Hello everyone,
Check out this web site, video gallery section. Real good push hand exercises from Goju-ryu karate as well as some cool kata applications. A lot of stuff is very similar to Uechi - same origin...
http://freespace.virgin.net/zsd.karate/indexl.html
Vladimir
Push Hands Videos
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Push Hands Videos
Vladimir
Very nice stuff. I know that George Mattson does push hands in his class. This looks a bit like freeform chi sao. I'm wondering what Jim (Shaolin) things of the short clip.
- Bill
Very nice stuff. I know that George Mattson does push hands in his class. This looks a bit like freeform chi sao. I'm wondering what Jim (Shaolin) things of the short clip.
- Bill
Push Hands Videos
Nice link, Vladmir,
It's the "flow" without the "breaking out."
david
It's the "flow" without the "breaking out."
david
Push Hands Videos
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
Vladimir
Very nice stuff. I know that George Mattson does push hands in his class. This looks a bit like freeform chi sao. I'm wondering what Jim (Shaolin) things of the short clip.
- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Bill,
Sorry, been busy last few days - no time to get on the board.
Not sure what to make of the clip. What they're doing appears different from WC Chi-Sao and I don't know what the objective of the exercise is exactly, so it's difficult to comment.
One difference, I think, between this kind of sticking hands, (also from Tai-Chi push hands) vs. WC Chi-Sao is that in Chi-Sao the stated objectives is to control the Centerline, not to ‘chase hands’. So in this respect the drill may be a bit different.
At the heart of Chi-Sao is the objective to take advantage of any imperfection in the partner’s defense, e.g. if his energy is leaving the Centerline. Sticking, without chasing hands in WC means that if your partner issues energy that takes his hand/or your hand off the line, say to the side, up or down, the player is not supposed to follow his hand - we say in this case that our partner is disengaging. Like a hockey goalie that leaves the net - we don't follow him, instead we shoot the puck at the, now free goal. This follows the WC idiom 'free hand shoots forward'. So if he leaves the Centerline our hand should remain on the line, or circle back to the line and shoot forward with a Centerline attack and follow-ups. This intentionally narrows the study in Chi-Sao to that of occupying the Centerline and its use in attack and defense.
Jim
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
Vladimir
Very nice stuff. I know that George Mattson does push hands in his class. This looks a bit like freeform chi sao. I'm wondering what Jim (Shaolin) things of the short clip.
- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Bill,
Sorry, been busy last few days - no time to get on the board.
Not sure what to make of the clip. What they're doing appears different from WC Chi-Sao and I don't know what the objective of the exercise is exactly, so it's difficult to comment.
One difference, I think, between this kind of sticking hands, (also from Tai-Chi push hands) vs. WC Chi-Sao is that in Chi-Sao the stated objectives is to control the Centerline, not to ‘chase hands’. So in this respect the drill may be a bit different.
At the heart of Chi-Sao is the objective to take advantage of any imperfection in the partner’s defense, e.g. if his energy is leaving the Centerline. Sticking, without chasing hands in WC means that if your partner issues energy that takes his hand/or your hand off the line, say to the side, up or down, the player is not supposed to follow his hand - we say in this case that our partner is disengaging. Like a hockey goalie that leaves the net - we don't follow him, instead we shoot the puck at the, now free goal. This follows the WC idiom 'free hand shoots forward'. So if he leaves the Centerline our hand should remain on the line, or circle back to the line and shoot forward with a Centerline attack and follow-ups. This intentionally narrows the study in Chi-Sao to that of occupying the Centerline and its use in attack and defense.
Jim
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
Push Hands Videos
John,
It's really tough to learn Chi-Sao from a video - maybe impossible, you also need the forms as a base to do Chi-Sao. Are there any people in your area that could teach you Chi-Sao? Where are you located?
If you really want videos then out of respect for my Late Sifu I would suggest his:
http://www.kungfu-videos.com/order_videos.html
Also, from another member of the family here:
http://shop.vtmuseum.org/shop.cgi/page=index.htm
If I can be of further assistance let me know.
Jim
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited April 27, 2002).]
It's really tough to learn Chi-Sao from a video - maybe impossible, you also need the forms as a base to do Chi-Sao. Are there any people in your area that could teach you Chi-Sao? Where are you located?
