It's all how you view it. (kata interpretation)

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Bill Glasheen
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It's all how you view it. (kata interpretation)

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Uechi Ryu's black belt yakusoku kumite (a.k.a. Dan Kumite) is a tool I have used for years, and felt quite comfortable modifying to serve my needs. At first when George saw me experimenting with it in the 1980s, he was a little irritated. It was all these "angles" that had him just a little rattled. But by the end of the dan test where my students were performing, his only request was that the students re-start in an East-West orientation from one sequence to the next so that the judges wouldn't get disoriented. Fair enough! 8)

Those who hate these exercises and sometimes bash them with junior-level representations of their execution will immediately "get" what I mean about that particular variation. Indeed I spend lots of time not teaching people to back up, but rather teaching them to manipulate and/or orient themselves around the lines of force. It becomes a vehicle to experiment with ideas, and not a fight per se. Once you take those kinds of steps, the sky's the limit.

And with that in mind...

My #6 sequence is a LOT more involved than the way most people do it. I understand how it starts with a loose interpretation of a Sanseiryu sequence (hawk chases sparrow, pivot to left into Sanchin dachi, pivot back to right in a double boshiken "take down" technique). But the thing is... the more folks try to get literal with the interpretation of kata, the more ridiculous it gets. However the more a rational fighter starts to ad lib and give both people votes in the outcome, the more this sequence can get very intricate.

For instance... One principle I have in Dan Kumite is that I DO NOT ALLOW either partner to just take a final blow. So you're dumped on the ground, eh? BFD!! Life doesn't end when you're on your back; for a BJJ practitioner, the fun just begins. So the dumpee uses leg postures from the Seisan jump crane position (leg slant) to allow them calmly to parry kicks coming at their groin from ANY angle. Stalemate. Now what? Once that stalemate has been established, I implore my students to "flip the pancake" and try to get at the dumpee's back. However... person on ground subsequently sets up for a leg takedown. If the standing individual does not respond, they get dumped. If they do via a simple crane leg lift, then it's a matter of person on ground presenting a further threat (difficult to explain this kick) to clear the area. Once the distance is established, I expect dumpee smoothly to get back up on their feet.

So just last Tuesday I was getting a little ticked that my standing partner was backing off every time they flipped my leg over. WTF??? I just let him throw me and back up. I stayed on the ground like a helpless victim. Oh... I'm supposed to keep the fight going? Yeeaaaa!!!! You must respond to my threat, and not simply back out.

To make a long story short... By the time I showed this person what I expected, it suddenly dawned on me that their response was a piecemeal Seisan jump back. First lift one leg, and then the next. Meanwhile the person on ground was protecting their leg and setting up for the take-down using the one-legged crane posture in that jump - only on their back.

It has taken 20 years for me to realize that I was stealing moves right out of Seisan kata. But there it was... or rather there it is.

This is the kind of stuff I keep trying to show to the style Nazis. With time, these kata are talking to me in ways that the Okinawans - teaching a simple set of routines - hadn't at all communicated to us. But the lessons were there right in the kata - for the USERS to figure out.

And that's the way it SHOULD be!

Off of soap box.

- Bill
Joe Bellone
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Post by Joe Bellone »

Amen Bill...Amen

Sincerely,
Joe
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Post by Victor Smith »

Hi Bill,

Though not a Uechi adept I always enjoy following this groups posts. Reading yours this morning started me on another youtube search on Yakusoku Kumite and I don't believe I had seen these videos before and thought you all may enjoy looking at them.

I'd particularly like knowing if the dan kumite you've been discussing is in the Yakusoku Kumite shown here?

Uechi-ryu
Pangainoon basics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=395BeNWt12A
foot techniques http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyC3aOSv3Y

Seichin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kufil9L2L_k
Seichin kata and bunkai kumite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJYFj4Kq1bw
Kanshyu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd5AzoyJ5t4
Kanshiwa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLWL6v9TBXE
Kanshiwa bunkai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PR4GKGlD0k
Seisan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acunTiqkM9g
Seisan bunkai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsDtQREAp78
Kiyohide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrfFmLhCfs
Sanseiru http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAe3dNf-oQ

Jiffa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZPJ2EklF2Y
Seijun no bo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkfdoH6e6w
Matsugawa no sai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_iiJwUV7sU

Yechi-ryu Yakusoku Kumite 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UprUuaHfjm8
Yechi-ryu Yakusoku Kumite 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEPhw0YX04I
Historcal Uechi-Ryu Kumite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciek8LmaI5Q

the original Yakusoku Kumite developed by the OkiKuKai that replaced Kyu Kumite and Dan Kumite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHzGz1ZU0k
Victor Smith
bushi no te isshinryu
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Thanks for all the clips here, Victor. I'll piece something together for you from these clips so that you'll follow what I've been talking about.

Bill
maxwell ainley
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Post by maxwell ainley »

Bill I think it can be quite humbling ,say after twenty or more years to make a discovery that was right under ones nose all the time .
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

maxwell ainley wrote:
Bill I think it can be quite humbling ,say after twenty or more years to make a discovery that was right under ones nose all the time .
I see what you mean!

I guess I have mixed feelings about this. The thing is, I had come up with my own embellishment of Dan Kumite #6 twenty years ago, and I came up with something that worked very well. However the more I refined my embellishments, the more the origin of my creativity began to reveal itself.

