Do you wish you were 18 again?

dmsdc · Post by **dmsdc** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 10:14 pm

I was looking to see if any new karate schools had opened near me in DC...this is the strange thing I found....Dana
http://www.budokaratehouse.com/
"Full Contact Japanese Karate
3-YEAR LIVE-IN PROGRAM
All expenses paid by the program!
You pay only blood, sweat & tears for room, board, and career Êopportunity. Warning! Ths program is NOT a vacation. Dormitory rules are very strict. Residents are confined to dormitory life for 1st year without vacation. Daily training is mandantory. Fighting is real. 1 of 10 will graduate. Ideal candidate is male, 17-23, and has little to lose and nothing to leave behind. Little or no martial arts experience preferred. No contract / no obligation / no catch / just ÊÊ100% dedication while in the program. Send $5 money order toÊbegin application process to:
PMB#170, 4410 Massachusetts Ave. NW,
Washington, DC 20016-5572; ÊAnd see our website at www.budokaratehouse.com

Need a new life or even a new, stronger you? This could be your answer.
Budo Karate House, a nonprofit corporation. "

Mary S · Post by **Mary S** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 10:30 pm

Dana, I must be getting leery in my old age (or maybe it's because I work in a law firm) but what sounds too good to be true, often is...

dmsdc · Post by **dmsdc** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 10:43 pm

I totally agree. The strange thing is that the address almost next door to my alma mater, American University.

This is a high-class residential part of DC...a strange place for such an endeavor.

Dana

Scott Danziger · Post by **Scott Danziger** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 10:44 pm

Without having visited the site yet... does the owner have one hand and an island a few miles off of Hong Kong? And is there a special "Invitation Only" tournament?

Post by **gmattson** » Mon Dec 04, 2000 11:57 pm

Important to read the fine print. In this case, it isn't fine print at all. They are very up-front about how they do this. The candidates work 5-6 hours a day and all the money goes to the operation! Not a bad deal.

Actually, it sounds more like a boot camp for youth who get into trouble. Except, here you can leave. Lots of 'makework' and non-martial art exercise. If they continue to maintain such high (tought) standards, they will get lots of very short-term participants.

Certainly a different marketing twist. I'm sure they will get lots of publicity and lots of kids who will try it out. At first I thought it was a Moonie cult ploy. They tried to get into the M.A. a few years ago, but decided we weren't very gullible as a group and went back to recruiting in airports.

Be sure to read the website. Interesting reading. And who knows, maybe they will let Rich join so they can say at least one person made it through the whole course!

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GEM

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Tue Dec 05, 2000 3:46 am

Nothing to loose?

Except maybe teeth.

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Allen, Home: http://www.ury2k.com/pulse mirror: http://home.ici.net/~uechi/

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Dec 05, 2000 7:21 pm

I thought I'd add a little more flavor here after much time reading the page.

Some folks in life know what to do, and some folks in life need to be told what to do. In the end, what product do you have? Who makes the best practitioner? Who makes the best instructor? Who makes the best innovator? Think about it.

I guess ultimately the program needs to fit the individual. Those who already are driven and are on a path should never consider subjecting themselves to a process that purports to know what is best, or that has an uncompromising approach to "the program."

The individuals they spoke of (persons #2 and #3) who could not hack the program wouldn't make it at any program that I can think of.

I hope Mr. Schwartz achieves his dreams, whatever they are. His success is largely due to his decision to get his life in order. He deserves much of the credit, but he was indeed a good match for this group.

A final few notes...

* The program has heavy emphasis on the development of extensor muscles, and under-training of the flexors. This is a classic problem with old-school training methods. When they end up with lots of hamstring injuries over time, they'll be wondering what the problem is. Modern day training methods are less about how much you can do, and more about how to get where you need to go as efficiently as possible. There are ways to test the body and the spirit without ever making it an ego contest. As I constantly remind my son, Don't work hard, work smart!

* Also, DON'T EAT RAW EGGS!!! It's dramatic, it's macho...and it's very stupid. Raw eggs have an enzyme called abidin that precipitates the biotin out of your food. Eating raw eggs is the only way you can end up with a biotin deficiency. It also increases the risk of getting serious food poisoning via salmonella. Perhaps the vomiting of one of the candidates had little to do with the training.

* Someone should be working on this guy's back posture during his knuckle pushups. You fight like you train. That posture will give him a very upper-body-oriented punching strength, as it would not support the transfer of significant energy from legs/hips to shoulders/arms. The quantity of the exercise often isn't anywhere near as important as the quality.

* So when you get someone like me with a little bit of knowledge walking into a program like this questioning the methods...you have a problem. It's best they train their way, and I encourage folks to do things my way.

* Finally...my easy days in the eighties (with graduate school and research work and teaching karate 8 hours a week and training 20 hours a week and averaging 3 to 5 hours of sleep a night...ALL NOT FOR PROFIT) sound a bit like some of the harder days of these folks. There is one important difference though - my program was totally self imposed. When I look at the greats around me (folks much greater than myself), I see a similar pattern. In the end, it isn't the program - it's the heart and desire of the individual.