If you really want videos then out of respect for my Late Sifu I would suggest his:
http://www.kungfu-videos.com/order_videos.html
Also, from another member of the family here:
http://shop.vtmuseum.org/shop.cgi/page=index.htm
If I can be of further assistance let me know.
Jim
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited April 27, 2002).]
-
Traveler in the Arts
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 6:01 am
Push Hands Videos
Jim,
Thanks for your reply and the links. If you compare the Zen Shorin Do videos found at Vladimir's orginial link (above) then it appears that there is maybe a bit too much "following" as you point out, as opposed to the video clips on your sifu's site, http://www.kungfu-videos.com/Chi_Sao_3_video.html#samples, each of which ends in a strike when the centerline opens up. This is one part of your description that particularly caught my interest, since when I first viewed the Zen Shorin Do videos my impression was that at various points in their drills one or the other person was open for a strike, instead they seem to be possibly more interested in setting up various joint locks, etc.
Anyway, it's the direct fighting application of the drill that I'm interested in.
My current instructor (5 months) teaches Kenpo/wushu and probably knows a version of Chi-Sao. I'll ask him next week.
Thanks again,
John
[This message has been edited by Traveler in the Arts (edited April 27, 2002).]
Thanks for your reply and the links. If you compare the Zen Shorin Do videos found at Vladimir's orginial link (above) then it appears that there is maybe a bit too much "following" as you point out, as opposed to the video clips on your sifu's site, http://www.kungfu-videos.com/Chi_Sao_3_video.html#samples, each of which ends in a strike when the centerline opens up. This is one part of your description that particularly caught my interest, since when I first viewed the Zen Shorin Do videos my impression was that at various points in their drills one or the other person was open for a strike, instead they seem to be possibly more interested in setting up various joint locks, etc.
Anyway, it's the direct fighting application of the drill that I'm interested in.
My current instructor (5 months) teaches Kenpo/wushu and probably knows a version of Chi-Sao. I'll ask him next week.
Thanks again,
John
[This message has been edited by Traveler in the Arts (edited April 27, 2002).]
Push Hands Videos
A useful drill that I had mentioned to Bill in another post is the non-classical Centerline punch drill. Some WC schools use this drill and I think some JKD also use variations of this.
WC allows us to take certain parts of the system and drill them. This is one of those drills. I think any system can benefit from this if they have some focus on Centerline use in the system.
Here is essence of the drill, use face gear or use light or no contact, either is okay when starting - the focus should be on proper energy and position not bashing the other guy's face in. Start easy, low energy, slow and build:
1. Two students face off in fighting stance, square shoulders preferred.
2. Distance can be closer but generally 1 step should be needed for either to get 'in'.
3. On the instructors command they both step* in and shoot a lead straight punch from the Center to the other's upper Center e.g. nose, while keeping guard high or in the Center.
* The step can be either straight at the opponent or with an angle. Using the angulation step will require the opponent to change his facing and track the opponent in order to maintain control of the line.
4. The punch must be done with the elbow under the punch for this to work and control the line.
5. The energy can also be varied.
What happens is multi-level.
This trains some of the following:
1. How to use attack and defense in the same tool.
2. How to control the line with the elbow.
3. How to issue forward energy.
4. How to take the line with superior position.
5. How to bridge (stick) from outside.
6. How to track the Center.
7. How to enter safely.
For those who don't know the drill: These two punches have the ability to cancel each other out.
In this drill there are roughly three variations:
1. The student with superior Centerline position and energy 'cuts' the tool of the other and scores on the line (nose).
2. The student moves the line with an angle step and controls the line with little or no 'cutting' and scores on the line (nose)
3. The students both have good position and energy and there is a clash, e.g. stalemate.
This is the first level of the drill. In the next level the students can use obstruction removal methods to move beyond the stalemate of 'clash'. When there is a clash and stalemate one can use a Pak Da, which 'slaps' the opponent's bridge into the line clearing it and immediately punches. In another variation the attacker can grab the obstruction and jerk it down and into the line and attack, etc. At this level many techniques and counters can be introduced.
Hope someone finds this useful. I think this drill can be very useful for developing all sorts of Centerline concepts, regardless of style.
Jim
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited April 27, 2002).]
WC allows us to take certain parts of the system and drill them. This is one of those drills. I think any system can benefit from this if they have some focus on Centerline use in the system.