The revelation was less humbling and more reassuring. You see I've always had faith in the process of kata, and always believed that a principles-based study would be the most efficient path to freeform application. Little did I know that I was reaping the rewards 20 years ago by doing moves that - on reflection - came straight from ending postures in Seisan kata. Not only that, but I was using these postures both standing up AND on my back. THAT is the most rewarding epiphany for me. It validates my personal philosophy that all martial artists share a handful of the same principles. Each art specializes in one venue. But if you study enough different arts - particularly from the striking to the grappling ends - then you find that it takes less and less time to "get" how to apply the principles because you've already used them before. And sometimes you pick something up easily and don't really know why - until the underlying principle reveals itself to you.

- Bill
maxwell ainley
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Post by maxwell ainley »

The underlying principle ,sinks home .

This is really were the genius behind Kata presents its self ,your faith is affirmed once again .
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Post by IJ »

"By the time I showed this person what I expected, it suddenly dawned on me that their response was a piecemeal Seisan jump back."

You're getting senile Bill--you showed this to me in the 90s! :)
--Ian
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

IJ wrote:
You're getting senile Bill--you showed this to me in the 90s! :)
To paraphrase Henry Fonda in On Golden Pond when picking up Huckleberry Finn, "I've read this before. But it doesn't matter; it'll all be new to me!" ;)

Truth is, I believe senility is more associated with the loss of short-term memory. My excuse? My memory just plain sux. Just like a person with a photographic memory often has poor analytic skills due to a lazy brain, I tend to fall on the opposite end of that spectrum.

There's very little in the way of "new" discoveries in the world. Mostly it's just a matter of smart people finding new twists on old but profound ideas.

- Bill
Victor Smith
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Post by Victor Smith »

Another posting this morning;

UECHI Kanei
01 Sanchin (Moku Ho) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF1CZEL4Ltk
01 Sanchin (Kin Ho) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLT_1avh_gY
02 Seisan (short version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afv3dxm_bNI
03 Kochin (front View) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxZXCc0C6s
03 Kochin (side view) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUqFkDV3-PA
02Seisan (long version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MXQbz0NcyI
04 Sanseiryu (side view) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cCQ_SpszaM
04 Sanseiryu (front view) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6LCGlKz1dg

Uechi Ryu Kenseikai Senaga Yoshidzune
01 Kata Sanchin – Sanchin Kitae – theory & practice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpl4Ng-un0k
02 Kata Kanshiwa & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Uec ... UFKqBdoABs
03 Kata Kanshu & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcw-u4nV8SY
04 Kata Seichin & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxWVRLbV25g
05 Kata Seisan & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaA97idB0L0
06 Kata Seiryu & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYHvl5HgqAo
07 Kata Konchin & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhn0g0QDPdY
08 Kata Sanseiryu & Bunkai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OEA8aVDCTs
09 Kata Giken _ Uechi Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxxiyctzr4M
10

11 Ryu Tora Tsuru movements
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Uec ... P6-7vvIm8w
12 Ken No Neishyo names of fists Uechi-ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjB1diPgkTA
13 Hojo Undou – Uechi Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0J5R1FkGSQ
14 Hojo Undou no Bunkai - Uechi Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzVTYadWBi8
15 Makiwara Renshu – Tameshwari Uechi Ryu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mjLmGu_DIM
16 Kyu No Kumite Uechi Ryu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdJ_AYExofg
16 Dan No Kumite Uechi Ryu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nmt0tX7ZOo
17 Essential points of technique Uechi Ryui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvtSfVaByTU
Victor Smith
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MikeK
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Post by MikeK »

This is the kind of stuff I keep trying to show to the style Nazis. With time, these kata are talking to me in ways that the Okinawans - teaching a simple set of routines - hadn't at all communicated to us. But the lessons were there right in the kata - for the USERS to figure out.
But what happens if there's the possibility of a bad signal from the sender?
I'm not a Uechi expert by any stretch, but I did work two kata quite a bit and loved what to me were obvious, simple combative techniques (Kanshu & Seichin). Now my view of the applications of these kata are colored by my long time training partner, my training environment and to some extent by both Bill and Rich who always encouraged lively and practical applications.

I was viewing the vids that Victor linked and most were pretty vanilla (good, but nothing surprising). What did jump out at me were certain sections that I've really liked and seemed obvious to what was likely going on.

In the Kanshu bunkai at time marker 3:08 (hammer fist, chin strike, strike to solar plexus or nukite to armpit). Nice flow of strikes that should at least leave the opponent staggered. What got me was Senaga breaks these out and makes them into retreating movements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcw-u4nV8SY

I figured maybe it was just to show possibilities but then viewed Seichin and at 4:12( what I see is shove into wall or other sturdy object, elbow, strike, strike) and 7:17 it happens again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxWVRLbV25g

I see these as combos and also a tactical lessons, but Senaga breaks each out and even adds retreats that aren't in the kata. So are the retreats coded in Uechi kata for these kind of techniques, or is the transmission full of static giving an incorrect message?
I was dreaming of the past...
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Sorry, guys, but these websites which the files reside on really suk. I'm going to have to try to do the downloads in off hours or something.

For what it's worth... I don't do my kata EXACTLY like many of the films you have. In fact there are places (like the step after the third mawashiuke and supinated nukite in Kanshu) where the practitioner does a step that I would call "wrong." And I mean "wrong." Plus... there are many nuances that don't mean that much, but make watching someone else's way of doing something "interesting."

Hold tight. I'll comment when I can get at these files.

- Bill
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