Just my 2 cents (and obviously not my 2 yen).

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited December 05, 2000).]

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 5:03 am

This looks painfully familiar. I've been with groups like this; we had exchange students from Japan that essentially were on an identical track while the rest of us just suffered for the heck of it.

I found I could survive such a program, but to what end? I guess I have a stronger spirit for it (some have seen this in me...), but then maybe I had this in me all along and my experience only validated it. Perhaps the 1 in 10 process is less about instruction and more about selection bias.

I think these programs are best for a certain personality. I could never get over that sick feeling I had in my stomach all the time - feeling like things weren't quite right. I also begin to resent people with half my I.Q. having absolute authority over me.

To each his own. Some folks like the heavy discipline. I guess that's why there are always people out there supporting jerks like Bobby Knight.

- Bill

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 5:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

Ideal candidate is male, 17-23 ... Little or no martial arts experience preferred.

Think about it. Why would they prefer to avoid the contamination of outside knowledge, and why are they targeting this age group?

Thanks, but no thanks. Cult or no, I have little need for such people. Been there, done that... Those that pass the opportunity are missing nothing they can't find on their own.

- Bill

david · Post by **david** » Wed Dec 06, 2000 11:39 am

Hmmm... targeting 17-23 old with "nothing to loose." Sounds familiar... Sounds like the armed forces. The latter probably has more oversight. I wonder who is on the board of directors for the Budo House? It has to have one if it is a "non-profit."

Uchi-deshi (inner or live in students) are a part of traditional Japanese arts, though diminishing even in places where they originate. It's an opportunity for total immersion into a culture/practice. Cult-like? Yeah... It could be, especially when transferred over into a cultural milieu like ours which doesn't have the same traditional underpinning values on hierachy(?patriarchy), comformity, submission of the self to the group. The training perspective is not to discover something new, but to replicate the tradition and to emulate as perfectly as possible the founder's ideal. The founder is/was the "fountainhead" of the perfect. This is not the place of the "independent." Don't question. If you do, then you damn keep it to yourself. Perfectly fine if you grew in a society and culture that values folks who can do this with persistence and equanimity.

But we're not them and we judge from our own cultural values and perspectives. That's perfectly fine as long as we know we doing that.

I also think it is a good thing to examine why some folks not from that tradition wants to take that on and transplant it here. Because there is a chance for it to be misapplied or misused.

BTW, New York Aikikai, under Yamada sensei, used to or still has an Uchi-deshi program. Same with Homma sensei in Colorado. But these two were products themselves of Uchi-deshi programs in the Hombu dojo when O'Sensei was still alive. I believe I read somewhere where both acknowledged there were problems in transplanting such a program into the U.S.

david

MetaBaron · Post by **MetaBaron** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 12:37 am

This looks like a lawsuit just waiting to happen.
As for these dudes and thier dream?
I think theyare all total nutbars!
I think they will crank out psychotics more that Karateka.
8 weeks or boot camp was bad enough, but 3 to 5 years?
They have really gone off the deep end.
IMHO
-Meta

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If you overlook the Way right before your
eyes, how will you know the path beneath
your feet? Advancing has nothing to do with
near and far, yet delusion creates obstacles
high and wide. Students of the mystery, I
humbly urge you, don't waste a moment, night
or day!

- Shih-t'ou (700-790)

Brian Barry · Post by **Brian Barry** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 2:01 am

Sounds like old-time training... kinda like the Shaolin Temple. Live there, discipline yourself, do some work, study. Good training in principle, nearly impossible in America.

Post by **gmattson** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 2:28 pm

All the normal people will be filtered out and the nutcases will remain. I don't see the training to be all that tough. If you consider that the trainee must work outside the program for 4-6 hours, then undergo a couple hours of physically grueling exercises. Not much more than some students do in a regular dojo.

However, the segregation from society and the other mind games imposed on the students will drive 99% of the candidates away. The 1% will stay because of the challenge, not because of anything gotten out of the program.

There was no mention of any formal training and what was taught, appeared to be the kinds of things offered during basic training in the 'old' army.

Also note that nothing was mentioned of the teachers and their schedule. Or their qualification.

Basically a good idea, but not the way these people are doing it.

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GEM

MetaBaron · Post by **MetaBaron** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 3:37 pm

Yes, the grueling training sound like a challenge enough, but they kind of hinted
that the trainee will get the S**t kicked out of them on a daily basis.
The concept looks good on paper, but they should have a bit more detail on the
site, as you mentioned, the style of training, how they train, who the Senseis are,
their qualifications, etc. I seem to remember this kind of relationship exists in
Japan, with the formal arts such as Sumo, Geisha, karate, and so forth, but you
never know, these guys could be some masochists looking for abuse. My main
point being, what makes them qualified to give training, and do they have any
psychological training to separate what is productive training from just getting your
face pushed in?
-Meta

dmsdc · Post by **dmsdc** » Thu Dec 07, 2000 6:23 pm

It makes me very tempted to see if their application materials offer more info.

I'm sure this is just coincidence, but the budohouse is located about 1 block from the Japanese Embassy Residences Compound.

dana