wasn't permited to at school.
I totally agree with the French attitude. If people want to live in my country then they should be made to adopt the English language and culture, this has not been the case and you can see it with the London bombings. there are people who where born and raised in my country and still see themselves as foreign

IMHO that is their problem
and having said all that like the French I am deeply opposed to what has happened in the Lebbanon ( as I am with Iraq).and I would certainly not like to see troops sent into the conflict. America supplies Israel so they have more of an influence than anybody...Imagine the outcry in America if
The UK had bombed dublin at the time of the troubles with the ira, that is exactly the same situation you have here.....and guess whose been training hexbollah in the use of bombs

....you got it.those nice men in the ira

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:48 pm

there are people who where born and raised in my country and still see themselves as foreign IMHO that is their problem

That drives me crazy in the USA also. Ask most people around me and they'll say they are Irish even though born here in the USA.

I have Scottish, English, German and Canadian blood but I'm an American.

I speak English Bawston style, love apple pie and Chevy's and love the fireworks on the Fourth of July.

I thank the French for the fries, the Statue of Liberty, and their support which allowed us our freedom.

F.

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:15 am

deleted

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:55 am

jorvik wrote:Quote
"The Muslim riots last fall in Paris and elsewhere in France were a very telling period in time. It is what it is. The French now know what it's like to have a disenfranchised minority living in significant numbers and now citizens of their country. It's very similar to what's going on with the Shia in Lebanon. The disenfranchised are vulnerable to the preachings of folks such as Bin Laden."
The French are very intollerent of anybody living in their country and not trying to be French. A black man could join the French National front no problem.
the French will not permit the wearing of any religious symbolism and that included the burkah and they will stand by that..unlike in my country where tony bliar's ugly wife represented a school girl who wanted to wear one but wasn't permited to at school.
I totally agree with the French attitude. If people want to live in my country then they should be made to adopt the English language and culture, this has not been the case and you can see it with the London bombings. there are people who where born and raised in my country and still see themselves as foreign IMHO that is their problem
and having said all that like the French I am deeply opposed to what has happened in the Lebbanon ( as I am with Iraq).and I would certainly not like to see troops sent into the conflict. America supplies Israel so they have more of an influence than anybody...Imagine the outcry in America if
The UK had bombed dublin at the time of the troubles with the ira, that is exactly the same situation you have here.....and guess whose been training hexbollah in the use of bombs ....you got it.those nice men in the ira

But a Burkah isnt a religious symbol, it's for a woman to not show herself(and by choice it should be)

Though i guess, in this day and age, i could be seen as one.

Maybe they should wear a hat or something to make up for it?

Orthodox african muslim woman have an interesting way of hiding thier hair.

No it's not a burkah, african american woman do it too, that wierd bandanna thingy.

It serves the same purpose, plus it looks cool.

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:42 am

On the french: Isn't it unwise to judge them?

For all we know in a hundred years, they will be known as some crazy badass nation with people who piss lightening and spit nails.

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:32 pm

And people wonder why more Frenchmen don't post here.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:49 pm

Good point, Mike.

This medium is difficult enough for people who have English as a first language. Even if you're a master of language, humor, and diplomacy, you WILL step on a land mine sooner or later. God forbid we be human.

With most who post, ignorance is bliss.

- Bill

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:11 pm

As a follow up...

It was a shame that Ryan Labbe-Clark got treated the way he did in this thread. I apologize. Sometimes when posting gets emotional, a moderator needs to get a bit heavy-handed to keep people from saying things they will later regret. And I tend to err on the side of caution, which means injustice is perceived by some.

I look forward to seeing Ryan online in the near future.

- Bill

MikeK · Post by **MikeK** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:18 pm

We should avoid picking on the French people, but to me the French govornment is fair game, and is what I am referring to if I use the word French unless otherwise noted.

I do feel bad for the small group of "Peacekeepers" that they sent as I'd guess that they aren't feeling the backing of their country's might behind them.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:29 am

Politics are fair game ... races arent , I`m with Mike on this one .

appreaciate the sentiment of your last post Bill , Ryans one of those rare guys you meet along the way if your lucky .

He has this martial stuff in his blood and we could all learn some things from him .

many do the arts a few live the arts , I suspect Ryan is the later .

AAAhmed46 · Post by **AAAhmed46** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:43 am

Stryke wrote:Politics are fair game ... races arent , I`m with Mike on this one .

appreaciate the sentiment of your last post Bill , Ryans one of those rare guys you meet along the way if your lucky .

He has this martial stuff in his blood and we could all learn some things from him .

many do the arts a few live the arts , I suspect Ryan is the later .

Yeah he's very talented.