Here is essence of the drill, use face gear or use light or no contact, either is okay when starting - the focus should be on proper energy and position not bashing the other guy's face in. Start easy, low energy, slow and build:
1. Two students face off in fighting stance, square shoulders preferred.
2. Distance can be closer but generally 1 step should be needed for either to get 'in'.
3. On the instructors command they both step* in and shoot a lead straight punch from the Center to the other's upper Center e.g. nose, while keeping guard high or in the Center.
* The step can be either straight at the opponent or with an angle. Using the angulation step will require the opponent to change his facing and track the opponent in order to maintain control of the line.
4. The punch must be done with the elbow under the punch for this to work and control the line.
5. The energy can also be varied.
What happens is multi-level.
This trains some of the following:
1. How to use attack and defense in the same tool.
2. How to control the line with the elbow.
3. How to issue forward energy.
4. How to take the line with superior position.
5. How to bridge (stick) from outside.
6. How to track the Center.
7. How to enter safely.
For those who don't know the drill: These two punches have the ability to cancel each other out.
In this drill there are roughly three variations:
1. The student with superior Centerline position and energy 'cuts' the tool of the other and scores on the line (nose).
2. The student moves the line with an angle step and controls the line with little or no 'cutting' and scores on the line (nose)
3. The students both have good position and energy and there is a clash, e.g. stalemate.
This is the first level of the drill. In the next level the students can use obstruction removal methods to move beyond the stalemate of 'clash'. When there is a clash and stalemate one can use a Pak Da, which 'slaps' the opponent's bridge into the line clearing it and immediately punches. In another variation the attacker can grab the obstruction and jerk it down and into the line and attack, etc. At this level many techniques and counters can be introduced.
Hope someone finds this useful. I think this drill can be very useful for developing all sorts of Centerline concepts, regardless of style.
Jim
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited April 27, 2002).]
-
Traveler in the Arts
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2001 6:01 am
Push Hands Videos
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shaolin:
At the heart of Chi-Sao is the objective to take advantage of any imperfection in the partner’s defense, e.g. if his energy is leaving the Centerline. Sticking, without chasing hands in WC means that if your partner issues energy that takes his hand/or your hand off the line, say to the side, up or down, the player is not supposed to follow his hand - we say in this case that our partner is disengaging. Like a hockey goalie that leaves the net - we don't follow him, instead we shoot the puck at the, now free goal. This follows the WC idiom 'free hand shoots forward'. So if he leaves the Centerline our hand should remain on the line, or circle back to the line and shoot forward with a Centerline attack and follow-ups. This intentionally narrows the study in Chi-Sao to that of occupying the Centerline and its use in attack and defense.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jim--I'd really like to learn the WC version of Chi-Sao that you describe. Can you recommend a high quality video I can purchase somewhere?
Thanks,
John
At the heart of Chi-Sao is the objective to take advantage of any imperfection in the partner’s defense, e.g. if his energy is leaving the Centerline. Sticking, without chasing hands in WC means that if your partner issues energy that takes his hand/or your hand off the line, say to the side, up or down, the player is not supposed to follow his hand - we say in this case that our partner is disengaging. Like a hockey goalie that leaves the net - we don't follow him, instead we shoot the puck at the, now free goal. This follows the WC idiom 'free hand shoots forward'. So if he leaves the Centerline our hand should remain on the line, or circle back to the line and shoot forward with a Centerline attack and follow-ups. This intentionally narrows the study in Chi-Sao to that of occupying the Centerline and its use in attack and defense.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jim--I'd really like to learn the WC version of Chi-Sao that you describe. Can you recommend a high quality video I can purchase somewhere?
Thanks,
John
-
jorvik
Push Hands Videos
im very impressed by zen shorindo, and i contacted them. their basic philosophy is that the kung fu practised by shaolin monks has been misrepresnted, that it was in fact not a fighting system at all but a dynamic form of meditation, hence there are no punches or kicks practised in this art. all this is laid out in a book written by the founder of the system, nathan johnson the book is called "barefoot zen", and is a good read.Nathans original art was wing-chun and some of the people that he taught have followed in his footsteps but still practising wing chun, this again is a none violent method. they produce videos and a booklet. ive just bought the first video and im very,very impressed. for one thing its good quality, and for another its cheap. it cost me £10, usually a video like this would cost £25, and here in the uk wing chun is known as a bit of a rip-off martial art, with people chargeing ridiculous prices for instruction.
they are called " the buddhist way of wing chun kung fu.check them out
they are called " the buddhist way of wing chun kung fu.check them out
